Brent

Ok so after deciding to return to the hobby while I recover from a few medical problems I thought id get few planes again and try and have some fun. So after paying a visit to Leeds model Center at crossgates I came away 200 quid lighter :/. Decided a nice quick way back into the air that's not ARTF will be this little extrim 3d. never heard of artex but the wood looks to be stamped with graupners name so that's possibly a good sign. The kit was 69.99 but when you add a tranny n receiver and lipos and other stuff it all adds up. just unboxing now so will take some photos and get them on here asap. anyone built and flown this model?

Thanks matian. It does fly well doesn't it. Also flys very scale like . Like I say she should be a real floater and at 14lb in weight then thats pretty damn good . That means room for installing a removable camera for flight videos etc.

Just found a video of pavalos cub flying. From the video it looks to be a nice floater so I doubt stainless steel will be an issue in the weight side of things

Thanks Trevor il give him a call tomorrow. black and white will be fine and I can slightly adapt the plan to shave it down to size thanks again.

Subscribed and watching with interest

Posted by Trevor Rushton on 11/09/2014 21:17:57: Brent, not sure where you are, but if you can find a reprographic company in your yellow pages they will probably be equipped to print large architectural plans. There is one in Sutton Surrey that I have used before for large plans trevor Thanks for that Trevor, I am currently in St James's in Leeds but do live in Barnsley South Yorkshire I will see what I can find on the online yellow pages. thanks for that info, That now means tomorrow will be a day of phone calls and emails to hopefully find one of the company's can help me. Thanks ever so much again. Its nice to find an online forum with people that are only too pleased to help it defiantly makes it a nice environment that's as close to the atmosphere of being with fellow flyers down at the field.

thanks Matian, the metal work is beyond my skill but the wooden side isn't. hopefully Paul will teach me when building the fuselage. That way I can start and extend my skills of this hobby . with wood and fiberglass we reach a limit. that's when its time to tackle something like this to extend our skill and take our models to the next step and I intend to for the pleasure of being able to do so plus I am sure the fuselage will outlast the lifetime of wood. meaning a model with longer lifespan just requiring a full restoration like the full size every so many years. I cant wait to get started but for now I have a massive shopping list of parts and steel tube to order bit buy bit before I can do anything. at least when I get home in a few months I will have a big pile of parcels to open and lay out for the first picture to start the build thread with . We are also going to build Pavalos scale under carriage because at most it will cost around 30 quid for the materials which is better then paying Robart 100 quid plus for there's. I haven't decided on an engine for this project but defiantly want a twin cylinder to have the cylinders hanging out of the cowl like the full size. so if anyone has any recommendations for a suitable engine that should do the trick please do comment. iv always had single cylinder engines and never owned a petrol one. don't want the best because I cant afford the best and probably will have settle for a good second hand engine for this cub, I am saving to get a dam good radio setup in 2.4ghz because 35mhz just aint guna cut it I think haha. time to upgrade like I should have done years ago. Thanks for the reply's because its driving my motivation into starting this project.

you and me both, I need to do something to keep my mind occupied and this is just the thing. been unable to work at the moment and being stuck in hospital is getting me down so I am doing as much research as I can because of all the free time I have. |I want to build a scale model that's unique and stands out from the rest and cubs are everywhere you look at the fields. however this will be different from the rest due to its construction. if I had the money id buy the kit but I feel I will have more fun doing this from scratch. I need to print the plans so I can make adjustment's to the plans to make it how I want it but because I am no good on cad or anything like that I will have to do it the old fashioned way lol. print out the plan n then make adjustments which will be easier for me then have the plan reprinted and a digital copy kept in pdf format. I will be redesigning the wing to be scale. t already uses the full size aero foil however I want to build the ribs as per the full size and use the same mounting methods as the full size. so I have lots to do whilst I am stuck in here. then there's locating company's to supply the awquard size steel tubes and so forth. I am hoping by the time iv finished my chemo and had my stomach out I will have all the materials ready and plans printed so I can make a start while I recover and have the remainder of my chemo as an outpatient. my health will be ok docs say because a only 28 and they caught the cancer in early stage so all will be ok thank god. but having this project helps keep my mind of the down side and gives me something positive to work to and plan . I just feel lucky I have a friend who is a very experienced engineer to help me with this or it would not be possible to for me to do this project. my friend also thinks he could make an aluminum cowl for the cub as a per the full size. He can make aluminum tanks of all shapes n sizes with complex curves so a small cowl will be easy I am sure for him. il put a link to his website and some of you can view pictures of his work. he can also weld broken fins on engines and so forth. **LINK** Paul can make just about anything and does it all from home. like I say his work and welding and fabricating is some of the highest quality I have ever seen and he thinks this will be an easy job providing we make accurate jigs to assemble and weld the frame in. I am trying to persuade him to look into offering his services to modelers because anyone making large scale aircraft will benefit from his skills for making one off component's and items providing you give him the drawing and measurements of the part required.

I here your concerns but the original designer to the cub I want o build does say it works out slightly lighter and stronger then a wooden built model. only marginally of coarse. however after watching some of his videos of his model flying I have to say it fly's amazingly well indeed . I just cannot afford over 2500 pounds for his kit that he offers. especially when my friend is a highly skilled engineer who makes custom parts for motor bikes and has all the equipment to build the fuselage. I could actually build the model for less then 700 that's covered. so all that money im saving could buy a nice satio twin cyl for up front and a nice radio install complete with a dam good quality failsafe etc and still have money left over. here's the link to his page with all the info about his. **LINK** Even Toni Clark a well know modeler recommends and stocks his kits. you should also look at his 1/3 scale grass hopper and his bucker jungmeister and storch.

Im currently working on my winter project which is a j3, iv started by locating some plans but struggling to find anywhere to print them off. the fuselage plan dimensions are 90.56 inch x 41.33 inch. the plans need to be printed off asap so I can measure up how much materials I need so I can have my friend start and cut and weld up the fuse because its being built out of stainless steel tubing rather then balsa. im trying to make a model of a j3 that not only measures up to be scale but is bilt nearly identical to the full size which also means it will be built up ribs rather then just sheet ribs. heres a quick sample of the fus I should end up with once completed. So any info of where I could get the welding jig plan sheet printed would be great because it will take some time for my friend to fabricate the fus and hopefully il be out of hospital when its due to be completed so I can start a proper build thread on the build of this model whilst I recover. Any help would be great thanks guys

Erfolg the 3 view of the fus that I have is from piper them selves at 1/10th scale both frame work pattern for the jig for the sides top and bottom and cross members, however I do not have the wing drawing from piper but I do know the bob nelitz 1/3 scale cubs wing was designed from that drawing yet again from piper aircraft so if I can get a pdf image of his wing plan I can resize to 1/4th to provide the scale wing my cub. I would need to make adjustments to pavalos wing struts and the way they mount to the fus by a few adaptions but really its only replacing what he changed. on his 1/3rd scale cub designed after the 1/4 he went and did the original cub designed wing and fus so he must have found it was easier and possibly less messing around and to go back and redesign the 1/4 scale cub and then build it to ensure it works and then have to remake all the cutting files he probably thought it was best left as is. Here is his magazine review of his 1/3rd scale... now this is mega and if ican produce something half as nice in 20 years from now i'l be proud. **LINK** Please note you require adobe reader for the link to open, I think il go with an aluminum control panel also . I wish I had more room I would love to build his 1/3rd cub from plans. But anyone who loves cubs must check that link out I promises you will not be disappointed

Here's 2 pics I found of the super cub with spats and I think it makes it look a little different from other cubs. which gives it a little more character. what do you guys think? should I do the super cub or the typical j3, you don't see as many super cubs as you do the j3

In reply to levantor3.... I am going with stainless steel for its strength, polishing the weld up after is not a problem, I do recall Paul having buffing equipment he uses to polish his own welds and also has a large selection of cutting pastes in his workshop. Also mild steel is actually not as easy to get as stainless in the sizes required. im going to stick to the tried and tested method so the project does not fail because a lot of money will be invested into this model and I did ask Paul if mild steel would be better but he said just stick with stainless steel so that's what im going to do. Pavalo the original designer of his 1/4 scale cub that is the owner of the cub in the photo on the first page mentioned the paint used I just forget what it is so il have to go and check later. he also mentioned an acid bath before painting which shouldn't be a problem because I do recall my local powder coater doing the same thing on my motorbike frame after paul repaired the crack. that too was aluminium and highly polished and when it came out it was dull. I didn't see the process after that because I left but would have loved to see how he did it.   KC I agree, the drawings I have are of the full size cubs framework but certain tubes have been removed from the drawing so as soon as iv put those tubes back in the correct place and removed the additions il be able to measure that drawing via adobe reader at 100 percent zoom and using its built in measuring tool.   Martin I understand there's very little difference between the j3 and super cub, am I right in saying that some super cubs had wheel spats fitted? I am almost sure some did and it makes it look even cuter in my opinion and would be tempted to model the super cub. Thank you for the link I will have a good read later, shame there's no pictures of what parts it is describing for replicating them but amore then sure I can find what I need on Google images unless someone has close up photos of a walk round of a cub. allot of things can be found on the net but sometimes close ups of a certain area can be a pain in the a$$ to find and when you do find them they are usually too pixelated to use it as a reference photo. I wouldn't however like to plumb a tank into the wing and have such a long fuel pipe to the carb it screams out trouble to me. thought would be nice to plumb a wing tank into the main tank that can be isolated if needed. but maybe I am just being too ambitious ha-ha. I will be going yellow on the tubes visible in the cockpit as for the rest of the frame I guess it doesn't matter whether it be green or black or white as none will be visible. also here's the technical specs of Pavalos cub   Wing span: 2680 mm. (105,5 inch Length 1780 mm. (70 inch Wing area: 100 dmq. (10.76 sq. ft.) Weight: 6/7 kg. (13/16 lbs.) Power: 20/27 cc. (1.20/1.60 cu. in.) four stroke Wing-load of only 67g./ sq.dm.   Edited By Brent on 08/09/2014 13:44:46

One thing I am short of for this build is some info and pictures on the full size cubs control cable system as I do believe the full size uses a pull pull system for both rudder and elevator and this is something I too would like to incorporate into the model for weight saving and also due to it being a scale working part. I also seem to be struggling to find any info on navigation lights of the full size because this is yet another feature I would like to include in the build. I don't want to go over board but would like to have these features included in the model but only if it does not push the weight up by a great amount. I will also have to set a weight limit target but until we buy all the materials and do some math's that will have to wait. There is still allot of info to find and the drawings I have need to be changed and adapted to be of a more scale-ish appearance. It isn't like il be entering a scale competition but I guess this will be a great test and practice for if I do decide one day to build a model for scale competition because it would be a nice achievement to take part in. Its also a shame that most of the scale detail will be under the covering but photos of the build and a build thread will show people what they cannot see on the finished model. I am also hoping that I can hide the servos under the wooden floor like the full size cub has but will have to take some measurements to see if this is possible. if not I could hide them in the luggage compartment behind the rear seat. One thing I want to do is do a full scale cockpit with no wires or servos insight and I am also going to see if Paul can replicate the full size fuel tank to fit behind the cockpits control panel. I will be using a petrol ( unsure what type but may go glow if i can find a small twin cylinder engine for a good price) and Paul can build aluminum tanks for motorbikes so this should be easy for him to do, id also like to have a scale filling cap like the full size which is located just in front of the cockpit window glass on the upper forward turtledeck, Depending on the size I could even have him make a wing tank like the full size which can feed the main tank to extend the duration of flight time which maybe good for a glow twin engine because as of yet I don't have the dimensions of the full size tank to scale down to work out how much fuel it will actually hold. all I do know is the secondary wing tank will have to be perfectly located over the CG point to avoid any balance issues. This all may seem extreme but I want to create a challenge for myself and be able to enjoy all the research and have the model look just like the full size and have features very much the same as the full size. But more importantly I want it to stand out from other cubs and these so call artf's because in the club I am a member of we have allot of skilled modelers that design there own models and don't entertain artf's so I was sort of taught the older ways by them and I find the hobby so much more fun and enjoyable building a model for months to later see it fly for years to come. I just think its time I took my hobby to the next level and start and push the boundaries a little to make the hobby more interesting.

Well my friend Paul who is the engineer will understand all the properties, he has been an engineer for over 50 years. He specializes in welding Stainless and aluminum parts as well as makes them. he has computerized lathes and can weld just about anything. He spent the best part of 20 years working in Barnsley college as head of engineering. I am more then confident in his experience and knowledge and did ask what I was going to do with the airframe after it had been built to protect the frame from the elements. One option is to have it powder coated which I know of a place that did my motor bike frame after Paul welded that after my crash, or I could get in touch with my other friend Wayne who is brilliant and works with car dealers and goes round repairing paintwork and spraying new panels up for them on new cars, its actually surprising how many new cars have to have repairs to the paintwork before they even clock up any miles or are handed over to there new owner. So I could have him spray the whole frame with a cub yellow or another colour. however either way I will be protecting the frame with a form of paint just sure which method will be the lightest but most durable. As for the expansion of the metals Paul will be testing to find out how much expansion / shrinkage there will be before we start to build the actual fuselage and we will also be carrying out pressure tests on the welded samples and he insists on trying a few different flux's and strengths of solder till he finds one that will be perfect. The last thing I want is they model having a structural failure and causing injury or damage to anyone or anything. Safety will be highly outlined during this project. I am pretty much sure Paul will do a fantastic job as always with this project and I will be taking notes and photos and possibly some videos of how he prepares the metals and how he welds and I will include this in the build thread so other people can see how it is done, a bit like an instructional video which will be educational to other people thinking of doing the same thing as I am about to endeavor on. I also know we will be building jigs for the sides top and bottom and for the undercarriage to help keep all parts firmly in place, For safety I will be looking into speaking to my local model shop in Leeds crossgates in regards to a very good quality fail safe for the model and I will be only fitting good quality servos and so forth to ensure the model is always under control and has reliable parts. Safety in this build is first and I will be taking no chances at all. I appreciate your input erfolg and will show Paul your comments because he will understand it better then myself so rest assured your info will be taking in and Paul will no doubt use the info you have provided. so thank you for your input.