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Inside F5J Electric Glider Wing Servo Options


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If your tx is this one.... https://www.spektrumrc.com/product/dx6e-6-channel-dsmx-transmitter-only/SPMR6655.html.  you have the capacity for 3 flight modes on one switch, plus coupled rudder and ailerons if you want.

 

So although you won't have ultimate flexibility to extract every single drop of performance, I don't think you HAVE to buy a new set to enjoy the model.

 

Any radio with full, proper, OpenTX (preferably EdgeTX) will liberate lots of additional capacity...... (I mean one that doesn't have 'cut down' functionality like Flysky OS)......but you'd need a receiver capable of having each servo controlled individually - at least 9 for the model in question.  So if you do jump from Spektrum, that's additional cost to be factored in for that extra performance.

 

As to what to buy, it depends on your budget...... ask 10 forumites and you'll get 11 answers!

 

P.S. I don't fly complex gliders but love EdgeTX.....

Edited by GrumpyGnome
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7 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said:

If your tx is this one.... https://www.spektrumrc.com/product/dx6e-6-channel-dsmx-transmitter-only/SPMR6655.html.  you have the capacity for 3 flight modes on one switch, plus coupled rudder and ailerons if you want.

 

So although you won't have ultimate flexibility to extract every single drop of performance, I don't think you HAVE to buy a new set to enjoy the model.

 

Any radio with full, proper, OpenTX (preferably EdgeTX) will liberate lots of additional capacity...... (I mean one that doesn't have 'cut down' functionality like Flysky OS)......but you'd need a receiver capable of having each servo controlled individually - at least 9 for the model in question.  So if you do jump from Spektrum, that's additional cost to be factored in for that extra performance.

 

As to what to buy, it depends on your budget...... ask 10 forumites and you'll get 11 answers!

 

Grumpy,

 

Just taken a photo of my Spectrum DX6e transmitter box, so looks like I will be ok for 3 flight modes on one switch, plus with the coupled rudder and ailerons.

 

If I don't really need to buy a new transmitter then this will be great of course saving money, but near the time I'm sure I will need more help in setting up two extract every single drop of performance.

 

So if I do jump from the Spectrum what would you suggest?

 

 

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It really does depend on your willingness to spend I think.

 

Anything with 'full fat' EdgeTX will give you all the functionality you will need regarding mixes. 

 

I find the Radiomaster RX16 an excellent transmitter, fitted with a 4in1 module, you can use many different brands of receiver. But initially, it does feel a bit 'cheap' (not surprising as it's around £200)

 

I previously had a Taranis X9D with an external 4in1 module, which felt nicer, but I found the colour touchscreen more useful on the Radiomaster.

 

Having held a chum's FrSky X20, I'd love one but they're 3 times the cost if my Radiomaster.

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This is going to be a bit difficult as nothing is clear cut.

 

I love the power I had in the FrSky X9E running OpenTX. As OpenTX and EdgeTX are open source I like the speed of updates but I didn't like that so many of the update were to fix issues rather than significant functionality improvement.

Later FrSky hired a real programer from Airbus that knew how to structure life critical programs. This can now be seen in the stability of Ethos.

 

Key to today's radio power is the Operating System OS. This is what I think separates the different radio brands. I don't see a nickels difference between the JR, Spektrum and Futaba offerings (I haven't look closely in 5 years). To my mind that leaves those brands, EdgeTX and Ethos. I strongly recommend you spend some time on the site that supports these OSs and get a feel for their strong and weak points.

 

Now as I don't know your background I'm not going to recommend anything. other to say I wouldn't recommend that anybody try any new OS with as complicated a programing requirement as a 9 channel glider. Start simple and work your way up.

 

I think Grumpy has said that the XD6e should have the power to do most (80%) of what you want. 

 

Now I use FrSky because I have little faith in the engineering house that is Radiomaster. (This is me and a subject for another thread). I like that FrSky is heavy into dual band RF protocols. With the floor (noise) in the 2.4gHz band getting so noisy I have lost all faith in most RF protocols. I'm now flying almost excessively on 900mHz and 2.4gHz (FrSky Tandem radios) for this reason. I recently purchased a glider that has a non-2.4 gHz fuselage (all carbon) where I'll be experimenting with dual band 2.4GHz system (FrSky twin).

 

All new FrSky radios support 24 ch.

At the budget level I like this FrSky X14 radio. 

https://alofthobbies.com/collections/transmitters/products/frsky-twin-x14

This RX should allow you to use all your servos without the need for an S-Bus converter

https://alofthobbies.com/collections/frsky-twin/products/frsky-tw-gr8-1

 

My main radio is this one FrSky X18

https://alofthobbies.com/collections/transmitters/products/frsky-tandem-x18

 

At the fields I fly we are see a large move to Powerbox, Jeti and FrSky. We are seeing a lot fewer new Spektrum radios. 

 

You didn't mention servo protocol. I'm fast moving to HV S-Bus and F-Bus servos for the flexibility and telemetry they offer. (Just something to think about for the future) I only use PWM servos in my ARFs. 

https://alofthobbies.com/collections/servos?pf_t_manufacturer=manufacturer%3Afrsky

 

Now to make matters more confusing I'm using Mike Shellim's F3F-8s  templet on my 6 servo wing 4 meter glider this is driving me to use my X9E running OpenTX. Mike has yet to offer a 6 servo wing  templet for Ethos. So while it is very doable it is not an entry level programing exercise to add the center ailerons to the 4 servo Ethos templet. So if you purchase the new Frsky radios you will be a bit ahead of the power curve as there isn't a templet to support your 8 servo glider.

https://rc-soar.com/edgetx/setups/variants/index.php

https://rc-soar.com/ethos/

 

As to the motor question. Most folks use the "throttle stick" for full proportional control of the flap/crow. I use a slider for full proportional control of the motor.

 

Now I know I said I wouldn't make a recommendation, but here goes. Try to get the most you can with your Spektrum radio. it will only cost you time and some glider performance. But start looking at a replacement. I think you will find it hard to look past the power flexibility and value that is FrSky.

 

All the best,

 

Konrad

 

P.S.

I hate the 4in1 module. Again a subject for another thread

 

 

 

 

Edited by Konrad
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If you want to stay with Spektrum then the NX7e or higher have the 4 aileron/2 flap option in sailplane mode. The NX7e is a more basic set like the DX6e but, despite its name, has 14 channels so will cover all the requirements for your model and is available for around £250.

 

You may also want to look at the NX8 which has better features and is generally considered the best value transmitter in the NX range; you can pick them up for around £330. The latest software update actually gives you 20 channels to play with.

 

Either way you will need a 10-channel receiver to provide all the servo outputs you need for 4 aileron, 2 flap, motor, rudder & elevator. Using 2 separate outputs for the flap servos negates the need for an electronic reverser in the line (not recommended by Spektrum) or physically swapping one of the servos over.

 

Or stick with what you've got and follow Jonathan M's advice regarding y-leads, differential settings and throws - it's certainly the cheapest and most straightforward option. You could always upgrade at a later date when you have flown the model and figured out whether your radio is a limiting factor for how you want to fly.

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On 20/12/2024 at 19:05, Jonathan M said:

 

Actually you'll be absolutely fine with the DX6e.  Its features, according to the sales blurb below, will give you everything you need:

 

SAILPLANE PROGRAMMING

  • 4 Wing Types: Single Aileron, Dual Aileron, 2 Aileron 1 Flap, 2 Aileron 2 Flap
  • 3 Tail Types: Normal, V-Tail A, V-Tail B
  • Camber System
  • Camber Preset
  • 5 Flight Modes
  • Dual Rates and Expo
  • Dual Rates and Expo
  • 4 Preset Mixes: Aileron-to-Rudder, Aileron-to-Flap, Elevator-to-Flap, Flap-to-Elevator
  • 4 Programmable Mixes – Normal or Curve

You'll have to study the manual to work out exactly how to do it, but by using y-leads you're effectively 2 Aileron 1 Flap, then just follow the programming instructions to set up your three basic flight modes (Speed, Cruise, Thermal) with camber pre-sets for each (see the Inside instructions etc).  The other two flight modes are no doubt Launch (i.e. motor) and Landing (i.e. flaps, with elevator compensation).  It is usual to have flaps on the throttle stick (forward=none, down=full) with throttle on a slider or on another 3-way switch (OFF, HALF, FULL) but this will depend on what your DX6e allows.

 

You might have a choice of which 3-way switch to allocate for the main three flight modes, or this might be fixed?  The main flight mode switches on my Tx are on the left hand above the throttle stick.  Your Tx will probably also have sounds built in (?) so that when you select for e.g. Thermal mode it'll speak "Thermal" etc.

 

So it'll all be quite doable on your existing equipment.  If you wish to make the move now to OpenTX or Ethos (its replacement) then be prepared for a fairly steep learning curve.  If you find yourself doing a lot of thermal soaring in the longer term, then switching over would probably be a good idea, BUT for the time being I'd say you've got enough on your plate getting this model completed and then spending the next season getting to know it and thermal soaring techniques etc.  Later you can switch if you still want to.

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

Need to have a good look at the manual for sure and see how easy or not it maybe to start setting everything up correctly, even though you say my DX6e is durable, have also been looking at the 20-channel NX8+, would this be a better option to go for or just stick with the DX6e for the time being.

 

I have also been doing some testing / experimenting with the Etronx Sercon Master servo tester, I have a number of Y leads and also Y lead with 4 connectors, connected all 4 aileron servos and all work as suggested, ie, both left and both right ailerons work and move in the right direction which is good to know. Still need to do a little more work to complete the wing setup, but before I start covering will make sure all leads are correctly fitted, and of course take any advice given, which is a great help indeed.

 

Thank you.

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22 hours ago, Nick Cripps said:

If you want to stay with Spektrum then the NX7e or higher have the 4 aileron/2 flap option in sailplane mode. The NX7e is a more basic set like the DX6e but, despite its name, has 14 channels so will cover all the requirements for your model and is available for around £250.

 

You may also want to look at the NX8 which has better features and is generally considered the best value transmitter in the NX range; you can pick them up for around £330. The latest software update actually gives you 20 channels to play with.

 

Either way you will need a 10-channel receiver to provide all the servo outputs you need for 4 aileron, 2 flap, motor, rudder & elevator. Using 2 separate outputs for the flap servos negates the need for an electronic reverser in the line (not recommended by Spektrum) or physically swapping one of the servos over.

 

Or stick with what you've got and follow Jonathan M's advice regarding y-leads, differential settings and throws - it's certainly the cheapest and most straightforward option. You could always upgrade at a later date when you have flown the model and figured out whether your radio is a limiting factor for how you want to fly.

 

Hi Nick,

 

I'm also currently looking at the 20-channel NX8+ which looks great, a much better option than the DX6e that I currently have.

 

If I do go for the NX8+, will I still need to use Y leads?

Edited by DG1000M
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12 hours ago, DG1000M said:

...have also been looking at the 20-channel NX8+, would this be a better option to go for or just stick with the DX6e for the time being.

 

I think the NX8+ would be the perfect compromise.  You are already familiar with the Spektrum 'ecosystem', and this will avoid the steep learning-curve of moving over to equipment that runs on OpenTX or its successor programs.  

 

As Nick points out above, the extra two channels means that you'll have full independent control of each of the four ailerons which is ideal.  The only surfaces that would remain on Y-leads are the flaps, which is fine as in this model they are intended as pure flaps only and not secondary inboard ailerons (as they would be on a two aileron wing).

 

Your aim is to get the model complete and flying as your first full-house thermal soarer (I assume).  You'll have enough to do learning to operate it in its different flight modes (launch, speed, cruise, thermal, landing), learning to read the conditions (the pattern of lift and sink at any given time at a particular location, where thermals are being generated, how long between cycles, etc), and learning to read what air the model is encountering at altitude (lift, sink or neutral) by observing its change in behaviour - without the extra workload of an unfamiliar brand's more complex operating system!

 

Edited by Jonathan M
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Re servo extension wires and plugs, plan this carefully before you proceed!

 

The instructions (see Hyperflight link to manual) assume the builder will make up their own extension wires and will solder up 8-pin Multiplex connector plugs at the wing-fuselage join, etc according to the diagram below.  You can instead get away with just using off-the-peg servo wire extensions instead (not as neat and it'll all weigh a bit more because you'll have more wiring in the wing than ideal) but you'll have a lot of 3-pin plugs to connect up, so make sure everything is very clearly marked - and do a full test on the ground each time before flying!

 

1779849530_Screenshot2024-12-22at10_13_53.thumb.png.6e11e879d960a35979eb96fd59af619b.png

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On 20/12/2024 at 23:36, Nick Cripps said:

Either way you will need a 10-channel receiver to provide all the servo outputs you need for 4 aileron, 2 flap, motor, rudder & elevator. Using 2 separate outputs for the flap servos negates the need for an electronic reverser in the line (not recommended by Spektrum) or physically swapping one of the servos over.

 

Looks like at the moment I'm going to go with the NX8+, what 10 channel receiver is best to provide all the servo outputs that I will need, 4 aileron, 2 flap, motor, rudder, elevator?

 

Also doing some other research on other transmitters that have been suggested, but at the moment I'm going for the NX8+, unless anyone has any other advice.

 

Edited by DG1000M
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21 hours ago, Nick Cripps said:

No need for y-leads if you use the 4 aileron, 2 flap option in sailplane mode. You will be able to connect each of the wing servos to its own output channel on the receiver and be able to set sub-trim, travel and reverse (if required) in this mode.

 

You can find the manual here.

 

Thank you for the link to the NX8+ manual, slowly having a read through it, I'm sure I will have some questions later, and try and point them in the right direction.

 

Ok, just need to make sure that I have enough extension lead to reach the receiver.

 

Edited by DG1000M
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10 hours ago, Jonathan M said:

 

I think the NX8+ would be the perfect compromise.  You are already familiar with the Spektrum 'ecosystem', and this will avoid the steep learning-curve of moving over to equipment that runs on OpenTX or its successor programs.  

 

As Nick points out above, the extra two channels means that you'll have full independent control of each of the four ailerons which is ideal.  The only surfaces that would remain on Y-leads are the flaps, which is fine as in this model they are intended as pure flaps only and not secondary inboard ailerons (as they would be on a two aileron wing).

 

Your aim is to get the model complete and flying as your first full-house thermal soarer (I assume).  You'll have enough to do learning to operate it in its different flight modes (launch, speed, cruise, thermal, landing), learning to read the conditions (the pattern of lift and sink at any given time at a particular location, where thermals are being generated, how long between cycles, etc), and learning to read what air the model is encountering at altitude (lift, sink or neutral) by observing its change in behaviour - without the extra workload of an unfamiliar brand's more complex operating system!

 

 

Thank you.

 

I'm sure that once I have ordered the NX8+ and when it arrives will have some questions on setup and advice from Nick which has been helpful.

 

Yes the aim is to get the model complete and flying as this will be my first full-house thermal soarer.

 

The way I look at things, is everyday is a learning day, always some new to learn.

 

 

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1 hour ago, DG1000M said:

 

Looks like at the moment I'm going to go with the NX8+, what 10 channel receiver is best to provide all the servo outputs that I will need, 4 aileron, 2 flap, motor, rudder, elevator?

 

Also doing some other research on other transmitters that have been suggested, but at the moment I'm going for the NX8+, unless anyone has any other advice.

 

I'm sure you will be happy with the NX8+.

 

Let me turn the tables on you and ask why you went with a radio that is a single band RF protocol, the price of comparable RX is close to 1.5 times that of the ones I recommended. And with Ethos you have many of the canned mixes already set up. The X14 is a 24 channel TX for about $100 less. As for quality I and about 1/2 the turbine and glider pilots I fly with have been making the switch from Spektum, for the last 10 years.

 

I assume you only have one or two planes on the DX6e. I'm looking for why you think the Spektrum is the radio to build the future on. 

I ask as I recommend to my students the FrSky brand as it has to my thinking the better value TX & RX, RF durability (Tandem and Twin) and programing flexability (Ethos). Half of my studends do make the switch even if they started out in the "Spektrum ecosystem" with the UMX and Apprentice BNF modes. 

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On the subject of servo set up do think about the use of override springs on your first flapped (crow) glider. For a long time I was slow to retract the flaps on landing and was suffering stripped servo gears. These push rods solved most of the damage from my slow reaction.

 

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18 minutes ago, Konrad said:

I'm sure you will be happy with the NX8+.

 

Let me turn the tables on you and ask why you went with a radio that is a single band RF protocol, the price of comparable RX is close to 1.5 times that of the ones I recommended. And with Ethos you have many of the canned mixes already set up. The X14 is a 24 channel TX for about $100 less. As for quality I and about 1/2 the turbine and glider pilots I fly with have been making the switch from Spektum, for the last 10 years.

 

I assume you only have one or two planes on the DX6e. I'm looking for why you think the Spektrum is the radio to build the future on. 

I ask as I recommend to my students the FrSky brand as it has to my thinking the better value TX & RX, RF durability (Tandem and Twin) and programing flexability (Ethos). Half of my studends do make the switch even if they started out in the "Spektrum ecosystem" with the UMX and Apprentice BNF modes. 

 

Just like Spectrum with it's features, even though it maybe single band RF protocol.

 

Yes that's correct 2 planes on the DX6e.

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1 hour ago, DG1000M said:

Looks like at the moment I'm going to go with the NX8+, what 10 channel receiver is best to provide all the servo outputs that I will need, 4 aileron, 2 flap, motor, rudder, elevator?

 

I stated 10 channels as Spektrum don't produce a 9 channel receiver so the cheapest option available currently is the AR10100T. There's no benefit to spending more on a AS3X/SAFE receiver such as the AR10360T as you want the glider to respond to air movements to help you identify thermals.

 

If you choose to y-lead the flaps then you can get away with only 8 channels meaning you could use the cheaper AR8020T receiver.

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15 minutes ago, DG1000M said:

 

Just like Spectrum with it's features, even though it maybe single band RF protocol.

 

Yes that's correct 2 planes on the DX6e.

What are those AS3X, SAFE?

 

I too agree that you don't want gyros on a glider as the upset is what signals lift.

Edited by Konrad
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@DG1000M I'm not going to try and dissuade you from staying Spektrum - fine radios. Used to he a Spektrum flier myself, and they're still the most popular sets at my club.  

 

Can I suggest before pressing the 'buy' button, or even handing over cash in person in a real model shop (I remember that!), you have a look at the Mike Shellim templates and see if the NX8+ will allow you to achieve the same, or similar (looking on various forums, lots of people seem to like what the templates allow). If so, happy days! If not, at least you'll understand what you can and can't do, and whether you feel that's important, before committing. You may well have already done this of course......!

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9 hours ago, Konrad said:

Let me turn the tables on you and ask why you went with a radio that is a single band RF protocol...?

 

[...]

 

Half of my students do make the switch even if they started out in the "Spektrum ecosystem"...

 

Konrad, give the guy a break please.  My view is that he's obviously feeling his way into territory with lots that is already new to him (read from the top of the thread) and has enough on his plate without having to get his head around a vastly more complicated radio system.  This can come later if he likes, once he's got more experience.

 

I spent some years with Spektrum (power, slope and thermal) until I made the switch to OpenTx.  I much prefer it for its almost total flexibility and especially Mike Shellim's templates for soaring, BUT it is a major step up and took me a long time to fully understand and get the basic programming right for my own range of models.  Despite their limitations, the reason why Spektrum or Futaba etc are popular amongst ordinary fliers is because of their relative ease of use.

 

I've taught several people to fly, on top of a career spent teaching technical skills to adults:  one has to build firm understanding and confidence through practice at every stage from the foundations up.  Throwing advanced stuff into the mix too early on just confuses things and impedes progress.

 

It seems to me that, if the OP can get away with the 9 channel Spektrum equipment for this model, then his familiarity with the brand will help him make faster progress at this stage.

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On 20/12/2024 at 18:55, DG1000M said:

 

Devon Slopes,

 

Thank you for your reply, looks like there is a lot of information that will be useful.

 

Looking at other posts, looks like I need to look for another transmitter, but making sure that I make a good choice, and what people recommend and why.

 

When you say couple the rudder with ailerons guessing this of course will depend on what new transmitter that I go for?

DG1000M,

 

what I was referring to here is that when you move the aileron stick, the rudder also moves such that both the ailerons and the rudder are trying to turn the model in the same direction.  (Obviously its important you get the direction right, if you are unsure run it past someone you fly with.) You can see this mentioned in the DX6e manual on page 36, where it is referred to as "aileron to rudder".  On my Inside f5J I have the mix such that at full aileron, the rudder moves about 45mm.

 

Devon.

 

 

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