Kevin Caton
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Throttle curve characteristics fixed wing IC
Kevin Caton replied to Graham Bowers's topic in In The Air
Hi Graham For a 2 stroke IC such as the OS55 I’d suggest about 25% expo on throttle - with the response increasing at higher stick settings. That is negative expo for Futaba and positive expo for most (if not all) of the other brands. This is the opposite expo to that used for electric motors which have a more linear response than IC engine carburettors. That will give a more linear response in flight. I’m sure that the mentors at the ITA sessions will have already suggested that you should reduce the control throws a lot on your 3D design as this is important for precision flying. I hope you enjoy the learning experience - it never ends but it’s great fun! Kevin -
Hi Richard The answer to your question is two in each of those countries. I think coaching is a bigger problem here - I get most of mine from people in other countries. Kevin
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Good points from both Martins! In the past you needed to be able to build a straight light model, have reliable radio equipment and a good motor. Then, you had to go out and fly a lot. Nowadays, the radio is fantastic, the electric motors are totally relies le and consistent and anyone can buy the same airframe as the top pilots use. People all over the world are able to do this - then have the time and enthusiasm to put in 600-800 practice flights each year. Try counting how many flights you do in a year and you will see just what a commitment this is - flying 4 flights a day 5 days a week through the main season. All this comes before we get to discuss judging standards. Some of us regularly travel to mainland Europe to compete at World Cup events and as such are known by the international judges. Yes, we don’t get scored quite as highly as at home, but when we talk to the other pilots, they have the same experience. As the competition becomes more significant, the judging criteria get slightly tougher. To address a specific point by Martin Dilly, we do get some funding from the BMFA training and excellence fund to go towards the cost of competing abroad. We do have a French F3A judge with multiple World Championships experience who lives in the UK and regularly judges here. Unfortunately at present he is the only non-flying judge in the UK, so that gives us an immediate problem. We can’t seem to get the “young guns” interested in F3A. It’s a bit “catch-22” as we don’t do very well internationally, so it’s seen as a fringe interest and a bit boring to watch. There is more recognition and exposure in show flying - large scale aerobatics, jets etc. Any suggestions? Edited By Kevin Caton on 29/05/2020 07:39:15 Edited By Kevin Caton on 29/05/2020 07:39:50
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This thread could do with a bump to get it going again, so here are some names not yet mentioned from the late 1970s and early 80s. Some have already been mentioned and sadly some are no longer with us. Some of the others are still active but for the rest, where are they now? Dave Smith Dave Milner Steve Burgess (still very active) Ken Binks (still very active with model yatching) Stuart Mellor (still active) Steve Elias (went into jets very successfully) Phil Stevens Frank Dowling Dave Hardaker (still flying I think?) Colin Chapman John Robinson Those sadly no longer with us: Geoff Franklin Brian Brotherton Clive Weller Terry Westrop Graham Briggs Ray Brotherston Sorry if I’ve missed anyone significant. Edited By Kevin Caton on 28/05/2020 21:26:47
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Hi Barrie Albert Model in Brescia (albertmodel.com) has some original OPS and Rossi engines in the basement - a true aeromodellers' goldmine. Unfortunately you need to be proficient in Italian or French but google translate should be good enough. I visited the shop during the F3A World Championship last year and could have bought loads of old stuff - but there's only so much time and money! The shop owner used to fly with the Rossi brothers in the 60s & 70s. A combination of schoolboy French and engine noises was just enough to make myself understood!
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I started in RC aerobatics in 1980, before everyone started calling it F3A, so I may be able to remember some of the characters of that era. At that time it was a big class as there weren’t as many other disciplines around. It’s still very popular worldwide and the F3A World Championship has the largest entry of all the aeromodelling classes. I recognise many of the challenges of international competition mentioned by Martin and Peter. Getting around in Europe is relatively easy as you can drive (even if it is for a couple of days) and take all your normal equipment with you. Taking your planes by air is a whole different challenge, but once you do it a couple of times you get used to the “airport experience”. You need to allow extra time for check in and be prepared to pay a small fortune in excess baggage charges, but even travelling with Li-Pos is manageable. What I imagine is similar across all disciplines is the requirement to be able to turn up at an unfamiliar site, put your planes (or helicopters) together then put in one great flight, then take them all apart again and repeat the experience for four days. It’s the same for everyone of course and it amazes me how the top pilots manage to be so consistently good no matter where you go in the world. I’m looking forward to seeing how this thread develops and hopefully I didn’t get too far off-topic.
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Ever wanted to get into or improve your aerobatics?
Kevin Caton replied to Peter Jenkins's topic in In The Air
Regarding our positions at the World Championship we got about the same scores relative to the leaders as in previous years - it's just that a few more people have squeezed in the gap. Over the last few years the widespread availability of top class aeroplanes (at a price!) and the reliability and consistency of electric power has brought many new fliers into F3A from other countries. Model flying in general is taken much more seriously abroad than in the UK and flying sites are often set up with the F3A box marked out. Junior members are much more prevalent abroad too and many people will have a view on why that is the case. I would like more practice time and have no doubt that this would help. Equally, I don't go for the "gifted" argument. Countries like France, Germany, Austria, Italy and more recently Spain produce a succession of good pilots who progress quickly. Our best hope is to increase participation in F3A which will raise everyone's standards. -
Ever wanted to get into or improve your aerobatics?
Kevin Caton replied to Peter Jenkins's topic in In The Air
Update - I've just found out the Hurley comp is postponed due to poor weather forecast. -
Ever wanted to get into or improve your aerobatics?
Kevin Caton replied to Peter Jenkins's topic in In The Air
Graeme the Hurley flight line is set up so that you will be facing East. With the current weather forecast for Sunday that means that the rain will be hitting straight on your back... We'll all be there waiting for the sun to come out though! Kevin -
Ever wanted to get into or improve your aerobatics?
Kevin Caton replied to Peter Jenkins's topic in In The Air
Martyn The line of flight is 150m in front of the pilot, who stands at the intersection of the centre line and the two 60 degree box end lines. The judges are seated no more than 10m behind the pilot and within the extension of the end box markers. In this picture you can see I'm stood at the intersection and the judges are just off the picture to the left. The flight line is beyond the trees on the right for added turbulence! Kevin -
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Ever wanted to get into or improve your aerobatics?
Kevin Caton replied to Peter Jenkins's topic in In The Air
I had a really enjoyable time at the Newmarket New Pilots' Open Day today. I counted 35 cars and it was great to see lots of enthusiastic new aerobatic pilots flying in quite windy conditions. If anyone felt nervous flying in front of a critical audience then I can assure you it didn't show! From all the flying I saw I would say the one thing to practise is flying a straight line from one end of the box to the other in each direction. Also many pilots could benefit from reducing aileron throw a little (or try some expo - say 20%) as this helps to stop wing rocking. Well done to everyone who took part and a big thanks to Peter and the members of Newmarket MFC who worked so hard to make the day a success. Kevin -
Here are my two surviving Redshift 60s, inherited from my Dad. A great British 2 stroke engine, made in Sheffield and THE motor to have in the late 70s & early 80s.
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I have found the original FAI F3A turnaround schedule from 1983 if anyone fancies a try. Avalanche Half Reverse Cuban Eight Slow Roll Stall Turn Square Loop with Four Half Rolls Immelman Turn Three Outside Loops Half Roll into Half Square Loop Top Hat Stall Turn with Half Roll in Upline and Downline Four Point Roll Top Hat ¼ Rolls Six Sided Loop Half Cuban Eight Square Horizontal Eight Pull, Pull, Pull Humpty Bump Half Roll Up Double Immelman Pull, Push, Push Humpty Bump Half Rolls Up and Down, Exit Inverted Two Rolls in Opposite Directions, From Inverted Half Square Outside Loop Inverted Three Turn Spin
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Almost Steve - the top deck was formed from rolled 1mm ply but the fuselage sides were standard 3/16" sheet with doublers etc. There was a design around in the late 70s called the Racketeer (a Mick Reeves development of the Gangster) that had a full rolled ply fuselage with a balsa bottom crutch.
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One of my Lightnings (I had a few). This one was built in 1981 and the photo was taken on the same day as the picture of Peter Watson's plane above (24/5/1981). Redshift 60 rear exhaust with ED carb and pipe, Sanwa black custom radio and Rhom-Air retracts. The prop was a 11x7.5 Zinger wood. Note the whip aerial - very trendy in those days! By the way that isn't my car in the background. I was a poor student in those days and couldn't afford anything that fancy. Edited By Kevin Caton on 28/01/2014 20:51:25
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My Pacemaker from 1983. Redshift 60 rear exhaust, Sanwa Black Custom radio and Rhom-Air Retracts.
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Ever wanted to get into or improve your aerobatics?
Kevin Caton replied to Peter Jenkins's topic in In The Air
It's just where it sits in the schedule Martyn. Over the years they have sometimes been downwind and sometimes upwind. As you recognise, you fly half of it upwind and half of it downwind whichever direction you start. Kevin -
Peter Watson's (of free flight fame) Arrow, picture taken 24/5/1981 at the GBRCAA Championships at Fulbeck. I can't remember what motor it had (Webra 60 maybe?), nor what radio Peter used.
