f3ktony

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/07/2011 15:35:01: BTW Peter, congratulations on your limited suceess in obtaining at least some access to your local parks. But you see our, perhaps slightly slower, but certainly more "user friendly" approach, gives us all day access, 365 days of the year and allows the flying of electric, IC and gas turbine models. Amazing what you can achieve with a little subtlety, tact and diplomacy isn't it?   BEB Free access for all - or only members of the club? Some access is all I/we want, a blanket ban is unjustified in most cases I suspect. Of course it's getting out of hand Spice Cat, on one side you have the health and safety/risk assessment/by the book brigade then you have the lone flyers/mavericks/bad people on the other. Common sense is to be legislated out of us and we must all comply to whatever laws the authorities deem necessary to keep us safe. Most of us have more chance of being killed or injured or killing, injuring others just getting to our flying fields.   Tony @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

I started this thread so that Peter would hopefully contact me so I could learn how he managed to persuade Enfield to change their byelaws - success. Peter may be a bit keen, but that's what you need to be to cut throughout the official bull sometimes. I wonder how many youngsters and their Dads have been chucked off a park or recreation ground for flying a park flyer and then lost all interest in the hobby because of some miserable jobsworth and their draconian rules. Sometimes these jobsworths don't even know the byelaws, see the previous threads I link to in the first post.

Funny how Peter got Enfield to change their byelaws to allow model flying in their parks if he has 'the wrong attitude'. Don't fight the bureaucrats, use the media to get what you want when to normal channels fail. Bureaucrats do not like media coverage of themselves, especially if it might look like they're being jobsworth killjoys. I have been in touch with the BMFA, had one reply to my 3 or 4 emails so far asking for clarification of the DEFRA vs. DCLG byelaw documents and advice for when I go to the parish council meeting next Monday. Clubs have their uses, I belong to one and enjoy the meetings, BBQs, etc., but I prefer to fly by myself at a field I can walk to as against a half hour drive to one of the two less than suitable for glider fields that the club uses (one in a park!).

@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css); There are big parks and there are smaller parks, there are busy parks and parks where you might be the only person on it, and there are big models and there are smaller models. 2.4GHz has all but made frequency problems a thing of the past, frequency clashes are/were probably the main causes of loss of control. It might be good if the government departments responsible for this area of legislation sang from the same song sheet. DEFRA's byelaws doc - (online version) dated 11/06 it appears Communities and Local Government doc (download) dated May 2006 This is an interesting area on the DEFRA site: 4.4 If a byelaw-making authority is applying under one of the following Acts: the Open Spaces Act 1906; the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949; or the Local Government Act 1972. and it is satisfied that the activities which it wishes to regulate may be adequately covered by a model byelaw it should obtain a copy of the up-to-date (my emphasis) the Defra website at ..... (removed to avoid links) The minutes of the BMFA Full Council Meeting held on 6th January 2007 has this on page 25:   'We have had some success with our negotiations with DEFRA in relation to the Bylaws document. Originally in their draft bylaws what they had put forward was somewhat more draconian than the existing bylaws. They seem to have rationalised the bylaws for other activities such as horseriding and walking etc. but increased the regulation on model flying. When challenged on this they related it directly to the fact that there had been a fatality in recent years with model flying. However we challenged this and they seem to have taken on board a lot of the arguments we put forward. Now the bylaws relate only to power driven model aircraft and aircraft below 500grms are no longer covered by the bylaws, which is a reasonable result.'   I also like the 'Why are the byelaws necessary?' section on the DEFRA document, it would/will be interesting to see what councils put in these boxes.Edited By Tim Mackey - Administrator on 10/07/2011 22:24:08

@import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css); Councils are using this document dated 2005 that they will then cut about to suit their requirements (from the Communities & Local Government web site.   Lawford Council's minutes for their meeting in May 2009 has this entry - 'The byelaw advert had appeared in the local press and will run for 1 month, if no comments are received it is hoped they will come into force.' Unfortunately I didn't see the notice so the byelaws probably went through without any comment from anyone. The byelaws were signed by the Chairman and Vice Chairman of the council on 8th July 2009 and by P. Rowsell, Senior Civil Servant, DCLA on 28th July 2009.   As far as I'm aware no complaints have been made to the council regarding model aircraft being flown on the Lawford recreation ground. This is something I will try to find out. If a complaint had been made I would like to think that I would have been informed, at least one councillor knows I fly models there as he walks his dog on the field and we have spoken while I was flying.   Ben - where does the the info. in your second post come from? @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);Edited By Tony Merritt on 29/06/2011 18:52:12

Thanks Tim.   Tom - I'm splattered all over the 'net, finding me is not difficult. I use an image of my email address so the spambots can't trawl it off the page. I'm hoping the Mr. Antoniou will contact me too.   Tony - you'd have thought Bentley Green was big enough for any and all types of activities to take place at the same time! Gt. Bentley Parish Council - no link to their byelaws but an email to the clerk for them would no doubt work. No need to tell them why you want them.   Allan I found this after more searching - BMFA minutes Jan. '07 - which mentions the 500g limit on page 25. I've not found out yet if this is law or where it stands at the moment.   James - I think as they define a model aircraft, the vehicle bit is for land based vehicles. @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

Sorry Tim, I do know better, I was just lazy. Is there a way I can edit my posts like on other forums I use?@import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

I have been flying electric r/c models at my local recreation ground since 2002, two days ago I was approached by a parish councillor and told that I could not fly anything from the field. The only notice at the main entrance to the field mentions no dog fouling, no motorcycles and no golf. I asked for a copy of the byelaws which have now been supplied to me - see here - I can fly my pure gliders OK and any model over 7kg   There are two other threads regarding byelaws on the forum - here& here - trawling the Internet I came across this news item - London Standard - I hope that Mr. Antoniou might see this thread and possibly tell us how he got Enfield council to change their byelaws and how he is getting on with the country wide change.   I have been in contact with the BMFA, I will also approach one of the parish councillors that I know well to discuss the problem.   Have other modellers had problems recently? Has anyone been able to get councils to change their byelaws on model flying?   Tony Edited By Tim Mackey - Administrator on 29/06/2011 17:08:38

May thermal soaring events that I know about.   9th and 10th May - F3K at Lawford, nr. Manningtree, Essex   17th May - BARCS Open, Ipswich Model Club, Ramsey Farm, Hadleigh, Suffolk.   23rd - 25th May - BARCS Radioglide, F3K, 100S, 200W/Kg & F3J - Marsh Gibbon, Oxon.   For details of all these events see the FlyQuiet and BARCS sites.   Contact me at  (Oops it's a bit big, but it'll do.)   Tony

Nice prize - 2nd time lucky?

Second post - first out of the hat? Who's coming to my fun-fly day then? Fun-fly day, 16/11/08 - Lawford, Essex

I will be arranging a fun-fly day for hand launch gliders at a field in Lawford, Essex. For more details see the post on the FlyQuiet forum - www.flyquiet.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1294.0  Anyone with an interest in flat-field thermal soaring is very welcome to come along, whether you have a model to fly or would like to learn more about this fascinating form of R/C model flying. I need to have a rough idea of how many people are likely to attend the day so if you think you would like to come along either respond here, send me a PM or email me - my address is on the post on FlyQuiet. Any questions about DLGs, HLGs, F3K? Post them here, I'll be happy to respond. Tony