[Cyano bottle tops]

Cyano doesn't really stick properly to the bottles it come in so it's usually possible to unclog the spouts but, if not, then keeping a few spare spouts works. I keep my fresh cyano in the fridge. It keeps better and doesn't thicken so quickly.

The 5 Star people are always ready to chat if they're not busy. My wife likes to buy their special cyano and etching fluid for various gluing jobs around the house. That's why she doen't mind me keeping mine in the fridge alongside hers

Geoff

[Soldering again]

Posted by Martin Harris on 17/12/2012 23:22:41:

*The solder is there to hold the joint not provide the contact as it's not a great conductor.

Actually it's quite the reverse. If you really think lead is a poor conductor then ask why, before plastic water pipes became common, the usual way of providing earths for household electrical supplies was to bond to the lead water pipe. The old telephone party lines also needed a good earth and used the same system.

Soft soldering isn't a very good mechanical connection. I was brought up, lived behind and eventually worked in the family radio and TV business in the period during and just after WW2 and one of the first thing my Dad insisted on was to make a good mechanical connection before soldering. I regularly got told off for carrying the solder to the joint on the iron whilst holding a resistor or capacitor in my other hand

I later worked at GEC and in the telephone exchange manufacturing area where reliable joints were essential, all the connections were wrapped round the tag before solder was applied ... and the outline of the wire was expected to show under the solder. THis was in the early 60s and all the irons were simple copper bars heated in a gas flame,which surprised me even then because I'd been using electric irons since I was about 10 years old.

To get a good joint the first rule is cleanliness as many have already said.

The second rule is an iron at the right temperature. It doesn't matter how big the iron is as long as it maintains about 700 deg F regardless. I reguarly use a small Weller temperature regulated iron I've had for over 30 years it's only 45 watts and it's temperature is maintained by a magnetic tip. However for big jobs I use my other Weller which is crude but big (120 watts) with a high thermal capacity and I've had it even longer than the little 'un. I use the big one for 4mm bullet connectors. I've soldered vintage motor cycle tanks with it.

The third rule is to throw away any lead-free solder as far as you can. I've been using cored lead/tin solder for 60 years and really, there's no substitute. It is still possible to buy it. At least it was 3 years ago when I replenished my stock with enough to see me out.

The fourth rule is cleanliness and a properly tinned iron and a properly tinned job.

That's it.

Geoff

[Connecting ESC to Motor]

Posted by PatMc on 13/12/2012 23:59:26:

If I am at home & testing for direction of rotation I always remove (if it's already fitted) the prop. As much to avoid it blowing/sucking any loose light objects or paper etc that's close by as for safety.

Since Christopher is a newby to electric flight it might also be worth mentioning that if he has a Futaba Tx he will probably need to reverse the throttle.

Edited By PatMc on 14/12/2012 00:00:47

Couldn't agree more, Pat. If nothing else, setting up an electric power system is considerably less fraught without a propeller fitted. Once I've done the initial settings I fit aprop, restrain the model on the workshop floor (I use an upturned stool with foam taped to the legs to hold the model) and check the current draw and power consumption. If necessary I change the prop as required.

I know an electric will stop going round (usually) when the propeller meets a substantial block like bone but it will continue to push hard until the smoke comes out of either the motor or the esc. That is different from an ic engine which simply stop applying force

At the field, I always do a range check with the motor on. On Tuesday I was hoping to test fly my remotored Sonata E glider but there was some interaction between motor and other controls so I didn't. I suspect the cheap esc because even the 35Mhz Schulz receiver didn't cure it. I can feel a new FsSky 4 channel receiver coming on.

Geoff

[Power for an Extended Wing Lazy Bee]

My very old 48" ws Lazy Bee started out with a 7 cell NiCad pack, a 600 size motor with a toothed belt drive gearbox. It didn't cope very well with wind and when the teeth wore on the drive pulley drifted away downwind and was lost. Fortunately the farmer found it with an intact wing and damaged fuselage.

Now repaired, it has a brushless set up and I fly it on 3S LiPo 2200 pack. Can't remember what the motor/prop combination is - a cheap motor, certainly The most important tool an electric flyer can own is a means of measuring current draw in operation. Modern Wattmeters are very cheap compared to the Astroflight one I still use and well worth buying.

I'm fairly sure your set up will work and in any case it's worth trying as you already own it. But check the current draw and change the prop size (I don't think the colour matters ) to keep it withing the limits of both the esc and the motor.

You don't need much power for a Bee. They're very light (about 1kg?) so 150 to 200 watts should be adequate.

I haven't had mine out for ages. I'll take it up to the field next time I go.

Geoff

[Self detaching wing bolts]

I have a Maher's Thunderbird with a Zenoah 26 and I replaced the steel M5 wing bolts with nylon simply because nylon bolts don't easily undo like steel is likely to. I was a bit wary at first but after dozens of flights they've proved more than adequate.

I've added some thin ply to avoid crushing the wing but I didn't think it was posible to tighten the steel bolts sufficently. Unfortunately on mine the T nuts are well glued in or I'd replace them wth 6mm.

Geoff

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 20/12/2012 17:18:11

[Do you like to fly?]

I've given up flying commercially completely. The last time was early 2001 (before 911) when we took our road bikes on a package holiday to Benidorm to cycle in the mountains. As just about every flight we've ever done has involved taking bikes and, mostly, camping gear now the days of bikes etc being classed as part of the standard baggage allowance has ended we don't fly.

The extra security checks I've read about, the strict limits on luggage and the general hassle make it just not worth bothering. We have a campervan now and usually take that abroad to the near continent with much less trouble on the ferries ... and I like ships

I feel a bit of a hypocrite because my pension is paid by Rolls-Royce

Geoff

[2013 Mass Build - general chat thread]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 16/12/2012 21:05:48:

Geoff, if you have a problem with the wood pack you should contact MHS in the first instance.

BEB

I've just done that and they were very helpful at MHS. Hopefully the shortage will be rectified on future woodpacks. They offered to send me the triangular stock but really the chances of its arriving in usable lengths are slight and, as the cost and inconvenience to me is negligible, I told them not to bother.

Phil: Yes, I've seen (and printed out) your latest updates. I'm really just studying the drawings and thinking about the build here in the warmth of my workshop/study because I feel to lousy to do much else.

I'll probably fit captive nuts to the new rearward firewall to make motor fitting easier. That may mean making the new F1 removable. Outrunners can be tricky to line up when the only bit you can get hold of rotates relative to the bit with the mounting holes. Front mounting the new motor in my Sonata glider was a nightmare until I hit on the idea of scewing an extra long 3mm bolt into the motor to pull it into place.

Lots of ways of skinning this particular cat. I think the most difficult part of the build to make a decent looking job of may well be the wing fairings but that's a long way down the line.

Geoff

[Are you still flying entirely on 35MHz?]

I love my Multiplex 3030 and I have a number of high quality 35 Mhz DSP receivers so most of my models are 35Mhz. However I've made an add-on 2.4gHz system for my 3030 using a FrSky DiY module and it works really well.

I'm flying electric mor these days and brushless esc generate lots of noise which 35Mhz DSP receivers can cope with OK but 2.4gHz receivers do it even better. I'm very impressed with FrSky and they use a true frequency shifting system which makes them very secure from an RF point of view. So I'm waiting for the new FrSky transmitters to become available before abandoning my faithful Mux 3030 and even then I'll keep it for some models.

I've recently started playing with Eflite Blade helicopters for the winter indoor season so, much against my better judgement, I've bought a Spektrum DX6i solely for my MSRx and 120SR electric helis. I'm quite impressed with it but it isn't as flexible as the Multiplex.

Perhaps the fact that I'm a retired electronic design engineer is something to do with my radio choices

Geoff

[Steve B - Tucano]

I'm a bit nervous of the wing shaping but you've given me a little confidence that it is, at least, possible. Yours look very good.

I'm assuming your wings are not from the CNC pack because I can't see the aileron cut out. Whilst checking my CNC pack I separated the aileron for one wing and now realise I'll have to tack it back in place for the shaping process.

I won't start on my wings until I have the fuselage done because I wnat to measure how big the cantre section needs to be as I;m going for a detachable wing.

Geoff

[2013 Mass Build - general chat thread]

An update on the CNC wood packs.

Mine lacked the 12mm triangular stock needed for the fuselage top. Not much of a problem for me as I have some in stock but I'll get in touch with SLEC (or should it be My Hobby Stores?) on Monday and mention it so that it will be included in later packs.

I've checked the fuselage sides and they are slightly too deep as mentioned earlier. They seem to need 5mm sliced off to match the height of F3 after allowing for the curvature which obviously can't easily be shown on a flat plan. I haven't taken a scalpel to the wood yet so I'd appreciate a confirmation from someone else before I do. I'll also be trimming the wing aperture to be 10mm deep and square as I'm going for the removable wing mod as per Phil Winks.

The engine mount is 6mm plywood instead of 3mm as on the plan. Again not a problem for me as it will need to be removable for me to allow fitting the motor on a rearward firewall as Phil Winks' modification shows.

Otherwise seems to be OK.

Geoff

[Phil Winks' Tucano]

5mm will be more than adequate I think. That's all that's holding the wings on my 84" ws Maher's Thunderbird powered with a Zenoah 26 and they haven't fallen off yet.

Geoff

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 16/12/2012 20:05:23

[Tucano power system chat]

I've opted for an XYH3542 1000kv from Giany Shark. It's slightly heavier that a 3536 but a bit of extra weight up front might be worth it. In any case, it's easier to prop down if it's too much than find you need more power and be unable to get it and contain the smoke at the same time.

I think XYH are actually the manufacturers of a lot of similarly numbered motors ostensibly from different sources. Giant Shark also include a fitting kit in the £12.04 price. I'll be using a Black Mantis 50 amp esc from the same source mainly because I already have a couple of similar 60 amp versions in other models and I have a programming card.

Not sure what LiPo pack to use. I have 2200 Mah amd 2650 mAH 3S packs as well as 4S 3600 mAh. The bigger packs are exactly the same length and width as the smaller but twice as thick ; they're obviously heavier but that might not be a disadvntage for balance.

I intend to use a folding prop of suitable size without an undercarriage. I'm crap at hand launching but I'll make a simple launching dolly to tke off on our tarmac runway and belly land on the grass. The folder will be less likely to get broken on landing.

Geoff

[Phil Winks' Tucano]

Posted by Phil Winks on 16/12/2012 15:42:13:

the cross mount measures 41 mm across the centre those measurements are of the square formed by the hole centres ie: the 2 short sides of a triangle (29 x 29 =841 x 2 =1682 sq root of which = 41 pythagarus )

DUH! Considering geometry was my favourite subject at school (is it still studied?) and the proof of Pythagoras' theorem something I admired that should have occurred to me.

I thought there may be sufficient depth in the wing crank but the problem niggled at me last night when I couldn't sleep because of the lousy cold I have and it seemed worth a mention.

Whilst browsing today I ordered a motor and esc from Giant Shark. The motor is an XYH3542 1000 kv and a Black Mantis 50 amp esc. I already have a couple of Black Mantis esc and the programming card so it semed sensible.

I apologise for doubting you So it's 5mm wing bolts then?

Geoff

[Phil Winks' Tucano]

Another thought occurs to me about the cranked design of the detachable wing. The aileron torque rods need to be straight and the wing is quite thin so care will be needed or the rod will be below the bottom of the wing in the straight section where they are cranked up for the servo link connection. Having looked at your drawings, Phil, I think it will be OK but it needs to be taken into account.

Thanks for your efforts. I was already thinking of a detachable wing because even relatively small one-piece models can be inconvenient to store and the Tucano isn't a tiny model at 45" ws.

I have just (last week) re-motored my Sonata 'E' glider with one of the NTM Prop drive motors (3536 1400kv) and I think they'll be ideal for the Tucano.  I'm thinking along the lines of a 3542 1000kv. I was also intending to add a 'firewall as you suggest. So thanks again.

A couple of queries:

1 Is there any reason you didn't mount the firewall at an angle rather than pack the engine mount to get the right side thrust?

2 You show the motor cross-shaped mount as having 29mm between the mounting holes. I didn't use the cross mount on mine but I bought one 'in case'. Mine measures about 42mm. 29mm is actually less than the diameter of the motor (35mm). Are you sure that's right?

Once again thanks for making your design available to us all. It's much appreciated.

Geoff

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 16/12/2012 13:05:09

[Phil Winks' Tucano]

I like your idea for a detachable wing and I think I'll do something very similar. I intend to use 2 aileron servos, probably 5 gram ones, so that I can try using spoilerons to slow it down for landing. Nigel says in his original article that the model tends to float on a lot. I fly a Riot quite a lot and I'm surprised how very small servos are quite capable of controlling an aerobatic model weighing about 1.5kg.

Have you thought of using Modelfixings' threaded inserts for the wing bolts rather than 'T' nuts? They'd be much easier to hide. Would 4mm be sufficient?

Geoff

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 14/12/2012 17:58:32

[Phil Winks' Tucano]

Posted by Phil Winks on 13/11/2012 21:28:30:

I'm starting this some time before I intend to comitt to balsa as I want to throw my ideas out there for discussion etc.

1stly I've spent a little time this evening going over the plans and have come up with some suggestions for modifications some for ease of construction some to make the model easier to transport and one because as has been disscused in the gen chat thread there is a minor flaw / printing error on the plan that is causing some confusion..

Plan alteration / modification suggestions

1. The fuselage sheet limit marks along the lower edge of the turtle deck are incorrect on the plan and should be one line lower down. basically the triangles filled out blue are the originals and I've redrawn them on the correct line

1. The height of the fuselage sides at F3 taking into account of the curve is 4 ¼” . This is easily addressed by the addition of a ¼” x app 1” triangle of ³/16^” sheet at this point.

Phil

Being lazy, I've ordered, and received a plan pack of both the CNC parts and the extra wood. I've read about the mistake on the drawing and I've compared the fuselage sides with my original May 2003 drwing. The CNC parts match the drawing exactly to the original marks.

So I assume I need to slice 10mm off the top edge of the CNC cut fuselage sides? 10mm is the distance between the two lines on the drawing.

It's interesting that the sides are cut from two 3" wide sheets glued together. Presumably that wouldn't have been necessary had the error not crept in and made the CNC pack a little cheaper.

I wonder if there's any chance that the cutting data will be changed for future orders or are they all now cut?

Geoff

[2013 Mass Build - general chat thread]

Posted by Nigel Hawes on 11/12/2012 06:28:23:

Bicycle spokes work well for the Tucano torque rods as the threaded end comes in handy for the screw-on aileron horn and they are pretty short anyway.

I found the chrome plated ones best as they have much more torsional strength than the dull soft iron ones.

I think my local bicycle shop gave me half a dozen for £1! Every little helps...

I'm surprised at that, Nigel. So-called rustless spokes are the dull soft iron ones (cad-plated) are quite strong and consdered less likely to break in use than chrome spokes. I always build wheels with stainless spokes and I have a load left over from when I was building wheels for my own use. Standard plain 14 gauge spokes are 2mm in diameter but the threads are swaged and aren't normal 2mm. That means you can only use nylon fittings - the metal 2mm clevises won't fit..

I ordered my complete woodpack just a couply of days ago and it arrived this morning. I've checked it and all seems to be in order. Very quick and efficient service. I already have the canopy and pilots from Vortex and both magazines from 2003 so I'm all set to get started. I just hope I won't get distracted as I did back then and actually build the darn thing   

Just a thought - has the drawing in the original article been modified in any way since it was first published back then? 

Geoff

Edited By Geoff Sleath on 13/12/2012 16:06:17

[Tucano power system chat]

I haven't bought the motors for my Tucanao yet but I have done some re-motoring on a couple of my models.

First I replaced the brushed 600 in my old Sonata 'E' (I'd run out of 7 cell NiCads and wanted to use my 2200 3S LiPos).

I've used an NTM Prop drive 3536 1400kv with a folding 9x6 prop which draws 35 amps flatout. I haven't flown it yet but it should be more than adequate That's about 400 watts but a 10x6 could be used for a bit more without letting any smoke out

I've also converted my scratch-built Limbo dancer to elelctric. It's ended on 4S but I did fly it on 3S first and got these results.

motor is XYH3548 790 kv and it drew 32 amps for 350 watts on a 13x6.5 prop. Flew quite well on that and it weighs about the same as the Tucano.

I ended up with 12x5 prop on 4S for 35 amps 550 watts - ballistic!

I think either of these motors, the latter with a higher kv and smaller prop, should work on 3S for the Tucano. I fairly sure they're both XYH - the NTM is just badged differently. In any case I intend to use a folding prop and not have an undercarriage but take-off with a dolly.

Geoff

[Tucano Signing Up Thread]

Just noticed this. I actually not only saved the magazines back in 2003 (is it really that long ago?) but I bought the canopy and pilots from Vortex at a show. I was fully intending to build one and even bought an Axi2820/10 which got used elsewhere until the magnets detached themselves.

So I'm all set - all I need to do is rekindle my enthusiasm and clear the bench.

The minmum weight of the kit was quoted as 48 ozs in the article. With LiPos and brushless it could well be down to 40 ozs.

Geoff

[New Poll - what first got you started in aeromodelling?]

A cycle accident in 1990, when I was 50 and fit as a butcher's cat, stopped my serious riding as well as my dinghy racing which took up most of my spare time. I tried model yacht racing for a while but the nearest club is 30 miles away so, inspired partly by a full-size gliding course and partly because I realised that, unlike water, sky was everywhere I took up aeromodelling.

My minor spinal injury means that precise hand control is slightly impaired so I'll never be either a good builder or a good flier but I get by adequately and usually get 'em up and down safely. I'm practising the 'B' schedule but probably in vain.

So it's a very enjoyable substitute for things I'd rather be doing instead, I'm afraid.

[Are we an ageing hobby?]

1:  70

2: ic and electric sport and scaleish - just getting into petrol power

3: Apart from a very brief flirtation as a child  didn't start this until I retired at 55.  After a  cycle accident stopped me from both dinghy sailing and serious long distance cycling. I'm afraid it's still a second best choice.

[Mode Survey - Discussion Thread]

Apparently, Derby, 50 miles or so north of Birmingham (counted as 'north'), but in the E Midlands is in the south.  I've never been so insulted in my life

 

I fly with Derbyshire RC Flyers on an old WW2 airfield near Ashbourne.  Most people fly mode 1 but a select few (me included) are mode 2 flyers.  Fortunately Ian Redshaw (last year's Nationals Top Gun) is amongst the mode 2 pilots so I do have recourse to a great test pilot but it has forced me to test fly my own models, usually successfully.

 

I learned to fly with an instructor at Goosedale near Nottingham.  My first transmitter was a self built Micron which I just built mode 2 because, in my ignorance, it seemed sensible.  I'm still flying all my models on ch67 because that was the random crystal Micron supplied.

 

I didn't start flying until my mid-50s when a cycle accident stopped me from sailing.  I'm 70 now. (as of yesterday )   I really should have learned mode 1 because the accident means my right hand is less than perfect but it's too late now.

 

Geoff

 

[The Mode Survey - what do you fly?]

Mode 2

Derbyshire

Nottingham

Instructor

[Percival Mew Gull]

An interesting build.  I've always liked the Mew Gull and because of that I bought an unstarted Skyways 1/4 scale Mew Gull part kit on eBay a couple of years ago.  It's still unstarted!

 

The engine specified for the kit is a 0.60 2 stroke!   I've been told they flew well with that engine.  I was thinking of using a 0.90 4 stroke or even a 0.90 stroke but I'd much prefer petrol.  It would seem that your choices of 1.50 Laser and 25cc Roto engines would be more than adequate.  When I first got the kit and was still enthusiastic I looked at fitting one of the cheaper petrol engines and there was no way it would fit sensibly.

 

btw on my petrol engine planes I take 2 pipes out the top of the fuel tank and lead them up and over to the bottom.  They serve as breather and refuelling pipes and are left open in flight.   Joining them with a piece of brass tubing effectively seals them for storage and transport.  No smells either.  The only filtering I use is a felt clunk in the tank and one on my fuel pump.  I use petrol specific tanks (Glen's or Puffin in my case) rather than glow tanks with petrol proof bungs.

 

I'll be interested to see how yours fly.  I guess I'll have to buy the mag to check ot Graham's review.  When is it due?  Or is it confidential?

 

Geoff

[JU87 Stuka]

It looks very nice, Andy.

 

Using Poly C .  I've used it in the past as a substitute for epoxy and used it in combination with lightweight glass cloth.  That works well and avoids the mixing/smell etc that comes with epoxy.  I also haven't had too much trouble with drying times though it IS longer than 20 minutes ... more like an hour, perhaps.

 

Geoff