Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Looking good Lee......yep Litespan is...er...a bit different to use...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Just a couple more photos (shows how little I've done) I may get the fuselage done tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Ah nearly finished, tail skid and glazing to do and the motor decides to throw a wobbler. Thought I'd just run up the motor everything ok up 3/4 throttle then vibration the 2 little grub screws holding the motor onto its mount keep comming loose. Is this a normal occurence with this type ( emax 2822 ) does anyone recommend screw lock to stop this happening? Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Looking really good Lee......can't wait for the maiden report.... Couple of GOTCHAS with these motors....yes the grubscrews can come loose BUT you can't tighten them too much because the grubscrews act on the outside of the bearing case....tighten them too much & you will distort the bearings. So nip then up slightly & then add a bit more for luck but be careful..... Next, yes I would use a tiny bit of threadlock but only a tiny bit.....put it on the threads of the grubscrew as you tighten them....use the end of a cocktail stick or similar to apply the threadlock so you don't add too much.....excess threadlock might find its way into the bearings.....not good!!! Next...the grubscrews are made of an Edam/Cheddar alloy & will round off as soon as you apply too much torque.....make sure you use a really good fitting hex key....you might find its actually an imperial rather than a metric size. 1.5mm is very close to 1/16th AF until you try & tighten it... Good luck..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Etheridge 1 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Lee, I have been working on my Matador briefly this afternoon and have installed a 5mm ply bulkhead to mount the replacement brush less motor. I am not far off screwing the brushless motor (EMax 2215/20) to the bulkhead with the tiny black wood screws supplied. I assume bolts are not used to prevent crash damage to the motor-who knows? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Hi Mike, mine didn't come with any screws so I used bolts with the nuts epoxied to the back of the former. Regards Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Etheridge 1 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thanks Lee, I must think about the grub scews that link the plastic former to the non-rotating part of the motor. I assumed the grub screws would be prevented from turning as they are retained by the contact of the plastic former with the bulkhead ? I have read the comments from Chris though. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bandit Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Looking very good Lee I've used a Tower pro 2408/21 which has a built in mount and is a right pain to mount, on one of Tom Wrights laggers. The holes in the mount are tapped so I used counter sunk bolts from the back of a ply disk then glued that to the front of the model. I might try the Emax type motor you have, just to give it a try before I build the 3D Fidget for it. Cheers, Chris. Edited By Big Bandit on 09/05/2012 21:47:14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thanks for the advice Steve i'll see if the threadlock sorts it. Chris must admit I never considered what motors use what mounts this being my first electric but I will in future. I suppose you can't complain tho considering how cheap a replacement would be. Sorry about the double post above mods but the site was that slow I'd sent it twice thinking that it had not gone on the forum. Regards Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Double post sorted Lee.....its not your fault...the forum is running very slowly....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 So Lee...how is it coming along? Will we see you at Greenacres clutching your Matador? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bandit Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Posted by Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 20/06/2012 11:28:38: So Lee...how is it coming along? Will we see you at Greenacres clutching your Matador? And the Sharky Lee . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 Sorry I won't be there, you might have seen me throttleling matty, I changed the motor shaft and still the same vibration. Just got back 15 mins ago from caravan hope to get to local model shop tomorrow for a overlander 2826/14 they have a proper mount. Went up t field Monday, grass that long you needed 6" wheels to take off luckily I'd taken the Mini Super as well as the Silhouette which ideal for hand launching. I'm currently knocking up an electric Sharky for one of my club mates whose not been too well lately. All the best to those who go to Greenacres. Regards Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bandit Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Hi Lee, It's not always easy, hopefuly meet up at the Nats in August, the weather looks a bit naff anyway, I've decided to drive up both days as it's only 50 miles. Good luck with the motor for the Matty. Cheers, Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Well thought it was about time I uploaded the final photos of Matty before next year mass build. Regards Lee Edited By Lee Damms on 13/10/2012 19:08:37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Excellent stuff Lee, looks great. Maybe she could come and fly alongside mine at the next event? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Most excellent Lee......she looks really good in the air..... How much power did you need in the end? From memory we were looking at a set up around 140watts from a 1300 LiPo on a 9" prop I think......did that work out?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Etheridge 1 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Nice pictures Lee and I presume your model is quite stable? Mine needed a lot of rudder work when flying and refused to take- off, and on the last try and completed a ground-loop. So my Matador is confined to the loft and I have borrowed the radio for my recently acquired Flair SE5A. However club colleague and friend Peter Bruce has been experimenting with a simple gyro fitted to a Weston Cougar to improve it's taking- off characteristics. He has now managed to get the Cougar to take off by using the throttle only and allowing the giro to input the rudder movements. So I feel I have got to try a giro on the Matador as a simple experiment and get it to take-off. MJE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Interested in your comments about take off and rudder issues with a Matador. My diesel powered Matador always took off with no problem and controlled excellently with rudder and elevator. Can't think for the life of me how such an inherently stable design could benefit from fitting a gyro, it's just extra weight you don't need. I eventually folded the wing on mine through over exuberant looping (my fault, completely out of character), but it's repairable and I'll get around to it one day! The Matador is such a proven design over the last 60 years or so that your problem must be connected to something fairly basic. Overall weight, c of g, trim, control movements. What you describe is completely out of character, I've watched plenty of these things flying in Sutton Park back into the 1950s.. Although I fly electric myself as we'll as IC, they don't look or sound right to me without a proper diesel engine up front, although I'm not suggesting that's yourproblem here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 A Gyro in a Matador Mike......!!!! Sounds like you are treating the symptoms & not the cause......ditching the nickel cells & geared motor & replacing them with a brushless/Lipo set up would save around 1lb & would undoubtedly see your Matador take to the air on gossamer wings..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Etheridge 1 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Its has got the brushless motor set up but of course it also has the heavy Ni-Mh cells. As it is a repaired /recovered 1970's dustbin wreck and the tail is slightly warped and out of line I think this may account for the wing wagging and constant need for rudder inputs? I admit it should not need the gyro but I understand they are light weight and worth the experiment. I note that Colin's matador wing folded up which was precisely why my nephew dumped his/my plane in the dustbin in the 1970's. It has been powered in the past with a PAW1.49 and I think my OS 10. I know I always compare it with my ED Racer powered Junior 60 but that can take off without elevator and on full engine power and without rudder---much better plane! MJE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I think we've covered all of the bases. When the Matador was introduced it was pretty unusual for a 48" span plan to be able to fly well with a heavy super-regen valved receiver, (e.g. Hill Mk2)? heavy dry batteries, rubber powered escapement, (Elmic Conquest)? and be sufficiently stable longitudinally to not need elevator control. There were one or two, (APS Sparky), but in that context the Matador had a well deserved excellent reputation. In free flight mode they'd even fly with a Mills 0.75. i bought the Ben Buckle version about 10 years ago to fulfill a boyhood yearning. I think I'd lost my diesel knack over the years and didn't find the PAW 1.49 easy to start, (didn't like being inverted)? but the Matador flew beautifully and probably would have been perfectly ok with a 1cc motor. Eventually becoming over exuberant and going for terminal velocity dives followed by consecutive loops would have seen Henry J. Nicholls turning in his grave and I should have known better. However reinforcing the centre section is not difficult and is something I would definitely do today. Can't knock the Junior 60 and wouldn't dream of it. However I've still got my Frog Jackdaw (60" inthe loft and that takes some beating. Now that I'm semi-retired that's another one that will re-appear eventually. The plans are available, it would be great to see a few more of those about, It's a later design than the Junior 60 and more contemporary with the Super 60, but personally I prefer it. it's very refreshing to talk about model aeroplanes that really fly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Etheridge 1 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Colin, I have seen other Matadors fly on 'You -Tube' and have to agree they fly much better than mine. My model was originally constructed by my nephew when he was 14 (Now 49) and his building standards were slightly lacking then and hence the Matador which suffered what others would consider two terminal crashes was a bit like a Friday built car. In fairness my nephew became far better than me at model building and flying. Right this moment he is probably heading a team building air bus wings in Wales? I always liked the Jackdaw and have bound old Aeromodeller magazines (1961-63) that illustrate it. I never built a Frog plane though and have to agree certainly from an appearance point of view we should be seeing more Jackdaws today---I have never seen one! I just wonder whether it was more expensive say than the KK Super 60? I would be pleased to hear about the re-build of your Jackdaw and perhaps it should be the subject of next year's mass build? As for the PAW 1.49, I became very familiar with starting it as we flew two examples of the APS 'Simple Simon' plus others with it installed. My nephew also won a combat contest with two combat models complete with the 'blue-head' versions in the past. Best Wishes, Mike Edited By Mike Etheridge 1 on 16/10/2012 12:56:35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal brewer Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 16/10/2012 12:56:00: I always liked the Jackdaw and have bound old Aeromodeller magazines (1961-63) that illustrate it. I never built a Frog plane though and have to agree certainly from an appearance point of view we should be seeing more Jackdaws today---I have never seen one! I just wonder whether it was more expensive say than the KK Super 60? Hi Mike, a couple of prices from 1964.............K.K. Super 60 £5/7/0 (£5.35) Frog Jackdaw £5/18/0 (£5.90) so yes,the Jackdaw was a bit dearer than the Super 60,and that 11/- (55p) would have been a significant amount in 1964...................both superb fliers though, I've had one Jackdaw,and several Super 60's,also a Junior 60,which by coincidence with Colin's earlier post,I used to fly (free-flight) at Sutton Park in the (late) 1950's.................................Mal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Damms Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hi all, after trouble with the motor my mate said try my turnigy 210watt job, result was massive torque swing to left even with an incredible amount of right thrust way too much power. Matty however has a good straight glide with power off rudder at neutral so it will be out with the motor and a new 140watt job will be fiitted, I stuck with the 1300mah 3 cell lipo but needed 20gms weight in the nose for balance she is a real pusy cat to fly, take off was no problem as long as you watched for the torque swing. I bet she'd fly on an 09 glow at 26oz she's much lighter than my mini super. Regards Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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