'Elegant' from Puffin Models

[mr wibbley]

Hi All,

I am the proud owner of a Elegant glider from Puffin models and thought it would be useful for other modelers to read my experiences and for others to add theirs.

So to start....

After a bad experience of a RTF foam glider I went to the other end of the spectrum and purchased a Puffin Models Elegant for £154. I also purchased the reccomended servos (HS-82) motor and speed contoller (a Jetti with a 5A bec for £76 !!!)  and prop/spinner. The whole lot came to over £400. The extras yet to purchase are the rx and battery.

Puffin sent it out next day delivery (£7.50). Well, how nice it is! The  fibreglass fuz is so light and a work of art. There is a seam along the top and bottom. The wing sections are nicely built and come as 4 parts. Unfortunatly these are obviously not built as sets as the leading edge trim does not line up correctly when assembled.

The destructions are ok, a little ambigus in parts. The parts list does not match with those supplied. I guess the kit has been changed along the way but nobody has re-done the destructions.

Next post will be the assembly......

[mr wibbley]

Right, the sticking together bit.

The wing tips are held to the main wing section with metal joiners, The holes in the ribs are not pre-cut. The instructions are no to clear as to where to cut the holes, although the small picture does show it between the main and lower spar. I spent a long time pondering where the hole should be cut. It is a shame that this hole is not pre-cut or at the very least actually marked on the rib.

On cutting the hole for the metal joiner you find the box behind is far bigger than the joiner. This is obviously why the instuctions say micro-ballons are required, but do not say why! I added hard balsa to make the box a sliding fit for the joiner thus saved the use of loads of expoy and balloons. Why can't they make the box the correct size for the joiner?

Tubes are pre fitted for the servo leads. They are not fixed and slide out. I added a dab of cyno to hold them. 6mm carbon tube fits nicely inside this tube and I added a small length to act as a secondary joiner. Thread the servo lead through the wing parts before gluing them. It is far easier. The wings were protected with masking tape around the glue joint, expoy added and pushed together (after trial dry-fits of course) Do the same with the other wing.

The flap and aileron servos are held in with double sided tape (not supplied) Yuk!!! By doing it this way, servos need to be set up before sticking in and are a pain to remove for adjustment. I nipped down to the model shop and got 2 pairs of servo holders that fitted the micro servos. The servos were hot glued into the holder (hot glue is easy to remove) and in turn this holder is screwed to the wing. The recess in the wings were a perfect size for the servo holders, just needing a little extra balsa in the corners for the screws to grip. The tube is too small for servo connectors to slide though, if you use pre-made leads, the plastic connector has to be gently removed. I prefer to make my own. Al's hobbys sell the pin crimpers at a reasonable price.

Space is very tight fitting in the servo lead and connector in this recess is very tight. You could cut off the connector and solder directly, but I dont like doing this, escpecially on new servos. I had to cut a little of the balsa webbing away and gently push the extra lead into the wing.

The fus is marked where to cut the holes for the servo leads and wing joiner, They line up 100% spot on! I know how glassfibre gellcoat can star and crack under strain, so I have reinforced these holes inside the fuz by cutting rib shaped hard balsa and expoy in place. (just put the wing end on to a piece of balsa and draw round to get the shape, cut out slightly smaller and it should fit great).

Next time....joining the wings to the fuz....

[mr wibbley]

Next time....joining the wings to the fuz....A wooden dowel is fitted to the wing root, to locate the wing in the fuz. Im sure this and the whooping steel spar joiner is fine, but I have also added 6mm carbon tube to the two servo lead tubes, 40mm long, protruding 20mm out of the rib. This also stops the servo lead getting trapped between the wing and fuz when assembling.Problem....the hole in the fuz to pass the servo leads through is 6mm. However, a standard servo connecter is wider than this, so will not go through. There is also no way to secure the wings to each other & the fuz. I am guessing that transportation of this model has not been thought of and the wings are designed to be permanantly attached. A call to Puffin models and was told friction alone would hold the wings in place, but a hook and eye system could be made to hold them.I have not solved this problem yet. I could slot the holes in the fuz for the sero connecter to fit through, which I will probably do. As for holding the wings on, I do not like the idea of drilling holes in the fuz to pass a band though and am still thinking of a neat solution.Next time....the blunt and pointy end......

[mr wibbley]

The Blunt end......The T-tail is affixed by two plasic bolts that screw into two alumiminium captive nuts, which in turn are glued to a thin piece of hard wood which is glued inside the fuz at the top of the fin. The instructions are ok, but very scrunched up, making them difficult to follow. The problem lies with the two metal sleeves that are glued to the tail, to reinforce the bolt holes. They are not supplied!! what you actually get is four captive nuts. For me it was simple, I drilled out the threads in two of the captive nuts to make a sliding fit for the bolts, using my lathe. Another example of the product changing, but the instructions not being updated. Now is the time to fit the snakes, I used glass cloth to fix them to the side of the fuz, the instructions suggest using blocks of wood. You are not told how to run the snake for the rudder, other than to cut a hole in the fuz. It would be nice if the hole was pre-marked or better instruction given. The rear of the fin is blocked in with a piece of balsa. Alas this balsa was too thin, too short and the hinge slots that were nicely cut, were off centre. I cut a new one and did the job properly. There is no covering material supplied to cover the rear balsa, so it is a rummage in the junk box to find a suitable piece of covering film. All in all, there are no major problems, it all goes together very well. Just a shame about the blind nuts and balsa.

[mr wibbley]

Update to the blunt end.....If you fix the servos and battery where shown in the plans, the plane is way too tail heavy. I have moved the servo tray so it sits above the speed controller, thinking this would be far forward enough, but it is only just ok for nimh batteries. If doing it again I would move the servo tray as far forward as possible without it stopping the motor being removed. The battery can then be placed further forward, especially useful for balancing with the lighter li-po's. The snake for the elevator is long enoug, but the rudder too short. I used a Sullivan 48" snake. The control push-rods/snakes should, whenever possible, be at 90 degrees to the hinged control surface, alas this is not possible on the rudder, as the exit slot for the rudder snake has to be parallel to the fuz. (I tried to do it properly but there is just not enough room in the fuz) so make sure you cult the slot far enough from the rudder to allow the snake to bend up and down as the rudder moves from side to side. (You will see what I mean when you build one!)

[mr wibbley]

Finishing the inside....

If positioning the servo tray forward, as I suggest, it needs widening slightly and also mounted  high enough so the bottom of the servo is clear of the speed controller. I added some hard balsa either side of the servo mount and planned it down to a good fit in the fuz, affixing with expoy & glass cloth. I added foam strip to the wooden battery holder and two bands of velcro, my normal way to secure a battery. A wooden clip was made to hold the lower part of the tray and expoyed into the bottom of the fuz, the other end sits on the servo tray and is secured by a screw. That way, the rx lives below the battery tray which can be removed for access. I also used a ripmax 4 way servo lead & holder. Each lead has a different colour connector, for easy identification. I swapped the coloured plugs going to the rx with normal black ones and used the coloured plugs on the wing servo leads, that way in the field it is easy to match blue-blue, -orange-orange etc. This was screwed to the front of the servo tray. it cost £9 but will pay dividends at the field.  

[mr wibbley]

The pointy end.....The destructions nicely explain how to find the markings to cut the nose off, for motor-glider use. They obviously spent some time getting this part of the manual right. However, there are no markings!!!! How on earth do you get a reference? A call to puffin and was told to draw round the spinner onto a piece of card, cut it out and slide over the nose to aid cutting. Not a bad idae, but it will very fiddly. Back to my lathe and I turned out the centre of a cd to 40mm. This was then stuck overthe nose with blue-tack. After a bit of fiddling and sighting by eye it looked about right, so I drew round it to get  a mark and cut it off with a fine saw.

Be careful with the next step.. the motor mount can be filed to fit the inside of the nos better but you have to ensure enough motor shaft protrudes to fix the spinner, but not to much that a horrible gap is left between the spinner and the fuz.  found my mount was recessed about 4mm from the front, using the suggested motor/spinner from Puffin modesl. This was ideal and allowed a nice filet of expoy both sides of the motor mount.

The non marking of the nose, but the instructions showing how easy it was to set the thrust lines and cut the nose (usining the non-existent markings) was probably the most frustrating thing of all. What should have taken 15 minutes, took 3 hours Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[mr wibbley]

Setting the servos was easy using my wing servo mounts, I set the arms to give equal movement either side, rather than off-setting them as the destructions suggested. There is very little down movement on the ailerons (or up on the flaps) as the control surfaces are top/bottom hinged, so a computer radio is a must with this model. You can also play with all the glider settings, crow-brakes, full span ailerons etc )

Right the bad points...

Instruction inventory does not match what is supplied and thus leads to conflicts when building

Clevises suppied have to small a slot to fit over the servo horns (bin em & use metal)

cutting marks for nose are not moulded into the fuz as shown in the destructions.

C of G way to far back if built as per the destructions

no trim suppied to cover wing joins (destructions tell you yo cover them) or rear fin spar

No way to hold the wings in place

no thought given on getting wing servo leads into the fuz (I filed slots in the round holes)

[mr wibbley]

The good points....

Nicely made and covered

Fuz is nicely moulded and very light.

Instructions are ok, when compared to most chinese ARTFs.

Puffin Models very happy to assist with after-sales service

looks good

Am I happy with it? would I recommend it?

Yep,  you bet. After the crappy foamie (ok that was £100 all built, inc tx and this cost over £400) it is great. The bad points I have listed are really only minor, I just get really annoyed when the destructions cannot be followed or do not match the product and extra trips to the model shop have to be made for better quality hardware. I am sure many of us would happily build a plane and update the manual, for a small discount in the purchase price. With t'internet, would not take a second to wang a copy to and from the factory. 

Had somebody else posted the problems and soultions they found on the net, I could have built it quicker and better. (hence ever helpful me putting this lot here!!!)

 As soon as spring has sprung, I shall give it a bung (after finding a way to hold the wings on )

Happy flying................

[MooSey]

I have a Pelikan Grace (puffin) which i built post new year. It's virtually identical save the wings.

I had pretty much exactly the same issues as yourself. However I went round these issues slighlty differently.

 Firstly the wing join I found a pleasure. Maybe my instructions were different? The process was well described and the diagram was clear enough. A little modellers common sense required but no drama. My grace had ply spar joiners with an angle set in. The play you have upon cutting the joining slot allows you to increase or decrease the tip polyhedral. Mine fitted nicely and I made a jig of sorts to ensure both wings were set identically.  Covering wise I just used some scrap blue profilm that matched. Tape over this finished the joins.

I don't think you mentioned, but it is a very valid point and that is the wing tip washout. There are no set measurements within the instructions, just a note that washout should be present and matching for each tip. I found using a heatgun and a gentle twist and hold had the tips symmetrical. I have read about other RCM-Pelikan gliders suffering tip stalls because the owners did not complete this stage properly.

I took a different route than you with the servo cables. I just snipped and soldered extensions! Very easy then. 

I had the same concerns as you wrt joining the wings to fuz. I too was suspicious of a friction only fit with the lift force 'locking' them in. I did away with the supplied  incidence dowls  and used carbon tube front and rear at each route. There was dot marks in the wing route and fuz to assist. I then epoxied in matching fit brass tubes to the fuz. The carbon tubes slide into these to affix the wing incidence and beef up the fuz  wing mount area (squashy!!). I just use tape then to secure the wings in place. (I put a 3" strip of blade tape down first to prevent the wing securing tape from pulling off the film). Good enough for my mouldie, good enough for a floater.

I had no issues with the rudder and fin. Mine all fitted nicely and was wel enough explained.

At the nose end I made mine to be a pure sloper so can't comment on the motor mounting problems you faced. Also I did'nt need the battery tray. I fitted the servo tray as far forward as possible with the Rx batt stuffed in the nose.  And yes, My elevator snake was way too short as well!! I fixed the snakes with epoxy up to the wing saddle then expanding PU foam. In fact I filled the entire tailboom with the stuff as the fuz is a little lightweight and fragile. Expanding PU foam adds considerable strength for virtually no weight penalty.

Erm what else? Ah yes control throws. Like you I could get the stated aileron down throw due to mechanical restriction. The 'rons just are'nt bevelled enough. I set them to travel as far down as possible and reduced the upgoing throw accordingly. It's never going to roll like an aerobat but turns are, well. Graceful! 

[MooSey]

Flying wise it is a pleasure. I set the c of g between the stated measurements and this works well. Camber across the wing provides significant lift. I've got the ailerons and flaps mixed for roll to account for the lesser throws. This works well unless full camber is dialled in. A combination of a lot of trim, full camber and low travels give a remarkably lazy roll. Im addressing this by mechanically removing the trim issues and laterally balancing the wings. I found my Tail stabilizer was'nt squarely mounted so im playing with the shimming to help with the trim. Crow braking is a godsend and very effective. All my landings have just floated down.

I initially got my Grace to work as a light wind soarer. It certainly prefers more wind than I anticipated and I just love it's swooping flypasts from altitude. I do though very much enjoy flying it.

There is a certain element of aeromodelling required than your average ARTF, however I believe this is reflected in the price. Whether it's better quality than some Chinese offerings is debateable. Time will tell over the seasons on it's build quality. I also think fully built up wings carry much more setting up requirement than other types due to the nature.

The bottom line is it's a lot of wingspan for not much of a purchase price. The annoying little problems are a pain but ultimately the enjoyment of flying overcomes this.

I have a built thread in progress here. Although it's built and flying I have'nt quite finished yet!

Build thread

[Andy Butler]

Thanks guys,

I was wondering what to go for when I found the Elegant. After your reviews, I'm going to take the plunge I think.

One question remains though, how good a first aileron thermal soarer is she? I'm having regular long flights from my trusty Sonata and I am looking to move to ailerons to improve my skills.

Thanks again.

[MooSey]

Andy

 Are you looking to winch launch?

From my point of view the Elegant/Grace is'nt particularly suited to bungy/winch launches. I don't remember from build anything  about a tow hook. I assume when you say thermal soarer you mean from a flat field?

The wing joiner is a steel bar. It's designed to take loads in the lift plane through the wings. If you put a force through the longitudinal plane I suspect the bar will want to bend. The joiner box it sits in is brass and the wing saddle fuz structure is not exactly forth bridge........

 Both these gliders are primarily motor gliders. They are build around having a motor up front with a big 'ol NimH pack stuffed in.

From my experience of flying the Grace she needs either a bit of slope lift or plenty of thermal lift.

I've had her up when other R/E stringbags were floundering, but equally there was an F3F Aris mouldy cruising way above mine!

I suspect that she was designed first as a motor glider and second as a slope soarer. She seems to need a lick of speed to maintain a good glide path. To achieve the speed or wingloading it probably comes down to being designed around a heavy flight pack

Only my  opinion. If you want to slope soar one of these then fine. I reckon there are more suitable models for ther flat field.

[mr wibbley]

Hi All,

 I have set up my Elegant crow braking which realy helps to slow the plane for landing. Definately worth buying the flap model.  Have not been able to use the glider full camber setup as my Futaba 9C does not allow it with a motor-glider (looks like the 10C does) so I just use the flaps controlled by the side slider on my 9C for thermalling. I'm sure I could use the programmable mixes for full camber and will get around to it at some point, unless I take the easy route & buy a 10C

I too used carbon dowels to locate the wings rather than just relying on the wing joiner & the 2  little wooden dowels supplied. These locate in the servo wire tubes, as I described above. After initial flights, my nimh batteries did not give enough power & the plane struggled, this was with the suggested setup for my batteries from mr puffin models. I put in a 3 cell 2200mAh lithium and it now goes like stink. 13-7 blade, mvvs 3,5 /1200 motor & jeti spin esc with 5A bec.

I have revised the innards thus :-

Moved the lipo to the front, just behind the motor, the battery tray sits above the esc and had to make a little balsa plate for the front of the battery tray so it can sit above the esc. Epoxed in place.  The battery tray is then screwed to the balsa plate so it can be removed to access the exc and motor.

Moved the servo tray to the rear of the cockpit and this also supports the rear of the battery tray. The rx sits on the battery tray behind the battery. All workings are now easily accessable and no longer need to add the lead nose weight.

Have secured the wiings with an eyelets & rubber band through the fuz.

It flies great, a highly recommended plane if you like floating around on a summers day. Don't expect super acrobatics. One person hand lauching is easy and as for landing, bring her in, gently deploy the crow brakes and she slows right down. Ease them out before touchdown as she does not like to flare out otherwise & it also stops them digging in & spinning the plane on the ground.

A little more expensive than some other gliders around but definatly worth the extra. As far as I know, only Puffin sell this model and Puffin are known for being a little expensive. There is a manufacturers sticker in the fuz, ppmodelhobby.eu and this web site is worth a look. I'm sure this plane & the others Puffin sell will be available under another name somewhere........?

[Andy Butler]

Mike,

I spoke to Puffin the other day and was told that while winching is not a good idea, bungee launches should be perfectly practical - but if there's no tow hook.....

I agree with you about having some ballast on board, my Sonata always flies better with 8 ounces of brass padlock over the C of G. Are we building these things too light?

 If you have any suggestion of an large(ish) aileron model more suited I would most grateful.

Andy.

[MooSey]

Multiplex Cularis?

 I've since sold my Grace and am selling an Arthobby Sierra.  Since flying a Mini Blade this spring I've realized if you want the best all round performance moulded models are the way to go.

Hence got a nice 3m F3x glider  on order!