A Returnee's version of a Super Sixty

[Modonaut]

It's surprising how many tiny jobs you can find when you think you've finished a bit of construction, like adding the odd gusset and sanding all the joints etc.
I've finished sanding the nose so it blends in better with the removable hatch.

Had a trial fitting of the tailplane to the fuselage. Although the rubber bands hold the tailplane quite firmly there's no indicated way of acheiving a consistent placement in the instructions so I fitted everything up with bands etc and made sure it was all centred and I added a couple of location 'rails' to the top plate of the tailplane to ensure that it sits in the same place every time. I wondered how  others tackle this problem of making sure tailplane sits in correct place everytime.


Fitted a servo and Rx tray- not yet permanently fixed in position.

Next job after ordering snakes etc will be the wings which as I previously mentioned will be in two pieces.

Edited By Modonaut on 21/06/2013 20:46:17

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Modonaut,

The covering material I used for the fuselage was 'Oratex' which was quite costly. However it is very easy to use and similar to Solartex. I was criticised by others who suggested the material was too modern for a Super 60.

However if you do decide to use Oratex they give you specific instructions on how to cover your plane. The suggestion for the fuselage, I seem to remember was that the bottom was covered first,the sides next and finally the top.

My plane was a rebuild but I was able to retain the Solartex covering on the tailplane but needed to re-profile the elevator which was re-covered with Solarfilm as before. The wings needed a complete re-build which I have yet to carry out so as I mentioned before I have utilised my junior 60 wings which are 50 years old and are covered with doped nylon.

MJE

[Modonaut]

Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 22/06/2013 00:13:46:

Modonaut,

The covering material I used for the fuselage was 'Oratex' which was quite costly. However it is very easy to use and similar to Solartex. I was criticised by others who suggested the material was too modern for a Super 60.

However if you do decide to use Oratex they give you specific instructions on how to cover your plane. The suggestion for the fuselage, I seem to remember was that the bottom was covered first,the sides next and finally the top.

My plane was a rebuild but I was able to retain the Solartex covering on the tailplane but needed to re-profile the elevator which was re-covered with Solarfilm as before. The wings needed a complete re-build which I have yet to carry out so as I mentioned before I have utilised my junior 60 wings which are 50 years old and are covered with doped nylon.

MJE

Hi Mike, thanks for that info. Although I love vintage models I'm not one of those who think everything should be authentically 'old', like using balsa cement and vintage engines etc etc ( I just read an old book by Peter Russell on vintage stuff). I decided on covering with solarfilm right before I started construction, as the most hassle free solution. It's amazing how long these models can last and I was amazed at the strength of the Super 60 fuselage when I was sanding the nose bits. I realise covering with any material of a linen nature gives added strength- many years ago I did do some covering with nylon (I think it was) and it was quite a task.

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Modonaut,

Solarfilm has it's advantages butit does slacken off and often needs a blow over with a heat gun.

The weak parts of the Super 60 and other veteran and vintage models are the wings and specifically the spar structures and centre sections. This seems to be especially so with models that were originally designed for free flight and then converted for RC. Did you read the recent BMFA magazine vintage section about the KK Outlaw wings folding up after a loop?----reinforcement necessary with spuce spars etc I think?

Mike

[Modonaut]

Yes, I was aware of the clapping hands scenario! I must confess to being guilty of the same offence, many years ago with a free flighter that was converted to r/c- it wasn't me flying it, but obviously the model was pushed beyond its capability... I'm constructing the centre section with new ribs out of 3/32 ply and also to incorporate a male/female location device. The kit includes 6 rather weedy 1/16 in ply dihedral braces which encroach on main planes for about two ribs- these I am going to beef up and make longer, although a few here have said I don't need to strengthen up anything on the Super 60.
I think its possible to make a few alterations without adding too much weight on- we'll see...eventually!

[Modonaut]

Working on wings now and have made wing joining device which sits in middle of centre section. All centre section ribs and join 'box' are 3/32 ply, using a nylon bolt and locking nut to hold it in position. In reality I see the rubber bands as actually holding the wings on and all this stuff as positional aid although I think its sufficiently strong for the purpose. I will be adding a slightly heavier ply wing brace than those supplied although I think the wing is pretty strong as it has vertical 'webbing' along the span which I doubt the original free flighter had.

[Modonaut]

I've been busy cutting new lite ply ribs to create new centre section and dihedral strengtheners and have fabricated mountings for inner wing aileron servos and have come up against one of those frustrating problems where I don't have the correct size drill bit to pre drill the screw holes for mounting the servos. Also the screw heads supplied with servos are of such poor quality I doubt they will last long and so have had to order new screws etc. I can't proceed with assembling wing until I know everything is pre drilled correctly and that the servos will fit without any mishaps.

[Mike Etheridge 1]

I flew my Super 60 yesterday and had the usual problems of a couple of 'dead stick' landings. But it was enjoyable and nice to get out in warm sun and light winds for only the second time this year. To overcome flight rustiness I also flew my Twinstar 2 and Cougar.

Another problem with the Super 60 was the Sanwa throttle servo which I will have to replace. It seems rare you can go model flying without something going wrong!

MJE

[Mike Etheridge 1]

One flight of the Super 60 was captured on video by club member Peter Bruce. See Bartons Point club web site BPMFC.

With the old Junior 60 wings that have excessive dihedral used it's a bit of a battle with rudder only control on the Super 60. It did need some rudder trimming but it was easy to fly and ideal for eliminating flight rustiness as I mentioned before. I must try some aileron wings in future.

MJE

[Modonaut]

Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 26/06/2013 14:30:05:

One flight of the Super 60 was captured on video by club member Peter Bruce. See Bartons Point club web site BPMFC.

With the old Junior 60 wings that have excessive dihedral used it's a bit of a battle with rudder only control on the Super 60. It did need some rudder trimming but it was easy to fly and ideal for eliminating flight rustiness as I mentioned before. I must try some aileron wings in future.

MJE

Yes, I couldn't find the video you refered to. Would be nice to see.

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Modonaut,

Try below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rGLbsqArse4

Mike

[Modonaut]

Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 27/06/2013 09:20:46:

Modonaut,

Try below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rGLbsqArse4

Mike

Got it! Nice one- certainly stable with the dehidral. Thanks for the link.

[Modonaut]

After a bit of fiddling and lots of cutting out of new ply ribs I've more or less finished the centre section, but not quite the same as shown on drawings. My centre section has two extra rib bays before dehidral starts- I did this as an aid to acheiving a good flat base upon which to attach the outer wing panels and hopefully be able to set the angle with more accuracy.

I may decide to add another securing bolt nearer to LE- currently there is only one. I had thought one bolt would be enough...as obviously the wing halves in reality are held on by the bands. The centre section has a 1/8 in lite ply strengthener set next to the main spar and its webbing. The outer wing panels will have two 3/32in lite ply braces locking into centre section running almost up to the wing tips
I was going to mount the servos onto the ribs at each end of the centre section but have now decided to use a couple of SLEC mini servo mounters in the next rib bay along as the dehidral starts. The two end ribs where I was going to mount the servos are 3/32nd lite ply laminated with 1/16 balsa so they are quite strong inspite of having a hole cut out for the servo.
The ailerons won't run the whole of the wing trailing edge as shown on plan, but will start where the dehidral starts and should still give a fair size aileron.
The dehidral shown on the plan is 1/2 in at the wing tip and I'm not sure whether to leave it at that or add an extra 1/8 in to that dimension to allow for the dehidral starting two ribs later.

Edited By Modonaut on 29/06/2013 08:11:33

[Mike Etheridge 1]

It all looks very precise and well made and should therefore last.

My Super 60 was acquired from E-bay for £26. The Solartex covering it had masked some very poor construction especially the wings. The planked fuselage sides had been made up with 1/8 balsa instead of 1/4 .When I removed the Solartex from the fuselage the structure fell apart so needed squaring-up and re-glueing. As you can imagine a bodger had been at work! As for the wings I am not sure I can retain any of the structure and probably need to start again? As for costs I think i spent up to £90 re-building the fuselage!

Keep up the good work I very much appreciate what you are doing.

MJE

 

Edited By Mike Etheridge 1 on 29/06/2013 10:54:45

[Modonaut]

Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 29/06/2013 10:53:06:

It all looks very precise and well made and should therefore last.

My Super 60 was acquired from E-bay for £26. The Solartex covering it had masked some very poor construction especially the wings. The planked fuselage sides had been made up with 1/8 balsa instead of 1/4 .When I removed the Solartex from the fuselage the structure fell apart so needed squaring-up and re-glueing. As you can imagine a bodger had been at work! As for the wings I am not sure I can retain any of the structure and probably need to start again? As for costs I think i spent up to £90 re-building the fuselage!

Keep up the good work I very much appreciate what you are doing.

MJE

Edited By Mike Etheridge 1 on 29/06/2013 10:54:45

Thanks for the generous appreciation Mike! I try to build as accurate as I can but with this type of construction things don't always fit perfectly, and making changes like I have can cause anomolies. Now I've done the centre section things should start to move faster- I've got all the snakes and fittings and am still researching which charger to get.

[Modonaut]

Wing construction progress. Still to attach root rib that attaches to centre section and also to put in servo mount (SLEC) Outer panels are attached with aid of two 3/32nd lite ply braces which run whole length of outer panel and encroach into centre section for two rib bays. I still have to test my hinge slotting stuff... I'll probably use mylar hinges with CA, three per aileron. I'll do a test piece to see how stong the assembly is.

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Wings are looking good--where will you route the servo cables?

I had a look at my Super 60 wings in the loft and concluded that perhaps I could do something with them but I will need a complete new centre section. A wing plan would be handy and I may be able to copy one locally as a neighbour who lives opposite me has been building a Super 60 for the last 3-4 years!

I gather from a club member that there was a Super 60 for sale at £60 at the 'bring and buy' event at the Wings and Wheels show last week-end in Harlow. Not a bad price when you consider the BB kit is priced at £83.00.

MJE

Edited By Mike Etheridge 1 on 03/07/2013 20:41:18

[Modonaut]

Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 03/07/2013 20:40:44:

Wings are looking good--where will you route the servo cables?

I had a look at my Super 60 wings in the loft and concluded that perhaps I could do something with them but I will need a complete new centre section. A wing plan would be handy and I may be able to copy one locally as a neighbour who lives opposite me has been building a Super 60 for the last 3-4 years!

I gather from a club member that there was a Super 60 for sale at £60 at the 'bring and buy' event at the Wings and Wheels show last week-end in Harlow. Not a bad price when you consider the BB kit is priced at £83.00.

MJE

Edited By Mike Etheridge 1 on 03/07/2013 20:41:18

Thanks Mike! The cables for the wing servos will go through a hole in the rib at extremety of centre section, just where the dehidral starts. The wings and centre section have been the most intensive part of the build, for various reasons... One wing panel to go, joining them up, and then installing servos and linkages.

I'm already thinking what my second aircraft will be...

Modonaut

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Oh Dear!

My Super 60 was one of four casualties today at the club flying field which despite low winds in most places was subject to a stiff sea breeze. The breeze blew the Super 60 over on take-off and it will need fuselage repairs plus a new propeller. The 50 year old Junior 60 wings survived intact!

MJE

[Modonaut]

Posted by Mike Etheridge 1 on 06/07/2013 00:00:36:

Oh Dear!

My Super 60 was one of four casualties today at the club flying field which despite low winds in most places was subject to a stiff sea breeze. The breeze blew the Super 60 over on take-off and it will need fuselage repairs plus a new propeller. The 50 year old Junior 60 wings survived intact!

MJE

Oh dear, what a nuisance! I think the S 60 is generally quite lightly loaded and more suseptable than heavier models- I wonder how mine will fare...
Incidently, you say the wings survived- did they come off with the bands springing loose?

Edited By Modonaut on 06/07/2013 08:44:44

[Mike Etheridge 1]

Damage to the fuselage is mainly around the weak cockpit area and you could argue it resulted from the tension of half a dozen wing bands which may of course have released and saved the wings? Fortunately the repairs are not extensive but include the replacement of the front canopy which shattered, repairs to some of the Oratex which has split in a couple of places and replacement of the ply engine mount which had fractured.

I had waited six hours for the wind to drop and had I waited another half an hour there would not have been a problem. The plane was set directly into the wind which had become variable. However once the plane took off it was hit immediately by a strong gust of wind on it's port side which turned the plane over and gave me no chance to respond. The three other planes that suffered damage were a Curtis biplane caught also by the wind on take-off, a huge Spitfire affected by lack of engine power on take-off and a Hawker Sea Fury on landing. Fortunately all three were not badly damaged.

MJE

[Modonaut]

Finished right hand wing and sorted servo mounting and have started on left wing. This won't take very long now I've solved all the fitting problems on the right wing...

[Modonaut]

Put together basic left wing panel in a couple of hours and waiting to dry so can attach leading edge.

The right wing took much much longer to assemble- it's surprising how quick things can be when you don't have to sort out various problems... In this pic you can see the two 3/32nd lite ply wing strengtheners which glue into the centre section- they run right to the tips of the wings.
This model could well be finished by end of month, depending on all the various summer domestic arrangements which tend to crop up.

Edited By Modonaut on 09/07/2013 15:25:52

[Ian Skeldon 1]

Hi Mike, Hi Modonaut,

Ahh the old super sixty eh, I must have build, flown and crashed a few over the last 40 years.

For what it's worth here are a few things that relate to this particular model.

1. Ailerons don't work very well due to the wing section, be prepeared to use rudder to bring the nose round and again to straiten up.

2. I think Mike mentioned the wing spars as being a weak point? Absolutely right, adding some working wire bracing has worked well for me over the last errr about ten years.

3. Engines, I have flown mine on an OS 22 four stroke, it flies ok but can't cope well in any wind, also used a super custome 30 four stroke which was faulty as bought from new and I had to fix! and also flies very well on an old OS25fp.

4. I nearly always need to add more right thrust and some more down thrust than the plan shows.

5. Not tried snakes, must try that at some point.

5. Slec round tank fits nicely but always ends up leaking at the screw top.

6.Elastic bands to hold the UC in place is fantastic, on any bumpy landing mine swing through 180 and everything just stops dead.

7. This model will themal quite well but do watch out for those wings if you start diving out.

Enjoy

[Modonaut]

Hi Ian, thanks for those observations! I don't have a clue as to how this thing will fly but will bear in mind your warning about ineffective ailerons- maybe that's why the plan shows ailerons the full length of the wing... As for the wing section, the Clark Y is not uncommon on very many models of a docile nature.
Already noted the need to strengthen up the wings as you can see from the past blog.
The undercarriage will be made up from piano wire and I will very slightly extend the ground clearance from that shown on the plan with the dural one supplied.
As for thrust angles, we planned to take care of this with the Tx settings. Time will tell.

I'm curious, Ian, as to how you came to build more than one Super Sixty? One observation re the ailerons. There appears to have been many versions of the Super Sixty and I would guess earlier versions had much more dehidral than the current 4 channel version I'm building, where the dehidral is a mere 1/2 in under each tip. Looking, just now, at a Spitfire from the front I'd say that a model at just over 60 in would have more than 1/2 in dehidral at the tips. I know they are very different animals but its interesting to note.

Edited By Modonaut on 09/07/2013 21:02:43

Edited By Modonaut on 09/07/2013 21:05:52

Edited By Modonaut on 09/07/2013 21:13:13