Graham Davies 3
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Posts posted by Graham Davies 3
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Thanks chaps.
I had already wired in a UBEC separate to the ESC anyway. I might however use an independent Radio and/ or retract battery as you suggest in order to stop jammed retracts from soaking up precious power.
Supplier has agreed a refund, so no harm done here...
Graham
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Cuban8, yes, I've given the supplier plenty of opportunity to resolve the issue. We'll see where we get.
This is the issue with trying to save money; it can be expensive! I work in FE supply, and sell my products on the promise of removing the risk of poor quality to my customers. Sadly, this is the reality of buying direct from China; everything is great until it isn't. If you are prepared to lose the odd transaction, fill your boots. In this case, I am (although I expect I'll get some if not all of my money back), but if you pay peanuts, you generally get snoopy...
This ESC is only a month or so old. It was purchased for my current build and sat waiting the correct point in the build. I started testing a week or so before it was due to be fitted. It's now holding me up a bit, but there is no chance my 1/6 scale spitfire is going to be entrusted to a dubious ESC!
Graham
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Hi All,
Thanks again for everyone's input. It really is greatly appreciated and helps form order out of confusion!
So, a little tooing and froing with the supplier has yielded absolutely nothing. Their suggestion as to how to conduct a factory reset (disconnect the power and leave for 5 minutes before re-entering program mode) is nothing short of ridiculous. In my attempts to find a reset instruction, I found the Skywing website, and it's very clear the ESC I have is nothing to do with Skywing! No real surprise, but they can have it back...
Graham
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2 hours ago, leccyflyer said:
That particular fatty Me109 with the profile fuselage doesn't have a plan as such. My pal Bob just drew it up on the depron. based on the profile Spittie dogfighter sat next to it. Both are now in my fleet.
The fatty Me109 with the built up depron fuselage can be downloaded at this page.
https://numavig.com/plans/Messerschmitt-Bf-109-cartoon/
I built one of these from a sketch! It flies better than it has any right to...
Graham
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Simon,
Yes, the spotlight is on the ESC. However, I want to rule out a parameter issue before I call foul. I have asked the supplier how to perform a factory reset (they replied saying "yes, do a factory reset and let us know what happens"...). If I do that, and changes of timing or throttle parameter yield no benefit, then it will indeed go back.
It's difficult to draw conclusions from a like for like test as I can't 'read' the parameters in the known-good ESC. If I could do this, I could match them on the duff one, and I'd know for sure.
Graham
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Thanks Gents,
It's not the prop! So far, none has been fitted. Safety first and all that...
99% certain the connections are good. I solder my own, and whilst I'm far from infallible, I do take care to check my work. It's not at the motor side, because the fault follows to a different motor.
I contacted the seller who also question calibrating to the TX. I re-did this, no change.
I have asked how to do a full factory reset, just in case something is corrupted and not responding to set up information...
We'll see what happens
Graham
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I had tried that Andy. It seemed the most likely cause to me. I'll have another go tomorrow.
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Thanks all.
Connections are fine; made them myself and double checked them.
Tried 2 other motors, same problem, more or less.
Tried the same motor with a different ESC, ran perfectly.
So looks like the ESC is either rogered, or set up incorrectly.
What parameters would you start with?
Graham
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Hi,
I have a generic Chinese 100A ESC that I intend to use to control a 5065 320kv motor. Again, a generic Chinese product.
I can't get it to start the motor correctly. As the throttle is opened, the motor judders without rotating. This continues until about half throttle, then the motor starts, and throttles OK. All is fine unless the motor is allowed to stop, and then starting results in the same problem.
I have tried pretty much every parameter in the set up, and it makes very little, if any difference.
I haven't checked if there's anything silly on the TX (a Radiomaster TX16S), but is there anything obvious I should check? Or is the ESC Donald Ducked?
Graham
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1 hour ago, Chris Walby said:
Hi Graham, you have answered your own question to some extent. Its not the size of the model that's the issue, its the wing loading and sub sequential power needed to drag it through the air. Try adding another 3 lbs to your Ki45 and see how it performs and you might just find your pussycat has a very nasty bite!
Trying to make a kit that people like me won't mess up by adding weight and will retain good flight performance is the goal in my book.
Fancy taming a Moskito?
Very true Chris; a low loading covers all ills...
However, I reckon that Richard's build strategy for these models will also create a very lightly loaded twin. The electrics are very easy. and Richard's models always fly well, so what's not to like?
Graham
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I too don't understand the aversion to twins. My first foray into foamboard was a Ki45, and it flies amazingly well. It's around 60" span, weighs about 3lb and flies on a single 3S 2200 pack for around 4 minutes. It's a total pussycat, and is one model that will always get watched at my club. I will be doing more, and would put my name on whatever Richard wanted to produce. No such thing as a bad twin, in my book...
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I love my Regianne Re2005; be great if you did it properly! Or a Maachi....
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Thanks FF,
In the air, and then in a field somewhere nearby...
I have had the system over a year and conducted hundreds of range tests. I think we can rule out range checking technique!
Going back to the start of the post, I had range issues, and have spent a lot of time optimising antenna orientation, etc. These issues have never been fully resolved and recent failsafes/ crashes have brought this to a head. The problem has manifest in at least 3 receivers, in numerous installations, and resulted in several failsafe triggers. One of these brought down a model, another led to a forced landing that did some damage.
I had hoped that I was doing something dumb, as that is certainly within my capabilities!
Graham
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3 hours ago, John Muir said:
I agree GG. I range test on reduced power and walk until the controls stop working. That's usually well over 80 paces with FrSky gear. I check the RSSI at that point and reckon that should be my 'Oh No' number. It's generally at about 30. The default warning values usually work fine in flight but I do have one receiver that reports RSSI values consistently about 10 less than the others, so I reduced the RSSI alarms for that one to avoid being annoyed by that lady in the box when I'm flying. The range is not an issue, just the RSSI calibration is different. Going by RSSI numbers alone as a guide to range is pointless.
Here, you have nailed the issue...
I completely agree regarding the RSSi 'crying wolf'. This is my first telemetry set, so was aware of the 'too much information' issue. HOWEVER, and this is the big BUT; I can get nowhere near 80 paces. I get a bit over 30 paces. That never seemed like a comfortable safety margin. I mean, how calibrated is a british standard 'pace'? This is my concern, and has been since the start of this thread. The range seems low.
I will try to get out and do a range test with the XJT module, although that may not be for a while
Graham
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Thank you all for your input. A few things:
Outrunner, thanks for this, but whilst I acknowledge the R88s are not the best, I have had issues with 3 different receivers. I don't believe in coincidences; the common denominator is the transmitter. Other receivers may be less sensitive to the issue, but the issue remains.
John, Yes I'm aware of this. All the clone receivers have been fine tuned to within an inch of their lives. But as above, the problem appears to lie with the transmitter, and specifically the RF section.
Brian, yes, some good advice and comments. I agree that the module takes the RF section entirely out of the equation. Whilst I could use this and take advantage of Jake's previously reliable RF link, the reported low RF still concerns me. Whilst it may be that I have some other (probably intermittent) issue with the internal RF, the low reported RF may or may not be a problem. If it isn't, it makes a bit of a nonsense of RSSi telemetry as I can't draw any conclusions from it! It's not a bad idea to 'fly' the gear in a model with another control link, but this is a very variable test. I was really hoping to just buy some gear and use it! I accept that Radiomaster is a 'budget' brand, but it was still £300, so would hope it had the primary function covered. Not that I'm knocking the brand; we all don't need to go there without really knowing what is happening.
Graham
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Update:
Thanks to Jake Bullit, I now have a genuine FrSky XJT module. My reasoning for adding this was based on Mike Blandford's report of potentially weak signal from the CC2500 based chipset internal Radiomaster MPM module. Having never seen an RSSi figure better than at most 90dB, this tended to corroborate Mike's findings. The hope would then be that the XJT module would improve the RSSi figure in an exact like for like situation. Whilst this is at best a comparative test, it would at least demonstrate an improvement.
Having tried the XJT, here's what I know...
I haven't yet been able to do a direct A/B comparison with a brand new genuine FrSky X8R receiver. I can't bind to the XJT module, which I suspect may be a firmware thing. I will update the XJT firmware and try again later.
However, I Was able to do an A/B with a radiomaster R88. Whilst this may not be the best receiver from an absolute range point of view, the fact that I could reasonably quickly swap between internal and external module without affecting the orientation or distance between TX and RX once again gave me a comparative test. And here's the kicker...
I get a better RSSi result from the internal MPM than I do with the XJT. This is the worse possible outcome to me, as it is utterly inconclusive. I am now back to square one.
There is one tiny bit of evidence that may be a lifeline towards diagnosis. I'm yet to thoroughly investigate this, but on an occasion where I rebound the X8R to the internal MPM, after creating a connection, the radio briefly reported telemetry lost, and the green light went out. It looked like the power dropped (quite possible as I was using old switchgear and NiMH pack for the sake of testing). However, usually when I turn off the receiver, the telemetry lost report takes a few seconds to report, so there may be something else happening in the RF or telemetry link. This opens up point 1 below...
- Is the RSSi figure a total red herring and the problem is somewhere else?
- Would I have the same issue with the XJT?
- I still have very little confidence in my gear
- I will finish a 1/6th scale spitfire in a few moths, and there is no chance I'm committing aviation unless I find a way to restore confidence.
I'm not too sure how to get out of this. I could simply replace the gear, but what with? If I retain the receivers, am I going to do any better? If I swap brands, that's a lot of money. If I stick with what I have and break another airframe, that's also a lot of money...
Do I make a sacrificial model and simply fly until I have tested all my receivers and rebuilt my confidence? Trouble with that is, if I get one single failure, I'm back to square one. But until I can find a smoking gun, I don't see that I'm ever going to trust this otherwise excellent radio.
Can anyone suggest a way out? Or a therapy group? Or maybe a new bourbon to try...
Graham
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Thank you Jake.
What receivers do you use with the ELRS module, as a matter of interest?
Graham
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Morning Mike, all,
So on the face of it, a FrSky XJT module restores my signal link confidence and all is well in my world...
Apart from the fact that I can't get hold of one! It appears that FrSky no longer sell them...
Mike, you mentioned 'other MPM modules' that gave you 100dB at 5 ft. Can you tell me what they are please?
Are there any good quality, reliable TX modules that will fit my TX16S that will work with D8 and later FrSky telemetry receivers? Preferably that are available to buy!
Thank you
Graham
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1 hour ago, Mike Blandford said:
The DJT is no longer legal in the UK and Europe! In any case, it only supports The FrSky 'D8' protocol and the older 'V' protocol.
The XJT does also support the 'D8' protocol, but is really intended for the 'D16' protocol that the X8R uses.
I just checked a XJT in my TX16S and it works fine (so the hardware is OK, I don't know about edgeTx as I use erskyTx).
Mike
Perfect, thanks Mike
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Hi All,
Following on from my post relating to range issues on my TX16S Mk2, I'm going to try an external module. It appears that the CC2500 chipset in the standard multi protocol module MAY be responsible for a low RF output on certain protocols. From Mike Blandford's results, the FrSky DJT and XJT modules achieve around 15dB more received signal under a comparative test. As I have had range issues, I want to try to tip the balance in my favour.
Can anyone advise a few things?
- If I use an external module in the TX16 (running edge), is everything the same from an operating point of view, apart from just selecting the external module and associated protocols in the model set up?
- Does the RSSi telemetry work the same?
- Has anyone used these modules in a TX16S?
- Has anyone used any other modules successfully in the TX16S? If I'm honest, I'd prefer to use the FrSky ones as I know Mike had good RF results, and I have FrSky X8R receivers
- Does anyone know if the XJT and DJT will work with both the X8R receivers, and also ACCST clones (such as the radiomaster R88s)
- Does anyone know the differences between DJT and XJT? Which is the best to go for?
If one of these works, an additional £40 or so gets me back in the game. Otherwise it's a new TX, which will make me a bit glum...
Thanks all
Graham
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22 hours ago, Mike Blandford said:
I just ran a few tests using a FrSky D8R-PLUS (FrSky D8 mode):
X9D+ with DJT module gives RSSI over 100 at 5 feet.
9XR-PRO with XJT module in D8 mode gives RSSI over 100 at 5 feet.
TX16S with internal MPM in FrSky D8 mode gives RSSI around 85 at 5 feet. (Yes it was fine tuned).
A couple of external MPMs in FrSky D8 mode give RSSI around 100 at 5 feet.
I've always suspected the MPM gives lower output power, than FrSky modules, when using the CC2500 RF chip. I have several MPMs and they all show lower RSSI, some more than others, with, in my case, the internal module of the TX16S the lowest.
Every 3db lower reduces the range by 30%, 15db down would reduce the range to one sixth.
Mike
Mike, thank you for this, I really appreciate this input.
Can you answer a few questions I have so I know exactly what I'm doing?
Does the XJT module fit the TX16S?
If not, which modules do fit, and will talk to my frSky and Radiomaster R88 receivers?
If I use an external module, I presume everything works the same as with the internal module?
Thanks Mike
Graham
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3 hours ago, Michael Barclay said:
Does B&Q look alike take grp cloth and epoxy covering? I do like to cover my models. I have seen it, and it seems very pliable, whereas the original stuff is rigid, which again suits my construction system. But that's the nice thing about foam, there is lots to experiment with.
Hi Michael,
Yes it does! Well, it takes glass cloth and EZkote, or now B&Q water based varnish. I'm in the middle of a 1/6th scale Mk1 spitfire build and have glass clothed the wings and tailplane so far. Certainly better than brown paper/ PVA and much easier to apply to foam.
Mixture of black 6mm and white 3mm...
Graham
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Thanks Mike, that looks pretty conclusive.
So in theory I can use a different module and still use my receivers?
Graham
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Great build Michael. Another foamboard winner!
Graham
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Winter projects
in Foam models
Posted
Little is known of his wartime exploits. He actually stole the Me109 and used it for his own commercial purposes...