Chris Berry

Exactly Alan. Giving up wont make anyone in government think twice. I assume these people who are giving up because of the principle also give up owning a car because road tax goes up by £5 a year. nyone who gives up for the sake of 9quid and a quiz or the principle, clearly doesn't think much of their hobby and it doesn't mean much to them such that they can take it or leave it. Ah well Edited By Chris Berry on 20/11/2019 19:46:56

Indeed, the number may not remain the same, even up until June when the EASA regs come in to force. The CAA aren't yet fully geared up for that.

Posted by Supersavage on 19/11/2019 13:26:31: The reason I'm thinking of putting it inside the model is mine is a painted foam model and I can see that if I try to stick something to it it'll just fall off and take the paint with it (I know it's a trainer and it probably won't look great for long but I'd like to keep as nice as I can). Also the battery compartment only has a latch that's really easy to open. This is something I have raised direclty with the CAA, as there are many many models to which a sticker/label will not stick very well at all, be that foam or oily covering, as well as the airflow, weather and general wear and tear. I'm told they are blind to such arguments, but I await a reply from them.

That's an interesting point Nigel. We have only ever done the minimum 5 to affiliate. In the last year we now have 40 members registered through the club who have done so via the online portal and all have our club name on their BMFA membership. Does that mean they are now no longer country members and will need to pay via the club affiliation process?

For those of you who don't have a printer or computer. You have several options. Friends or family, club mate, the club or the BMFA may be able to assist. Or if you can use a computer, your library will be able to help. Edited By Chris Berry on 19/11/2019 11:38:54

Steve, it seems to me that you arent a huge fan of the BMFA. If that is the case why don't you join another association and leave the BMFA to it?

Posted by john stones 1 on 18/11/2019 13:01:50: Stick with the BMFA, don't throw away something that could benefit us in the long run. Exactly!! The BMFA at.al have been trusted to do the job, let's show the CAA they can be! The art of good diplomacy is letting other people have your way.

Posted by Cuban8 on 18/11/2019 11:06:43: We have a few non 'A' members who are not on-line, don't use mobile phones etc so are not registered with the BMFA portal and will have no access to the BMFA test. I seem to remember seeing somewhere that a paper based option via clubs will be available but can't recall exactly where. Any ideas chaps? Only I'm bound to be asked. I've advised our members to contact the BMFA directly for advice on that. We have 92 members , the oldest being 90 and only one (not the oldest) has no email address which isn't too bad. Whether all are signed up to the BMFA portal is another matter of course.

Posted by Steve J on 18/11/2019 10:57:34: Posted by Steve J on 18/11/2019 10:32:13: BMFA online test is now available. I have now done both the CAA and BMFA online tests. "Why have the BMFA developed their own online test?" is now in the top three things that I don't understand about registration and testing. I would advise everybody to do the CAA test. Having done the NATS, CAA and BMFA tests to see what its all about. I think the BMFA one is by far the best option and most suited to aeromodellers and if for no other reason than the CAA is delegating responsibility to the national associations and hopefully this will progress further in coming months.

Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 18/11/2019 10:56:05: Posted by Chris Berry on 18/11/2019 10:47:01: My issue is that when you fly a normal IC aircraft, say a WOT4 or Acrowot or Bullet type sports model that's 10 years old, well flown and oil covered. It has no hatches or canopies etc, then how long will a label last?. Its flown all year, winter and summer, is sprayed with cleaner and wiped down at the end of every session. I can't see it lasting long. Apparently in Germany the number has to be on a stamped metal plate fixed to the model, that would be fuel proof. But in reality you could always just stick the number on this type of model and replace as required, or even stamp /engrave it on the undercarriage. That's a fair point. Engraving/marking on the UC isn't a bad idea.

Posted by ken anderson. on 18/11/2019 09:42:19: not been cheeky to everyone---But a lot of song and dance about putting a set of numbers on a model aircraft---I believe the numbers have to be 4mm high?... probably not much bigger smaller than what i'm typing in front of me ….. fair enough the scale model lads wont be 100% happy- but I think we can all live with the fact....whether they are in the model or outside I don't think will be any big deal long term- as long as the owner can be id'd should the occasion arise which I don't think will be very often - if at all.. so back to more important things(Santa) is on his way...   ken anderson...ne..1..important things dept. Edited By ken anderson. on 18/11/2019 09:42:53 My issue is that when you fly a normal IC aircraft, say a WOT4 or Acrowot or Bullet type sports model that's 10 years old, well flown and oil covered. It has no hatches or canopies etc, then how long will a label last?. Its flown all year, winter and summer, is sprayed with cleaner and wiped down at the end of every session. I can't see it lasting long and will probably change every year or in a few months time. Edited By Chris Berry on 18/11/2019 11:01:20

Posted by Steve J on 18/11/2019 10:32:13: BMFA online test is now available. I've just done the test, although i don't need to and its very straightforward. Easier than A or B questions.

Posted by leccyflyer on 18/11/2019 09:07:24: Posted by Chris Berry on 18/11/2019 08:31:23: No tools of any kind are allowed. Label can be accessed via a hatch or must be on the outside. Do you have a reference for that? If that is the case it would mean having to put some battery hatches retained by magnets on half a dozen models, which would be a pain. No link as yet. Had feedback from the LMA AGM that I couldn't attend. However, is a wing just a glorified hatch covering a cavity in the fuselage and by using finger tightening bolts you're not using a specialist tool? Just a thought?

No tools of any kind are allowed. Label can be accessed via a hatch or must be on the outside.

Indeed Martin. Don't memorise your number, as you'll probably have a new one in 6 months time and/or in 12 months time. I think the rush by the government to implement a scheme only 6 months prior to EASA was a rather critical and costly error. This numbering and labelling situation is going to get messy i fear. And as you say, an old oily model with no hatches is going to need a whole wad of stickers that will need replacing after every flight. Lets hope an exemption is forthcoming that allows association members to put a label on the inside, or an amendment to the requirements to allow a flat blade or cross head screwdriver access.

Is there likely to be the possibility of an exemption issued to association members in the future re. labelling, as I understand the position is now that no tools should be used to gain access to a number, obviously aimed at fly-away drones. Will the BMFA et.al be pushing for an exemption in this regard? An external label on an oily wot4 that is wiped down, gets wet etc is not likely to last very long. Whilst its a relatively minor issue, it is something that many IC modellers will find an issue over the course of a few months flying, as decals often peel and erode.

I called the CAA and when asked about tuition the chap said everyone needs to take the test. Then I had a reply to an email I'd sent a few days previous to the CAA and they confirmed no test needed for those under tuition as PIC is the instructor. Temp agency call handlers reading from a script I suspect.

Posted by robert feltham on 15/11/2019 15:37:14: Reading all of this and looking at all the hoops to jump through now I for one will be selling all my gear and moving to another hobby. I'm just fed up with it all I'm afraid. Flying RC for over 40 years. Hobby ruined by so called drones. What hoops are those then? £9 and if you need to answer a multiple choice quiz.

Posted by cymaz on 15/11/2019 13:55:56: Posted by Gary Manuel on 11/11/2019 14:19:20: That's a good idea Martin. I'm useless with smart phones, but I'll try to do the same. I have a hard copy of the exemption with me which I showed to fellow club mates. They promptly took photos of it with their iphones Club hut is where our copies will be

Meeting was yesterday so the associations will need some time to compile an update. I think the BMFA test/quiz will be different to the CAA and in think it goes live on Monday.

Maybe it's a generational thing? Maybe back in the 60s, aviation in the UK was thriving. Jet age air travel was new, lots of UK aircraft manufacturers, lots of new aircraft and it was an exciting time for aviation.   These days most people use aircraft like buses, airfields have disappeared and people don't notice planes in the sky unless they think it's a spitfire. Even many modellers I speak to arent aviation enthusiasts and don't follow aviation, airshows etc but just like flying model planes.  Edited By Chris Berry on 14/11/2019 11:53:22

Posted by eflightray on 13/11/2019 21:20:18: Perhaps step back and take the position of a non-modeler. Why would I want to take up a hobby I rarely or never see anywhere, not on TV, other than maybe on 'You've been framed' occasionally of crashes. That schools never mention or have inter-school competitions, (Heavy lift ?, what's that ?). That probably many air cadets don't even get involved with. That needs special places to fly as councils class it as a 'health and safety risk', probably the same for schools, 'not covered by our insurance'. That needs a car to get to. That is often controlled by weather conditions. That a club wants to charge me quite a lot of money to join, then tells me there are loads of rules restricting what I want to do, and when. Unless people see models flying, how will they even know it exists as a hobby ?. So where are most clubs ?, out in the countryside down a back road, out of the way. It makes you wonder if the hobby actually wants more people to get involved. Just my opinions and thoughts. Ray. You make very good points Ray. I'm not sure how we increase membership such that we become a well known and socially accepted hobby. I suspect it will never happen. Fishing is a hobby I've never done and have no interest in but I know what it is because it features in many walks of life, particularly on many types of TV programmes. Whenever I tell people I fly model aircraft they look at me blankly as if they have never heard of a model plane and once I show them pictures they realise it's not just chuck gliders in a park, which is the usual assumption. The only way to spread the love is through drip feeding of mass market popular culture over the course of a few years. It's not an easy challenge and even the CAA seem to be struggling, as other than launch day I've heard nothing about DRES. In terms of costs, the biggest for most is field rental which instantly sets a minimum subscription price. If more public land was available through social acceptance, like football is for example, then the cost to join a club would be lower and that comes down to increased participation.

Our club has 92 members, which is the highest its ever been. Ten years ago we were at 72 and its risen every year. We tend to lose between 3 and 6 members each year and this year we've gained 16 new members, a mixture of newbies, and existing modellers. We've had 2 junior members which makes our young under 18's a total of 4. We've got about 8 members under 40, so yes the younger contingent needs increasing, but from our perspective, and with about 7 clubs as 'local competition' I think we are doing very well. Maybe it comes down to club joining processes and club websites.

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 11/11/2019 09:11:17: Posted by Peter Christy on 11/11/2019 08:49:17: Posted by Chris Berry on 11/11/2019 08:13:05: Apologies if this question has already been answered but what is the situation with people who do not have any access to emails or computers? Several of our members do not use computers or have email addresses. As i understand it, in order to register\test everyone needs an email address. Can this be clarified please? Thanks Edited By Chris Berry on 11/11/2019 08:24:54 I believe you can request a written version from the CAA. This was one of the points I made in my written response to the consultation. -- Pete Lack of email addresses is a problem via the CAA system, they are really not geared up to cope with the idea that people may not have an email address as their system requires a unique email address to register. However the BMFA online test will eb available offline and it will also be possible to register via the BMFA for those that don't have an email address. Some further in depth info will be going out to clubs in the next day or so. Advice at the moment is to advice your members to be patient and not rush in to anything. Thanks Andy.

Apologies if this question has already been answered but what is the situation with people who do not have any access to emails or computers? Several of our members do not use computers or have email addresses. As i understand it, in order to register\test everyone needs an email address.   Can this be clarified please?   Thanks Edited By Chris Berry on 11/11/2019 08:24:54