Bob Moore

Sorry and all that, but you say 'when you are just hanging there...' it's not ME. Please don't make this personal, (this appears to be the tone of your post.) I go there twice a year at most! And I've never seen a modeller flying there. I didn't write the site guide either and agree maybe it should be updated, or changed to mention model flyers. You mention a paraglider wanting to use the stretch of coast you were on. Maybe it had the best lift and he didn't want to end up in the sea, as he would have very likely drowned. I doubt very much anyone would fly in such a way just to cause you or any other modellers grief. It is as you said common sense to keep clear, as a model could down a paraglider and cause serious injury or death, and most paraglider pilots are smart enough to know that, and don't want an accident. If you have issues with paragliders at Woolacombe, please, as I've suggested, contact North Devon paragliding club. There's no point ranting at me about it. Contacts list is here Even better here's club contact's e mail address richardosborne(at)hotmail.co.uk edit the 'at' for an @ I have just phoned him an mentioned this discussion. You mention another site you can use, bear in mind that there are very few sites that are suitable for paragliding (or get permission from farmers or the NT for paragliding. And pay the NT for using the site too. ) but there are possibly quite a few more that can be used for model flying. Paragliders have to go where they can. Woolacombe is a two and a half hour drive for me. If there was a decent site I could use nearer to me, believe me I wouldn't spend out £40 on fuel driving up there!   Edited By Bob Moore on 26/09/2012 17:06:00

Nope. I nearly always use non copyright music. The weird thing is when I look at the source code, the video is the one that should be playing. ie it's not the source code for the Cloud time lapse. It's something to do with the way this site is pulling up the videos it seems. They are still working ok on Facebook, and on and HD Key chain forum.

Hi Moderators, I posted two videos in the thread below of paraglidng at Woolacombe and Teignmouth and for some reason the thread is now showing in both slots, a video I posted today of a cloud time lapse?   Any ideas why please? I used the embed code in YouTube as always although it didn't offer an old code as it used to? This thread Very weird and confusing when a thread mentions a paragliding video and the one embedded is a time lapse? Twice even!   I've tested in Firefox and IE and the same problem is there so it doesn't appear to be a browser issue. cheers Edited By Bob Moore on 26/09/2012 16:17:07

Thanks Steve, nice to hear something positive. The last time I flew at Freathy, a few weeks back, another of the coastal sites featured in my videos, a modeller had lost an aircraft and several of us spent some time over flying the spot and trying to direct him to it. He was looking for a good hour or two. Easy to see it from the air, but impossible in the 6 foot high brambles from the ground. Despite our efforts I'm not sure if he recovered it. A year or two back I spotted a Zagi type wing in brambles stuck on another site No modellers to be seen and I think it had been there some time. I figured I'd try and recover it. Despite having a good idea where it was it took me an hour and was a fight through shoulder high brambles. No contact details on the model and the rx, battery and servoes were dead, but some time later I did revive it with new kit. Re the cost of paragliding. The cost of s/h gear isn't bad. My wing was £425 and will be good for at least 3 or 4 years or more. I sold my last wing to a club member for £250 and a week later he did a 15k cross country flight on it. New cost more like £3000, some people like to upgrade and buy the latest models so 2 or 3 year old wings with few hours on are common. (You need to know what you are buying is suitable for your level of experience of course, as with rc models, you get hot wings and beginner wings. Harness, mine s/h £125. (New £500 -600+) Helmet £100 new, boots £140 new (not essential) and reserve parachute NEW a couple of hundred quid. Oh and vario, £160. The big cost is getting training. Usually about ten days to get your club pilot rating which means you can fly without an instructor being present. (Though still within a club environment with advice from other pilots and coaches.) And you can join the British Hangliding and Paragiding Association,and will have insurance, which clubs will require. In the UK the 10 days can take a year depending on your availablility and the weather. (Took me a year.) But the cost for the ten days is about a £1000. There are people who buy s/h gear from e bay and try and teach themselves, or be taught by mates. I'm a coach, but not allowed to instruct. But it's not best of plans to try and self teach, though it's often pointed out that twenty years ago that's what people did. It's a potentially dangerous activity depending on your attitude to risk, and risk assessment. Not an adrenaline junky sport like speedflying, BASE etc. Often very mellow,, but needs to be treated with respect. It may sound daft but I get more nervous before taking off one of models than I do taking off on my paraglider. Re safely being aloft, you never stop learning really and can pay heavily by learning by your mistakes. After about 10 days as a CP you are signed off to fly. Hard to say a minimum time to be really safe, it depends what you want to do. (If there's such a thing as really safe. Reasonably competent maybe. ) Coastal flying at sites like Woolacombe, which is an easy site for low airtime OK for anyone. Some of our Dartmoor sites have big chunks of granite and mistakes can be damaging. Alpine flying in strong thermals takes a bit more learning too. Ground handling is the hardest thing to be really competent at, and you still cock up sometimes. Strong winds are hardest. (Hence the start of my video I use a Mitsos launch technique.) If you have thought about it, you can try a taster day with most schools and they will knock the cost of the day off the price of the course if you proceed further.

Sorry to hear that Steve, I think most people are reasonable whatever sport they do. I doubt there are that many paras that will see this here, so as I said before your best bet would be to talk to the local club if you have a problem? Edited By Bob Moore on 25/09/2012 20:15:20

edit, Hi Devon flyer, my reply was too the previous post! Woolas is a great site, but generally modellers (inc me) need to keep the model close enough to see it, unless flying FPV, and where possible, I think paragliders try to extend their run as far as possible? ie   Away from take off area. I'm surprised there's confict there? But I only get up there from S Devon a couple of times a year. You mention 'our airspace'. I don't know if you have an arrangement with the North Devon club, but there's no mention of anything about models and ' agreed airspace' on the site guide on their web site?  Am I missing something? .... South Wales is a brilliant flying area, though I've only been a couple of times and didn't see any modellers where I flew. We don't get many slopers at my local sites, but at busy sites like Devil's Dyke near Brighton, they have agreed demarcation zones and as far as I know things work out ok. It scares the sh.t out of me flying with models, as a model in the lines will likely down a paraglider and possibly even kill him. The model will probably be repairable? (If not covered in blood. ) Don't know where you fly, but at times I guess there are likely to be some conflicts. Paragliders can only fly in a very small wind window. 10 or maybe 12 mph to 17 -18 mph max. I have slopers that will fly in 5 mph and another 20+ mph. Paragliders have a glide of 8 -1 or 10 -1 at best. A lot of slopers have 3 or 4 times that glide I guess. Paragliders are slower and less manoevrable. The guys who flew your way may have needed to? Just a thought. I have seen video of a soarer stuck in someones lines. I fly both so can see both points of view. ( I guess there are some paraglider pilots who consider model flyers to be the bain of their lives too! ) We are starting to see speedflyers and mini wings at our sites and there is some conflict there and potential for accidents. It's like snowboarders and skiers. And sailors and blooming speedboats and jet skis. (Can you tell I was a professional sailor?) Nobody owns the air or the water though. Anyhow, hope you can sort things out. Have you talked to the local club? That would be a good way to start, or go to a club meeting and talk about it? I can assure you if ever I'm lucky enough to be at a site where you're flying the F3F (don't know what it is but it's fast) I will be keeping well out of your way.   PS Interestingly an FPV flier posted some video on my paragliding forum. He was at times flying miles away from his own loaction, high in mountains and close to paragliders. A lot of people expressed concerns,  but he came back on the forum to explain about his fail safes and other stuff and it was a bit reassuring. Can't say I'm that keen on the idea of being chased around the sky by an FPV though.   PPS I didn't come on here to start a war between model flyers and paragliders, just to post a key chain cam video because others had expressed interest in the past!         Edited By Bob Moore on 25/09/2012 19:18:07 Edited By Bob Moore on 25/09/2012 19:21:47 Edited By Bob Moore on 25/09/2012 19:27:05

As you seem to enjoy the last, this video was Saturday near Teignmouth. (I don't usually get this much air time. Sometimes I'm lucky if it's once or twice a month.) Cold and grey but enjoyable 1000 feet above take off and 400 feet per min. (About 1400 feet asl.) Edited By Bob Moore on 25/09/2012 15:59:25

No, these are thermals that develop over the sea. Sea temp this time of year there is 17 degs C and air temp was 13 degs. It only needs an air temp differential of 2 or 3 degs for the development/formation of a thermal. Usually formed of course by the sun heating the ground and causing a differential. You do sometimes get conventional thermals popping off from the beach or rocks as well on sunny days. The wind was blowing onshore at 20 mph so impossible for land thermals to drift in that direction. One of the guys flying has flown 90 k from there and I spoke to him before my flight. He said you need to pick up a weak sea thermal, drift downwind over the land with it and then try and connect with a land thermal. I was flying two days ago at Labrador Bay near Teignmouth. A cold and grey day. No sunshine at all. Normal soaring height on the coast, here, take off height 400 feet asl, might be 300 - 400 feet above take off. I got a sea thermal at 400 - 500 feet per minute that took me a 1000 feet above take off. No sunshine, just a temp differential. A couple of years ago at this time of the year I got over a 1000 feet and a hill on the coast that is just 150 feet asl.

Ho Josip, I think paragliders and hangliders are safer than they were 10 or 20 years ago. CAD and better testing. There is still potential for accident, but hopefully a lot depends on one's attitude and risk assessment ability. (That's what I tell myself anyway!) Hi David, Woolacombe is a great site for newly qualified CP's. Big grassy top for top landing or practising top landing approaches and a huge beach to land on, or bomb out on. (Less beach on a springs high water of course.) One of my first post qualifying flights was there, and the guy I car shared with wednesday took his first post CP flight that day. (It was top end wind and it took a loooonnng time to get him in the air.) WNW is best wind direction. A forecast of about 10 mph at Chivenor on XC weather, usually equates to a flying breeze 12 -14 mph on the hill. The site guide is on South Devon Club web site. Most important is the note about low flying north of Mill Rock. (The North Devon Club have had complaints.) Go for it.

Not sure where the white cap fits Josip, and I doubt I'm cool! It is nice to get high though. I'm 65 (flying about 10 years), but I know someone who started at 69.  My best heights are around 8,000 feet asl, in Australia and again in the Alpes last year. And 5,000 feet in the UK.  And best cross country is 37k. (Video on my channel.) Try it Josip! Cap? My full face helmet is silver (used be dark grey, but it was too hot in the sun so I got a mate with a body shop to respray it for me!) Edited By Bob Moore on 22/09/2012 14:50:31 Edited By Bob Moore on 22/09/2012 14:50:59

Thanks David. I do fly models too! Frankenstein is going to be maidened soon, now I've sorted my engine problems by the simple remedy of new fuel. Was rechecking the CoG today. Re low level collapse. Yes, rotor/turbulence is what will get you. It's about worst thing that can happen and does result in serious injury or even death. Despite the thermic conditions on Wednesday it wasn't rough. One of my friends had his first post qualify flight. It was top end limit for paragliding so plenty of ridge lift. And the 'best' thermal featured in the video was decidely gentle and large. 100 feet is about the limit for throwing your reserve, so it's nice once you get above a few hundred feet. I was flying in Dorset a couple of weeks back in rough thermic conditions and if it's like that I consider it;s better to call it a day and land. Glad you enjoyed it (and thanks for allowing them in a model thread.) It is useful as an example of the quality of the £30 HD key chain cam?

Nice day paragliding on the N Devon coast on Wednesday with 800 feet per min sea thermals at times. I got my best ever height, 2,100 feet asl, but chickened out on going over the back (as we say. ) Video from HD 16 version 1 key cam. **LINK** 3 of my friendsdid fly cross country, 2 of them making 80k to Taunton.    Edited By David Ashby - RCME on 21/09/2012 13:27:16 Edited By Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 26/09/2012 17:25:03

In my defence, I have read up on IC and know how IC engines are supposed to be tuned top end, bottom end, pinch the fuel pipe mixture test, etc. plus have an engineering background so know the things to look for (I think.) I tried every known idea on the SC40 I started the thread with and there was no logical answer. BUT as said, a tank of new scrounged fuel and it was sweet as a nut. SO no amount of tuning would have solved that one I'd say. (Believe me I tried (and tried.)) We'll see how I get on now with some decent new fuel. (Hope I don't have to eat my words )

I don't think they are unreliable really, I think my problem has been with old fuel, or my rubbish tuning! I see folk at my club flying IC mostly without any problems. Though there is still the occasional dead stick. And maybe I should have switched to a different fuel a long while ago? I started flying 15 years ago and my  sc 25 on my trainer (bought new)  used to start with flick of the finger and was very reliable. I flew it regularly. Then I took a break for a few years and came back to the sport. I think it's a bit like old motorbikes, outboard engines, etc. If used regularly they are great, but used infequently not so good. Part of the problem is that I have a few sports and hobbies and don't get to fly that much. Maybe a couple of times in a month or less even. I think things will improve with this new fuel anyhow. Edited By Bob Moore on 18/09/2012 18:03:26

Certainly seems that way. The container was closed and it was in a cool dark place. It was laying around for a while though (maybe two years?) as you may remember I almost chopped the end off my thumb with an IC engine prop and it rather put me off IC. I'm cautiously back into it a bit now Oh well, this time I only bought half a gallon, I should get through that more quickly. Part of the thing that put me off IC was unreliability of engines, but I think if I use fresher fuel they would run better anyway?

I bought half a gallon of Model Technics Formula Irvine Contest 10 yesterday. Put it in the tank and the SC40 ran nicely. Interestingly, previously when I tried to tune the main needle with the old fuel, ie shut it till the revs picked up and then ease it a couple of clicks, it wouldn't play ball. Wind the screw in and no pick up, so very hard to tell where the best position was. This time with new fuel, I screwed it in a click or three and there was a definite pick up point and pitch change from the engine. So, all my time and effort was a waste of time because my fuel had gone off!

Hi Phil, yes I do fly at a club and it was after scrounging a tank full of a Pro Synth 2000 and finding my engine ran like a dream on it that I realised there was something wrong with my fuel. Maybe just too old. I do intend to try some others when we get some flying weather! having said that for a long while I've had no probs with GX. It may have just been in my shed too long! thanks to everyone for all the valuable input.

I Googled Southern Modelcraft and discovered that it can only be got at shows as you say. And it appears that unless you order say 4 galls at a time most places won't deliver. I've got a couple of shops with an hour so will try an alternative to GX I think. It's a shame it's not easy to get small quantities of fuel for test purposes.

I did encapsulate it and it appears to work every time I plug it up now! I kept it attached to a battery and servo as I epoxied and kept wiggling the the stick and even as the 5 minute epoxy was going off it stopped working. I frantically pressured board (with sticky fingers) till it worked again and fortunately the epoxy went off with it still working! Not sure I'd trust it in an important model, though I might try it in something cheapo.

Oh well, after half a bottle of wine I just plugged in the rx board again on the bench with an external battery pack and a couple of servos to see if it would work. Nada. Then I got hold of the small board and gave a little twisting pressure (I'm talking very little) and lo and behold it sprung into life. I'm not talking tweaking the power lead, as I'd say indications were that there was power to the board, I'm just talking gentle pressure of the board. I tried prodding and poking compontents but to no avail. (I should have mentioned, years ago I did a 10 month full time C and G (anyone remember City and Guilds exams?) in Electronic Servicing - Fault Finding) With such small coments a poor joint would be very difficult to spot. This makes me suspect even more that there's a poor solder joint somewhere. Looking with a big magnifying glass isn't good enough, it would need a microscope (which I don't have) and even then, if I could see a suspect joint I can't solder micro components. At least I've satisfied my curiosity? It's working now (at the moment anyway) and the thought crossed my mind to encapsulate it in resin. But I'd still never trust it.

Hi Stephen, I can't easily get to esc or motor wires now unless I do some serious dismantling. Apart from that it's a big chunky esc with a heat sink on top and it does get warm. I don't think it would be good to wrap it up! I've got a leccy Orion glider and have had that thermalling almost out of sight, but no glitches too. And a little Depron Edge that's leccy, no glitches. Re the Hitec John, I haven't as yet tried the Dual conversion rx, I've been flying the Wot4 with Hitec 06MG single conversion rx. Someone said further back that they only use dual conversion and I'm hoping that this will solve the problem. I guess you missed my post about the fault happening when using an external NiMh pack too when you cross posted? That rules out dodgy connections or esc I'd say. Just to make it clear though, my problem is just occasional rudder or aileron twitches when in flight. And even then, they are only very occasional. There's a possibilty that apart from onboard interference, it may be something to do with my flying site. It's on top of a hill and a lot of people get glitches in certain places. (Between the strip and an old windmill we can see far off in the distance is one spot.) Maybe microwave links or some other radio interference beam. I'll see how it goes with the dual conversion receiver. Testing inside my house walking the length of it 15 metres with the tx aerial completely retracted even putting the tx in the stainless steel sink and point the antenna stub at the model it didn't lose the signal or glitch. Seems encouraging!

Thanks for the suggestion Andy and I did wonder that too, so I took a look at the lead from the ESC. However, if there was a fault in the feed to the rx it would display the fault with every rx I put in. The Hitec has been in and out a few times in between trying the Corona and it works 100 % every time. Plug in the feed and the servos and it works, just the way things are supposed to. Plus, the intermittment fault has occured when it's plugged completely seperately into a NiMh battery pack and external servos. I'm 99.9% sure it has a fault on the board. Tried different battery, different tx, different crystal, different servos! And it still only works intemittently. Very annoying. Even if it appeared to be ok in another test, unless I could see where the fault was and sort it, I would never trust the thing. Edited By Bob Moore on 13/09/2012 19:38:25

Thanks. I did try it with two different crystals though. The reviews were good for this rx, but maybe I was just unlucky? Think I'll stick to Hitec. I've installed an old Hitec dual conversion rx, with some extra ferrite rings here and there, and sat it on a piece of aluminium foil to seperate it from the esc and motor. I'll see how that goes?