Laser Cutters, any thoughts?

[Richard Thornton 2]

Ron, on your old Sculpfun cutter, can you ‘start’ a cut at a reasonably accurate position and is this done manually or by placing the object be cut in a position in relation to the bed.

I realise it seems an odd question

[Ron Gray]

I made a ‘red dot laser’ indicator which was attached to the laser head, the offset dimensions were entered into the machine setup then I could position the work exactly where the laser was going to start. 
Some newer machines have the indicator built in.

Edited June 19 by Ron Gray

[Richard Thornton 2]

That’s a very good idea, thanks for the help. I wasn’t sure how that would be achieved.

Going to take the plunge and order a Sculpfun S30 pro with air assist.

[FlyinFlynn]

 

 

23 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Look at this

 

https://acmerlaser.com/blogs/news/the-difference-between-lightburn-and-lasergrbl?srsltid=AfmBOopmL0zw7JXe6fiJMxgAnuwJek6JeN-3Pc4rI0boUtOz_yQu4Q44

 

Not sure I agree with the writers conclusions. I found Lightburns interface clumsy and clunky, just personal preference I guess, especially if you are trying to install a non-commercial cutter. The only thing that I found that was potentially better on Lightburn was the ability to setup the different powers and speeds of individual cuts before sending the gcode to the cutter. LaserGRBL handles this differently by assigning a colour to the cut and selecting the colour for each operation meaning you have to run the job for as many times as there are colours. In practice though I found there are never more than two colours (normally one for engraving the part designation and the other for the outline cuts) so not a major issue for me.

 

The claimed lack of support for file types is not an issue at all. Laser GRBL, it is true, does not accept dxf format, but every dxf software I know of exports to SVG, so I think it is a non-issue. LaserGRBL accepts all the common raster file types.  

 

I guess it comes down to trying both and paying the £90 if you want to.

 

[FlyinFlynn]

On 19/06/2025 at 10:10, shepeiro said:

yes have a honeycomb and airassist definitely helps a lot but still get it at high power on corners. Not sure if a quirk of just my laser cutter or all but you get a tiny slow down in an accute corner, at high power this is enough to  add some minor scorching can be fixed by speeding it up and doing multiple passes only “issue” is extra time/material spent configuring that 

What software and firmware are you using?  GRBL and its derivatives have a 'laser mode' to deal with just this problem. I believe Marlin does too but as I don't use Marlin I don't know the commands. GRBL employs laser mode with M4 instead of M3 to fire the laser (after enabling laser mode in the GRBL settings)

[FlyinFlynn]

On 19/06/2025 at 09:42, Richard Thornton 2 said:

Not meaning to ruffle feather at all.

I like the way LightBurn works, ie the logic which is a preference only but also the fact that you have the ability to produce a “test cut” to sort of calibrate your cutter to the material your cutting.

Finally, as I am yet to actually part with £90 when my free trail is up, I was particularly hoping that someone would point out that LightBurn and LaserGRBL are just as good as each other and what’s possible in the one program, is in fact, doable in the other.

Not ruffled any feathers, I just disagree with the viewpoint. LaserGRBL also has a power/speed test, a cutting test, an accuracy test and a shake test that you can use if you wish. It also keeps track of your laser lifespan and has a materials database.

 

After your free trial is up I suggest you try LaserGRBL for a while and see if there is anything that pops up that is worth the £90

 

 

 

[Ron Gray]

40 minutes ago, FlyinFlynn said:

just personal preference I guess

That's about it really, I tried both (having already got Lightburn free) for about 3 months and found that the Lightburn, to me, was far more intuitive and less clunky that LaserGRBL which has a very dated (imo) GUI (see below). There are some machine settings (for my Omtech) that you need to use GRBL for as they aren't available in Lightburn, fortunately these were only needed during the initial setup of the machine.

 

If I remember correctly you built your own laser cutter so I can see that using Laser GRBL maybe more suited, but for the vast majority of people they will be buying a commercial unit so do not need to delve into machine setup to level that you probably need.

 

User interfaces

 

Laser GRBL

 

Lightburn

 

Quoting another comparison, this time by All3DP

 

Ultimately, the choice between LaserGRBL and LightBurn comes down to your specific needs and preferences. If you’re looking for a free and straightforward program with nice cutting capabilities, LaserGRBL will be your best option. If you use another image editing software, such as Adobe or Gimp, LaserGRBL will retain image detail and translate it into your engraving. Just keep in mind that it has limited photo editing capabilities and the learning curve can be steeper. Overall, it seems LaserGRBL requires more trial and error, but can yield good results.

On the other hand, if you’re creating a custom engraving, LightBurn offers the easiest way to create, test, and visualize your project to get it done on the first try. Once you become more familiar with the interface and tools, LightBurn will allow you to create more advanced projects with less of a learning curve. However, its versatile capabilities come with a fee.

All in all, if you’re someone who doesn’t want to fight with software, or has given up on other hobbies out of frustration, LightBurn will get you engraving thoughtful, beautiful items in no time.

 

 

Edited June 20 by Ron Gray

[Richard Thornton 2]

1 hour ago, FlyinFlynn said:

What software and firmware are you using?  GRBL and its derivatives have a 'laser mode' to deal with just this problem. I believe Marlin does too but as I don't use Marlin I don't know the commands. GRBL employs laser mode with M4 instead of M3 to fire the laser (after enabling laser mode in the GRBL settings)

Can you elaborate please, difference between M4 and M3 ( and to avoid any abuse I appreciate it’s normally 1mm 🙈)

[shepeiro]

3 hours ago, FlyinFlynn said:

What software and firmware are you using?  GRBL and its derivatives have a 'laser mode' to deal with just this problem. I believe Marlin does too but as I don't use Marlin I don't know the commands. GRBL employs laser mode with M4 instead of M3 to fire the laser (after enabling laser mode in the GRBL settings)

Using xtools is house software at the moment. Was simplest to get started with and so far does what I need quite well

[Flying Squirrel]

When I bought lightburn, just a couple of years ago it was £40 IIRC? pretty big price increase and with the amount I use it I'm not sure I'd bother now.

 

OMTech have some pretty decently priced honeycomb beds on Amazon and if it's not 100% the correct size it's pretty simple to cut down and adjust to suit.

[FlyinFlynn]

4 hours ago, Richard Thornton 2 said:

Can you elaborate please, difference between M4 and M3 ( and to avoid any abuse I appreciate it’s normally 1mm 🙈)

When using GRBL (or fluidNC)  as the firmware in the controller there is an option you can select in the GRBL settings to enable Laser mode. This will make some basic changes to the way the firmware controls the hardware.  From https://github.com/gnea/grbl

• Laser Mode : The new "laser" mode will cause Grbl to move continuously through consecutive G1, G2, and G3 commands with spindle speed changes. When "laser" mode is disabled, Grbl will instead come to a stop to ensure a spindle comes up to speed properly. Spindle speed overrides also work with laser mode so you can tweak the laser power, if you need to during the job. Switch between "laser" mode and "normal" mode via a $ setting.

  • Dynamic Laser Power Scaling with Speed : If your machine has low accelerations, Grbl will automagically scale the laser power based on how fast Grbl is traveling, so you won't have burnt corners when your CNC has to make a turn! Enabled by the M4 spindle CCW command when laser mode is enabled!

Once you have enabled laser mode you can use M4 to fire the laser in dynamic power mode or M3 to fire the laser in constant mode (whatever the Sxxx setting is) 

[FlyinFlynn]

3 hours ago, shepeiro said:

Using xtools is house software at the moment. Was simplest to get started with and so far does what I need quite well

The dynamic power function comes from the firmware your controller uses, not the software you use to instruct the controller what to do. In other words, it is not in xtools or lightburn, or LaserGRBL for that matter, it is managed from the grbl or marlin firmware. In GRBL it is an option you can select from the GRBL Settings interface and in Marlin I believe you need to change a setting before compiling the firmware.....but don't hold my feet over the fire on that one... I am not sure.

 

Stick with xtools.... it has a less steep learning curve. 🙂

  

[FlyinFlynn]

6 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

delve into machine setup to level that you probably need

While it is true you do need to know and understand the physical limitations of your machine in order to enter those parameters into GRBL settings (something Lightburn does for you if you choose one of their pre-built machine settings) I don't think that is a bad thing. It will certainly help when stuff does go wrong if you are familiar with the settings and what they do.

 

You are correct Ron, I do build my own machines, I really enjoy the many aspects of doing so (cad design, 3d printing, ordering stuff from aliexpress, building the frame, designing the PCB, building the controllers, sorting out a work flow). I found Lightburn wouldn't connect to the valid serial port initially and once I had sorted that out I found that Lightburn has far too many windows to keep arranged on the screen. I really wasn't interested in engraving anything above a very basic function and found the little green and red indicators not to my liking.

 

I think LaserGRBL interface looks better than Lightburn too, it is less cluttered with redundant icons and nobody needs 20 different cutting speed/intensity icons.  Nobody!

 

" Once you become more familiar with the interface and tools, LightBurn will allow you to create more advanced projects with less of a learning curve."

 

say's it all right there for me  maybe I didn't spend enough time fighting with the software to appreciate the finer points of Lightburn.... not that I would have stayed with it for £90 anyway, for me, I don't think there is £90 worth of extra features over what LaserGRBL gives you for free.

 

You have a dated version in your post Ron, LaserGRBL is up to v7.14.1 now

Edited June 20 by FlyinFlynn
version number

[Ron Gray]

25 minutes ago, FlyinFlynn said:

and nobody needs 20 different cutting speed/intensity icons.  Nobody!

When I’m setting out the various components required to cut the elements for a model I need to select the correct speed and power for the different materials, eg for the Tomboy that I’ve just built there were 8 different materials ‘ thicknesses. I therefore used 8 of the layer colours which were assigned parameters from my material library I was then able to enable or disable the ones I wanted to be cut.

 

Regarding arranging windows on the screen, you don’t need them all and they can be switched off but once arranged to your liking they stay there, much the same as Autocad and most other modern software I use. Don’t forget that various keys are assigned to functions, again like modern software which means commonly used functions do not need to be accessed from an icon.

 

Obviously I won’t convince you but I’m not trying to do that, I’m trying to put an even spin on the software available for those who haven’t used either in anger as I have.

Edited June 20 by Ron Gray

[leccyflyer]

3 hours ago, Flying Squirrel said:

When I bought lightburn, just a couple of years ago it was £40 IIRC? pretty big price increase and with the amount I use it I'm not sure I'd bother now.

 

OMTech have some pretty decently priced honeycomb beds on Amazon and if it's not 100% the correct size it's pretty simple to cut down and adjust to suit.

Yep - £40 for a life time licence for me as well - a bit surprised that it has more than doubled in cost in just a couple of years. The updates are available at no additional cost - I updated mine just the other day,

[Richard Thornton 2]

5 minutes ago, leccyflyer said:

Yep - £40 for a life time licence for me as well - a bit surprised that it has more than doubled in cost in just a couple of years. The updates are available at no additional cost - I updated mine just the other day,

You lucky devil.

They now charge £28 a year to keep it up-to date, that’s after you’ve bought the £90 version.

 

[Richard Thornton 2]

Just throwing another brick in the pond.

When using a drawing imported into LightBurn or LaserGRBL, do you need the lines to be polylines or are ‘standard’ lines OK.

I ask this after watching 

 

https://itat-forum.bmfa.uk/topicid/77

 

Which just like Ron’s zoom was extreamly informative and have already made use of 2 functions who’s icons have been sitting there all along just waiting to be used.

[FlyinFlynn]

15 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

When I’m setting out the various components required to cut the elements for a model I need to select the correct speed and power for the different materials, eg for the Tomboy that I’ve just built there were 8 different materials ‘ thicknesses. I therefore used 8 of the layer colours which were assigned parameters from my material library I was then able to enable or disable the ones I wanted to be cut.

OK. Maybe if you are using a laser machine that has a LOT of power I can see how you might want several different power settings to deal with thicker material....but 32? (count them)  really?  Just an example of how Lightburn, in attempting to  make itself master of all trades IMHO becomes overly complicated for the vast majority of functions that the vast majority of hobby users need. Who really uses the drawing functions in Lightburn? (cue the "I do" responses) There are much better drawing software utilities that do a much better job of providing editing facilities that don't take up  valuable real estate on your screen that could otherwise be employed displaying something useful.

 

The last few models I have cut have been only 5 or 6 different woods and thicknesses of which only two different power settings were used and all at the same speed. Even I can remember those settings. Also, because of the way Lightburn organises its workflow, you also need to pre setup all those settings before starting the job, and remember which setting is for which particular wood/thickness, whereas in LaserGRBL the job is broken down into individual power & speed sections and the different cutting parameters are performed seperately. Again, only significant when you are using a higher power CO2 laser, which I, would hazard a guess, is not the  majority case on this forum.

 

Anyhoo..... Lightburn works for you, great, but it wasn't the best choice for me. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ron Gray]

1 hour ago, FlyinFlynn said:

you also need to pre setup all those settings before starting the job, and remember which setting is for which particular wood/thickness,

Nope, you use the material library for that.

 

Bottom line is that you’re not going to convince me and I’m not going to convince you but a lot of what you are posting, to the newcomer is misinformation and not imo a balanced view.

 

I’ll now drop out of this conversation because it is in danger of going around in circles.

[Richard Thornton 2]

9 hours ago, Ron Gray said:

Nope, you use the material library for that.

 

Bottom line is that you’re not going to convince me and I’m not going to convince you but a lot of what you are posting, to the newcomer is misinformation and not imo a balanced view.

 

I’ll now drop out of this conversation because it is in danger of going around in circles.

Evening Ron.

Sorry you have felt the need to drop out of this conversation.

THANK YOU for all your input and helpful conversation with regards to my original question. You have inspired me to take the plunge and buy a laser cutter. I know from reading others posts, you have got others to dust off their cutters and have a go.

I am sure there are going to be more questions once my parcel arrives and I get it flashed up, neglecting to read the instructions as ever!

Regards Richard

[Ron Gray]

Richard, the only conversation I dropped out from was the one with FF as it was getting nowhere and distracted from the main topic!

 

Glad you’ve taken the plunge and post any questions on here.

[Richard Thornton 2]

On 20/06/2025 at 18:03, Richard Thornton 2 said:

Just throwing another brick in the pond.

When using a drawing imported into LightBurn or LaserGRBL, do you need the lines to be polylines or are ‘standard’ lines OK.

I ask this after watching 

 

https://itat-forum.bmfa.uk/topicid/77

 

Which just like Ron’s zoom was extreamly informative and have already made use of 2 functions whose icons have been sitting there all along just waiting to be used.

Not had a response yet, any thoughts?

[Ron Gray]

If you import an image of a drawing then you will have to trace it and you will end up with 2 lines, an inner and an outer. IMO it is far easier to actual sketch over the top of an imported image.

 

If you are importing a dxf type file then, in effect, the lines have no thickness, just their reference points for plotting so no need to trace.

[Richard Thornton 2]

1 hour ago, Ron Gray said:

If you import an image of a drawing then you will have to trace it and you will end up with 2 lines, an inner and an outer. IMO it is far easier to actual sketch over the top of an imported image.

 

If you are importing a dxf type file then, in effect, the lines have no thickness, just their reference points for plotting so no need to trace.

Many thanks Ron

[Ron Gray]

Pictures explain it better!

 

Using Lightburn, the imported image 

 

 

After using the trace option to convert the image into something the laser cutter 'understands'

 

 

There is software available that will allow you to automatically remove one of the lines, outer or inner but that doesn't always work as expected plus you still end up with less than ideal curves and corners that are not sharp.