Bill Michie

Seen on BMFA Classifieds in last coupla days: Kwik Fli Mk 3 RTF; Astor Hog RTF; Webra Speed (Champion?) .61 w. Dynamix carb; and OS .46 SF I think, looks like ringed version. Just in case anyone's interested...........(me 'angar's full..................) I don't know anything about the things or owners, just for your info! Bill

FWIW..................... Both my ARF Curare and the GP Dirty Birdy, have split elevators; both use the same method of elev control: Two "snake" outer tubes, supported at ends & in the middle; and then 2 x 1.2-1.5mm steel pushrods with solder links & clevises at the tail ends, and joined together at the servo end (slight bend to get parallel) with either two wheel collars, or by binding/soldering (I did both for belts & braces); the servo end simply fits a standard servo arm with a 90deg bend & a "snap keeper". Did the same for the Curare flaps.................... It's simple, effective, and has NO slop (including that if you hold one elev, the other will NOT move relative to it). If the servo arm hole wears, very simple replacement at no cost. I'm sure there are variations on the theme but in this case, the KISS principle works (as it did back in the day) & needn't cost a fortune in fancy after-market linkages.................... Just an alternative, simple view............ Bill

I agree with the principle of "bonus % for earlier designs................ Though the actual %age would need to be discussed/decided upon. Perhaps to simplify by way of Decades or "year periods" eg '60's/ '70's etc; or 1960-65; 1966-70, etc (bearing in mind there were at times HUGE development steps eg from straight wings, fixed gear & standard mufflers, to the "full-house" '70's designs). Vis my Kwik Fli with a cross-flow .60, compared to the DB or Curare with full-house kit. What about simpler schedules for simpler models instead? Above all, I believe it needs to be kept simple & transparent, though fair! We're only doing this for FUN after all! Do you, for example, deduct a few % for a Kwik Fli if it's got a modern .61 on a pipe.................? (like the "noise penalty" in an F3A Scoresheet) Food for thought................. Bill

Reference endurance Terry: For comparison, my ST .61 on a pipe, doing 14K, uses approx 2oz per minute at full throttle. IIRC, the DB 60 has a 12 oz tank, good for about 7-8mins of spirited flying. I'd say 14 oz might be a bit tight, but maybe best to ask Terry W.........................or limit yourself to 6 mins initially, until you establish actual usage for your style. Brgds Bill

Welcome to the newest Aerobatics Group in the UK Sam! Seems more & more fliers are becoming interested.................. Bill

Think I recall reading, that Hanno had various variations of the Flap system, including some with airbrakes & some without................. The "snap-flaps" seems to be the simplest solution, mostly used coupled with elevators for sharp square corners, and slow landings (these days can be mixed in with up ailerons a la "crow flaps" for landing apparently). Worth trying out anyway, esp with modern mixing trannies. Bill

Recent S/H purchase, just as a "let's see if it works" challenge.............. Well clogged internally with Castor residue & a bit dirty outside, but looks quite clean. Not really what I need for my current models but couldn't resist for a bit of playing & challenge...................together with other things on the go! Bill

Welcome to the newest/oldest Pattern group in UK, Sam...................... I'm enjoying the fun & flying, without any pressure, stress, or anything else that goes with "trying" to fly F3A at any sort of competitive level. (& yes I know I wasn't very good anyway!) Regds, Bill PS: just bought a S/H RFP that I'm cleaning up as a "let's see if it works" project.................. though I favour the short-stroke engines for "period" sound & speed............

Just appeared on BMFA Classifieds: H9 Phoenix7, BNIB, £200 posted; with Evolution 60NX & pipe, £300 posted; Note you still need a trike retract system........... If my 'angar wasn't already full, I'd 'ave it! Bill

And my latest toy.............

Man this model's getting complicated! Call me old-fashioned/stuck in da past, but that's why I personally prefer pineumatik retracts (in my previous life, Rhoms, now using some (S/H!) Spring-airs); as I've found them relatively simple with no additional electrical risk & no real extra weight (probably lighter than leccy ones with an extra battery). Fantastic job though Martyn, should be something really special when finished! Best regards, Bill

Yes it sure looks like only a relative few of the H9 Phoenix and GP Dirty Birdy, were imported: don't seem to see either on sale any more. Grab it if you can! Otherwise, Sussex M.C. seems to have some Curare ARTF's from Schweighofer in at the mo................ Bill

Yep I do think the price is (much!) too high, depends on what someone's willing to pay for a "collector's" model. Bob, I totally agree with the sentiment! Martyn, I really admire your building enthusiasm, unfortunately I never was much of a builder or finisher: for me the building/assembling is only the means to an end! That said I DO get a lot out of setting up & then flying/trimming a new model to be as good as I can get it; then the REAL pleasure is in the flying, hence why I enjoyed the F of F Retro day so much.................. Bill

Just spotted this; right era, looks the right sort of period model if anyone's wanting one...................... I've got enough already otherwise I'd 'ave it! Doesn't mention retracts though appears to be trike gear & I believe an OS .61 FSR.

You'll definitely want more pitch............... 5" pitch will give rapid acceleration, but not to the speed needed to fly these models. My DB 60 (GP ARF) runs a fairly old ST .61 on a pipe, turning an APC 11x8 at something like 14K. And it's ballistic. So I'd suggest you need 7-8ins pitch to get the practical top speed. IMHO, the "2 BHP" figure is just a number, esp at some unattainable rpm; what you need is an engine/pipe/prop combo that'll give useful rpm & thrust to give the speed, on what will still probably be a 7-8lb aeroplane. So I'd start with an 11x7 or x8 (probably too much initially) & pipe to suit.................. Bill

Hi Martyn, just caught up with your thread again.............. I take it your Webra is the .80, as it's pumped with red head & carb cover; if so it'll turn large pitch props really well! Bill Webra fan..................

Hi Steve & Martyn, remember, you can (or SHOULD!) only rotate the cylinder on the MVVS BEFORE it's been run, to avoid differing wear patterns/ovalling the bore,etc............. ie choose your option from new, then stick with it............ Bill PS I've acquired a Webra Speed .61 (side exh) that'll need stripping, cleaning, new bearings etc, for sometime in the future. AND it's got a Dynamix carb! (took me ages, a long time ago, to learn how to set it up; see if I can remember now!)

Sadly can't make this one Steve, would'a had TWO models this time! Work gets in the way (again!) but at least it pays for the hobby (sort of!) Bill

Hi Nigel, & welcome! I looked at the Phoenix 7, it was my first choice but missed the sale............ Yeah, too slow again.......... but managed to get a similar ARTF, the GP Dirty Birdy, same era.. All I can say, is GO FOR IT! Really different type of flying but a lot of fun & something completely different. I'd say the P7 would be equally good, expect FAST, probably not lightweight (!), pref with tri-gear retracts for the best package. FWIW, my DB is a missile at 8 1/4 lbs but is great fun to fly, esp off Barkston's main runway! PS, it's MORE than "up to the standard"............. any model from that era works well ( I now also have a Kwik Fli Mk3 which is different again, much slower but just as much fun) Regards, Bill

Great day out! Will let Steve make a more considered response/summary.............. 'bout that comment "weather's looking good for the weekend" Steve............... Good flying by all, especially Martin Mc Intosh with a whole FLEET of Retro models in 'is van Bill

Hey Spiros! Good to see you on here............ Really enjoyed my visit last year, unfortunately can't make it this year as no time-off available but look forward to another visit, hopefully more sightseeing next time if the weather's better! Regards, Bill & Di

I visited there for the first time last September: can echo all the positive comments about atmosphere, friendliness, flying availability, wife/family facility, etc. We took a "top room" which I really recommend for the view, balcony, etc. Regarding the models: yes many ARE used by all levels of fliers so the more well-used ones get tatty; radios are set up on a basic programme so not lots of fancy mixing on the aerobatic models, but they do the job; remember, you're effectively "borrowing" the models so if something ain't right, TELL THEM! ( problems will be attended to or the a/c grounded till time permits); you're NOT supposed to change ANY carb settings as they're supposedly set rich for prevention of overheating during the hottest times: this does sometimes result in the engines being TOO rich at WOT and idle, so just get the guys to adjust so there's NO risk of a rich-cut in flight.............. you defo DON'T want to land out in the thick thorn-bush!. Having said all that, I had a great time & flew a lot of models (some of which I wouldn't normally, so just for the hell of it!). The "insurance" is good peace-of-mind, but some of the more expensive models have an extra "excess" in case of bad damage: THESE are the ones to go for if you're a good flier, as they're generally less-flown, better fliers & more capable (I flew an Ultimate, T28 & Katana which were brilliant fun). Great facility & would definitely recommend, and look forward to going again when I next can. Hope this helps. Bill

Hi Martyn, some comments from me if that's OK: This is a RACING engine, ie designed to turn a small dia fan at silly speeds, it will probably have little useable throttling and torque at 10-12000rpm as it's ported for very high speed operation and will DRINK fuel................. LOL. And the noise................. IMHO, you'd be better off with a modern (or classic) side exh sport engine, or if you can find one, a "period" rear exh .61 eg Webra (speed or LS), ST X61, OS .61 VF or RF, or Rossi/OPS etc. Great purchase but not suited to a Pattern airfrme IMO............. Best regards, Bill

Wow Martyn................. CG Falcon 56 (Mk2 an' all!) T'was my first rc model, still have a soft spot for that one. Was absolutely viceless and a great trainer, even at the 5000ft altitudes (AND 25-30deg C) in SA. Had it for several years & sold on to finance my second/third model. They don't make them like that any more............... Bill

Hi Bob. A lot of the weight is in the wings & their over-engineered joiner, fuz seems quite light, as do the stabs. Am using an 11x8 initially to get the engine on the pipe & in its power band, remember this is an "old-school" short-stroke .61, in t'old days the normal prop was MK 11x7 3/4 (or wood equivalent). The SF is a longstroke engine, so the prop you're using is ideal (12x10 to 12x11 or the Wide that you have). I still have some of those but they'd be too much on this engine, the most I'd be able to use I reckon, is 11x9 or 12x8. For now, this one works & isn't too noisy due to the small diameter. The model slows down OK, and once the nose is up, can be nicely controlled with a trickle of power for a nose-high landing (sweet!). I love the classic "fish" shape, especially in the air. It's a bit of a "road-runner" on takeoff, but once up & going, flies nicely, sweet rolls and BIG loops. Uses a fair amount of sky................