Richard Thornton 2 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Afternoon all. I have been toying with purchasing a DIY Hobbyist related laser cutter and I know there must be several pits to fall into so thought I would ask you like minded folks. There are loads of options but I think I may have narrowed it down to an ATOMSTACK PRO20, which seems to have the ability to cut rather than be an engraver that can cut. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 I started out with a Sculfun diode laser and it was brilliant, and great value for money. I have now got an Omtech Pronto which is somewhat bigger!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 I also (didn't) started out with the Sculpfun diode laser, having been inspired by Ron's ITAT video on the BMFA. A year later I still haven't actually cut anything, but I did test the laser out for the first time just the other day and hope to get cutting very soon. The works to the hangar earlier this year postponed the operational debut of the laser cutter, but it's all back in place now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thornton 2 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Ron Gray said: I started out with a Sculfun diode laser and it was brilliant, and great value for money. I have now got an Omtech Pronto which is somewhat bigger!!! That’s very interesting Ron, I did look at some on their website but when I looked deeper into it, Amazon had a note saying, “frequently returned item”. Thing is, you can’t always rely on these reviews as folks buy something that’s not suited to their requirements and one of the reviews was written by someone that could clearly not read the instructions! Hence asking on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thornton 2 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, leccyflyer said: I also (didn't) started out with the Sculpfun diode laser, having been inspired by Ron's ITAT video on the BMFA. A year later I still haven't actually cut anything, but I did test the laser out for the first time just the other day and hope to get cutting very soon. The works to the hangar earlier this year postponed the operational debut of the laser cutter, but it's all back in place now. Evening Leccyflier. Thank you too for the response. I will try and track down the video you have mentioned before making a plunge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Richard - Ron;s videos are in ITAT Season 2 https://itat-forum.bmfa.uk/topicid/81 Which was TWO years ago, so my laser remains unused after TWO years, not one - how did that happen? 😮 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thornton 2 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 13 minutes ago, leccyflyer said: Richard - Ron;s videos are in ITAT Season 2 https://itat-forum.bmfa.uk/topicid/81 Which was TWO years ago, so my laser remains unused after TWO years, not one - how did that happen? 😮 Don’t start me on that. I wrote in pencil on the plans of the model I am still building, no it’s not the only model I have built over the years, but it does remain my favourite, unfinished model, 18 years in the making…… gawdinbenit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thornton 2 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 1 minute ago, Richard Thornton 2 said: Don’t start me on that. I wrote in pencil on the plans of the model I am still building, no it’s not the only model I have built over the years, but it does remain my favourite, unfinished model, 18 years in the making…… gawdinbenit On a serious note Leccyflyer, thanks for the link, just watched it and now I have more questions. I didn’t get on with fusion 360 as I have been using AutoCAD for years BUT Ron’s video has highlighted both the laser cutter AND fusion 360. This is why I really appreciate this FORUM. THANKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) You don’t have to use Fusion, any software that can produce the designs that you want and can export (DXF) for Lightburn (or other) to pickup and send to the laser cutter will do. I just happen to like using Fusion! Of course you can just use Lightburn but, for me, it’s only good for basic designs. Edited June 17 by Ron Gray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thornton 2 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 26 minutes ago, Ron Gray said: You don’t have to use Fusion, any software that can produce the designs that you want and can export (DXF) for Lightburn (or other) to pickup and send to the laser cutter will do. I just happen to like using Fusion! Of course you can just use Lightburn but, for me, it’s only good for basic designs. Fusion 360 is a seriously powerful tool but I struggled with it as I couldn’t get my head around the logic of it. I get on with AutoCAD, but have only just started working in 3D. I have been drawing a Martin Baker Mk4 in AutoCAD, trying to learn to discipline of the Z axis. I am hoping that this will assist with talking Fusion again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepeiro Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 I got myself an xtool s1 20 watt diode. I love it, it’s great but if I didn’t have a three year old running around the house I would have opted for something cheaper or bigger with less safety features. gotta think of not burning out those young eyeballs! they are a lot of fun but you can spend a lot of time designing and less time building Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thornton 2 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 48 minutes ago, shepeiro said: I got myself an xtool s1 20 watt diode. I love it, it’s great but if I didn’t have a three year old running around the house I would have opted for something cheaper or bigger with less safety features. gotta think of not burning out those young eyeballs! they are a lot of fun but you can spend a lot of time designing and less time building Ha, that made me laugh. We recently had a visit from 3 children, 2 lads, 7 and 3, one lads, 18 months and I spent 3 hours, collecting tools that came with “what’s this for? Trying to get to the electric tools that were still plugged in before the ‘on’ button was pressed. I am hoping that this addition to my man cave helps to build more accurate bits, particularly as I have taken to rebuilding a pair of floats for my Tiger Moth. Current creations have stalled as they are too heavy, not really the correct shape and are creating epoxy, fibre, foam issues that start small and then just get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Just 2 of the more recent projects which the laser was involved in, both were from either paper plans (Phase 5) or from one downloaded as a pdf (Tomboy). The use of my 3D printer and the laser cutter have somewhat changed the way I now build! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thornton 2 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 22 minutes ago, Ron Gray said: Just 2 of the more recent projects which the laser was involved in, both were from either paper plans (Phase 5) or from one downloaded as a pdf (Tomboy). The use of my 3D printer and the laser cutter have somewhat changed the way I now build! Evening Ron. I have been glued to my iPad watching your BMFA zoom chat about your Fusion 360, conversion to DXF file and loading it into the Lightburn software and doing the job. ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. There is so much information, unbiased and constructive with leads to previous zooms by others which I will be looking for. Really inspirational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Glad you enjoyed it Richard, it’s a shame that the ITAT ‘meetings’ fizzled out (I know that there is one tonight on Free Flight). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thornton 2 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 55 minutes ago, Ron Gray said: Glad you enjoyed it Richard, it’s a shame that the ITAT ‘meetings’ fizzled out (I know that there is one tonight on Free Flight). Thanks for the heads up Ron. Just registered as it sounds interesting. Now to find the other zooms you mentioned re Fusion and CAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinFlynn Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 17 hours ago, Richard Thornton 2 said: Any thoughts? Richard, as you seem to be in the diode laser camp I have a couple of thoughts for you - The actual frame (and make) of the cutter is of little consequence, all the thing has to do is position the laser head over the required spot. Of far more importance is the power of the laser head followed by the availability of air assist to blow away the burnt debris and the smoke. Please please please do NOT take the published power of the laser as gospel, in fact, it probably bears no relation to reality! The highest power blue diode laser still remains around 5 watts of light output power, to get anymore you need to increase the number of diode lasers in the head module. 5 watts will NOT normally be enough to cut 3mm balsa in one pass. I have a twin laser module and I cut 3mm balsa in a single pass at 75% power and 1000 mm/min with air assist. I also cut 3mm ply (or actually basswood) at 100% but it requires 3 passes. A quad laser might well be able to do this cut in one pass but it was too expensive for my blood! Horses for courses! The next concideration is what will be the biggest piece you will be wanting to cut, that will set the minimum footprint of the frame. If you fancy making your own using 3dprinted fittings and 2020 extrusion there are many examples available - I built one that uses just 3 pieces of extrusion. STL's available if wanted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 3 passes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 I have been looking at the subject of lazer cutters for a long time. They look and sound like the bees knees. What really bothers me is the actual 'Programming'. How 'Smart' do you have to be to enable this part of the technique ? I am of the older, older generation, not a complete idiot with some computer knowledge, mainly as a user rather than support. I am very interested if I could get some comments regarding the software and process. Is it possible to 'Try' the software , prior to buying a cutter, to see whats involved ? Bas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Gray Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 I too am of the older gen (72) but didn't find the software (Lightburn in my case) hard to use - there are plenty of YouTube vids on it. You can try it free for 30 days https://lightburnsoftware.com/pages/download-trial Regarding programming, once you have 'told' the software what the laser machine is and setup the cutting area then that is pretty much it. The main bit of tweaking is to the settings required for the various materials you are cutting, power/speed/passes and most of the time it is trial and error but there are test procedures built into Lightburn that allow you to find the best settings for the materials you are going to cut. Remember also that the density of the material also affects cutting, not a problem with Depron but with balsa and ply it can make a big difference. You can save your settings for the various materials in a library so that you can quickly select from that when you go to use the laser. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Colbourne Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 15 hours ago, Richard Thornton 2 said: I have been drawing a Martin Baker Mk4 in AutoCAD, I'm familiar with the MB3 & MB5, however for anyone like me who hadn't seen the MB4, here it is at the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepeiro Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 4 hours ago, FlyinFlynn said: Richard, as you seem to be in the diode laser camp I have a couple of thoughts for you - The actual frame (and make) of the cutter is of little consequence, all the thing has to do is position the laser head over the required spot. Of far more importance is the power of the laser head followed by the availability of air assist to blow away the burnt debris and the smoke. Please please please do NOT take the published power of the laser as gospel, in fact, it probably bears no relation to reality! The highest power blue diode laser still remains around 5 watts of light output power, to get anymore you need to increase the number of diode lasers in the head module. 5 watts will NOT normally be enough to cut 3mm balsa in one pass. I have a twin laser module and I cut 3mm balsa in a single pass at 75% power and 1000 mm/min with air assist. I also cut 3mm ply (or actually basswood) at 100% but it requires 3 passes. A quad laser might well be able to do this cut in one pass but it was too expensive for my blood! Horses for courses! presume this means my 20watt xtool is actually a quad laser as I have little issue cutting through 3mm base wood (except scorching) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Robson Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 19 hours ago, leccyflyer said: Richard - Ron;s videos are in ITAT Season 2 https://itat-forum.bmfa.uk/topicid/81 Which was TWO years ago, so my laser remains unused after TWO years, not one - how did that happen? 😮 Spending too much time flying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thornton 2 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 3 hours ago, Robin Colbourne said: I'm familiar with the MB3 & MB5, however for anyone like me who hadn't seen the MB4, here it is at the bottom. Ah, maybe I have mislead you Robin. It’s a Martin Baker Mk4 Ejection Seat. One of these. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 4 hours ago, Ron Gray said: I too am of the older gen (72) but didn't find the software (Lightburn in my case) hard to use - there are plenty of YouTube vids on it. You can try it free for 30 days https://lightburnsoftware.com/pages/download-trial Regarding programming, once you have 'told' the software what the laser machine is and setup the cutting area then that is pretty much it. The main bit of tweaking is to the settings required for the various materials you are cutting, power/speed/passes and most of the time it is trial and error but there are test procedures built into Lightburn that allow you to find the best settings for the materials you are going to cut. Remember also that the density of the material also affects cutting, not a problem with Depron but with balsa and ply it can make a big difference. You can save your settings for the various materials in a library so that you can quickly select from that when you go to use the laser. Thanks Ron, I am way ahead on you by nearly a decade. I am not computer 'Blank' but not a wiz kid. What I have seen of some soft ware the straight lines are logical. How would you instruct say a regular curve, ( seems more uniform ) or a non regular curve, thats what bothers me , as you have to have to quantify it in the first place!!! I can envisage the code being somewhat logical, whereas the latter surely need lots of points of reference , or is the software have some logic?. Thanks in advance Bas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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