Steve Hargreaves - Moderator

I'm sure this is good advise but I think we need to be a little careful when comparing our models to the full size. Specifically on power to weight we have a huge advantage. Being a disciple of NASA most of my models will climb vertically from a take-off run...try that in yer Cessna & see how far you get!!! Of course if you happen to have a Euro Fighter at your disposal then you can disregard that last comment!!!! The point is though that all this power makes us lazy & rather than allowing the wing to actually work & fly as its designer intended we tend to drag our models around & rely on all that power to get us through the manouever, or at least I do. This is something a full size pilot cannot do. Hence when we cut the power & glide into land we become like the full size pilots & if we forget we don't have a huge fan to pull us along & start taking liberties with the aircraft they bite. I was reading recently that someone had put a "black box" in a model & recorded a max of 16G!!! That means that yer average 7lb Acrowot effectively weighed...er...112lb!! Thats a lot for some balsa to support but then structural failure is pretty rare. How many full size aircraft are rated to 16G? (Apart from the fact the pilot would be unconcious long before 16G was reached) Personally I put a lot of my rubbish landings (& flying generally) down to my habit of swapping between aircraft...I always take 2 or three models to the patch & after flying my fun fly & taking outrageous (aerodynamic) liberties with it I always find my flying of other more "scale" models (Extra, Sukhoi etc) suffers & I'm convinced its because, subconciously, I try & fly 'em like a fun fly!!!!

Thanks Evan.....your theory does sound extremely interesting & on the face of it common sense, however just to lob a metaphorical hand grenade into the mix, the closet theorist in me would worry that a very steep approach would effectively mean a high alpha approach which would increase the risk of a catastrophic stall. My theory is this; Since a wing doesn't know or care which way, direction or what ever the aircraft is travelling it is only interested in its angle of attack (alpha) to the oncomming airflow...without this it cannot fly. By definition a steep approach is a high alpha one as the oncoming air is approaching from under the aircraft. As an example (& I know the numbers are ridiculous but lets just go with them to illustrate the point) lets say you approach in dead still air at 45 degrees....the oncoming air is meeting the wing at 45 degrees hence your angle of attack is now 45 degrees. From this we can deduce that the steeper the approach the higher the angle of attack, the more likely to exceed the critical value & stall..... (Stands well back & awaits the Surface to Air Missiles) PS I have to admit the theory is not mine but comes from "Stick & Rudder" which is an excellent read for those interested in how aircraft fly (although it is fairly heavy going on the tchnical theory side)

Didn't know you could still get those!!! I recall RCM&E did a test on one fitted with a small ic motor (12 or 15)....it certainly looks different!!!!!

Isn't the Alienator that slightly wierd forward swept wing canard thingy???? It would react a bit strangely to most things I would think!!!!!!

Will do......the problem is you don't really know how its going to respond until you actually go for it though do you....if you apply them at height you don't get a real sense of ground speed or rate of descent. I suppose the proof of the pudding will be in that final base leg turn. Mind you it would be nice to know if the thing is going to fall out of the sky beforehand!!!

So spoilerons effectively mean I'd need to land at a faster speed to maintain the lift whereas with flaps I could go slower for the same lift......mmmmm decisions, decisions!!!! I will set up a mix so I can try both & see which is most effective......

Thats an interesting thought Evan. Not one I had considered as the simpleton in me thought an up going aileron would force the wing down but you are right this is what the glider guys do....spoilerons.....where's Andy Ellison when we need him....? That said the full size guys use flaps for landing rather than spoilerons...is there a reason for this maybe?

Yeah, that was my concern....full flap....a little bit of left & oops yer right hand servo stalls!!! As you say Timbo I think it will be a case of experimenting.....wish me luck!!!

Thanks for the comments guys....both models have separate wing servos so no problems there. Certainly no need to use 'em for take-off...both models er "adequate" power so its usually a case of choosing a climb angle (anywhere between 45 & 90 degrees usually does it!!!!!) & hanging on!!!! Two further questions though....how much downward movement needed to be effective & are the ailerons still effective with the flapperons deployed? Both models (Sukhoi & Extra as mentioned) are semi-scale so have semi-scale ailerons rather than the huge flappy things on a fun fly or 3d'er....

Here's a thought......our patch is pretty small & not being a brilliant pilot I often struggle getting my low wing models (Sukhoi & Extra) down first time every time. This is mainly because both have a pretty nasty stall so I try & keep the speed up on approach. I often misjudge it & have to go around again (& again, & again) I wondered about mixing the ailerons so they can be switched into flaps, ie both ailerons down together, using an auxilliary channel.... Anyone done it? Does it work? How much "down" do you need to be effective & are the ailerons still effective to pick up that wing?

Slightly off message here but may be of interest...in my professional job (the one that pays the mortgage rather than provides the enjoyment!!!) I am currently working with a company designing a drive system for a Hybrid car. This has a control unit between the motor & battery that controls the charging & running of the motor...much more complex than our motor/ESC/battery combo obviously but the parallels are there...& they are having huge problems with EMF, spikes & glitches interfering with the many electrical systems on the car. Their solution is to use individual shielded cables (like a braid wrapped around the conducting core) & ground all the braid to effectively "trap" the electro-magnetic radiation.

OK Scott thanks for that....I've been following David Ashbys EDF trials with the HET F20 which seems interesting....especially as its a bigger model...not sure I could handle all the faffing about with bungees & things though...

Went to Weston Park this year & whilst peering through the mud I was very impressed by a Perkins Tiger Shark that ripped up & down the strip...... Anyone tried this model? I quite fancy a bash at EDF & as a package this seems pretty good at £100 for the model, ESC & Motor......looking through the forum though EDF & interference/glitching seem to go hand in hand....any views?? Also the recommended battery is a 1200 LiPo which seems a bit on the small side to me.....I'm guessing the EDF will pull around 20A & as I use a rule of thumb of trying not to exceed 10C I would have thought that an 1800 or 2000 LiPo would be nearer the mark but will it fit???

At the risk of pouring a bit of cold water onto Jeti & although not an EDF flyer yet I have a 5 channel MPD version in a Nigel Hawes Fizza & that still glitches....no where near as much as the GWS unit it replaced but it does still do it...maybe once every two or three flights. I also have a cheap as chips Cirrus single conversion unit in another leccy model & that has been perfect...no glitches at all. Although I do like Jeti stuff & they have a very good reputation at my club I think the quality of the installation is what counts most.

There's a couple of free ;lans here to... http://www.foamyfactory.com/airplanes.htm & scroll down......comes in a pdf file....email a copy to yer local Pronta Print...pay 'em a few quid & collect a beautiful plan..... These are Depron profile models though!!! PS take care to check the plans are correctly scaled when you print them out though.....pooters, software & scanners can do strange things to our scale plans & you can find that 1 inch on the plan doesn't equal 1 inch on yer ruler.....

The blue ones are 20-30C....the price is just amazing....there has to be a catch!!!

I'm just putting a shopping list together for United...motor, controller, shedload of 9g servos....couple of batteries.....so far I've spent nearly a pound LOL!!!!!! my only worry is that I'll get stung for import duties etc...that'd be just my luck!! As the saying goes...if I fell in a barrel of bosoms I'd come out sucking my thumb!!!

Yes, well done Planenutz...a supplier that supports & stands by its products!! Pete we need more like you!!! Glad to see we are all friends again......;-)

Has anyone converted a Ripmax electric Spitfire to IC?? A few club members have these models & they fly beautifully...the only problem I can see is that they need batteries not glow fuel!!!!!! I was thinking about converting one to a real engine...a 30 4 stroke would be good I think...& wondered if anyone had got there before me....

Aaarrrgghhhh!!! Now I want one too!!! Stop, stop!!!! Actually at 120USD it starts to get a bit pricey doesn't it....you can get something similar in the UK for that.....check out Planenutz...they have a great electric Yak for £75 plus a nice Pitts & Ultimate!!!

Have you seen the HXT 9g servos too.....$3.65!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's less than two quid each.....!!! (get some work done...get some work done...get some....)

Its amazing isn't it!!!! Hooraayyy for the internet!!!!! The Fizza is the "400" version....the Whizza is a "600" version.... Incidentally TowerPro do a 18 turn version of this motor (also on United site...must get some work done!!! LOL) which has a kv of 1000.....lower max current though!!! Not much difference between that motor & the one you've highlighted though.... buy, Buy, BUY...bye bye!!!

Or buy the same motor from United instead of BRC!!! https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4899

H'mmmm looking at the spec I think quoting it at 200 watts is slightly optomistic....given they say 16A max continuous current that works out at nearer 160 watts...if you went for a 9x6 or 10x5 you'd need to keep the throttle under control or it would be magic smoke time again!!!!! Still 160 watts for under a tenner is good & will give yer Formosa something to think about...the relatively low kv value will suit it too....a big prop gives lots of wash which is good for yer aeros....the BRC unit http://www.brchobbies.co.uk/?page=shop&item=322 is much higher reving (1500 kv) which suits faster models & as we said the Formosa isn't about speed!!! Check out the Nigel Hawes Fizza too....it's simple to build looks good & has been described as a "balsa Formosa". With its 1/4" all sheet wing being nice & thin it can get a move on when you stick 150 watts up its chuff so it suits the higher reving motors....RCM&E May 2005 had the free plan but I can copy mine if the've sold out & you'd like one.... (http://www.fizza.co.uk/ Nige isn't producing kits anymore so a plan is what you need...Vortex Vacforms do the canopies!!!

No problems with Customs then.....??? Think I might need to indulge in a new battery or two then.....!! Is this the 200 Watt Tower Pro motor from BRC?? Should be awesome....check out the motor mount page too he has one that should be perfect for the Formosa..... see http://www.brchobbies.co.uk/?page=shop&action=additem&item=9