Chris Berry

3 days to go and still no mass media publicity for the Christmas toy brigade to take heed of!

Posted by Andy Symons - BMFA on 02/11/2019 08:26:45: Posted by Chris Berry on 02/11/2019 07:49:07: Just a point of clarification please. What are the deadlines for completion of the quiz for those who don’t hold an achievement certificate? Obviously registration can be done at BMFA renewal. Is it registration then quiz in which case the individual won’t be able to do the quiz until after BMFA renewal/registration?   thanks Currently the exemption from the CAA test which is being amended as it missed off the BPC and the online test exempts holders of A certs etc from the competency test requirements until 30th November. However we have asked that the amended exemption is until 31st December so everything can be tied in with renewals, I don't foresee that being a problem. It will be online test first, which you will be able to take at any time not just when you decide to register with the CAA through the BMFA. You will also be able to renew and then add CAA registration later if you wish. Thanks Andy, so members will have from the 5th Nov to 31st Dec to do the quiz and register/renew. Is there any opportunity to amend the requirements for all members to keep documents on them at all? maybe at sites where there are no uninvolved persons for example. Just a thought. whilst it’s not a big deal, I know many of our members will see it as such! Edited By Chris Berry on 02/11/2019 09:54:19

Personally I think using the BMFA for every element is worthy. Not only is it a one stop shop and have they put a lot of work on and should be recognised accordingly but also it shows the CAA and DFT that members value their associations and that we’ll happily shun the CAA and DFT in favour of our associations.

Just a point of clarification please. What are the deadlines for completion of the quiz for those who don’t hold an achievement certificate? Obviously registration can be done at BMFA renewal. Is it registration then quiz in which case the individual won’t be able to do the quiz until after BMFA renewal/registration? thanks

I see that the CAA issued several exemptions on the 28th of October which require amending. One element was the requirement to carry proof of BMFA et.al membership and a copy of the relevant exemption. This is unlike the 400ft exemption which gives the same privileges to association members but does not ask that the individual carries proof. Will these clauses be removed from the new exemptions?

Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 01/11/2019 13:35:53: Posted by David P Williams on 01/11/2019 12:10:20: There's an ad on the BMFA classifieds where someone's taking a £750 hit selling his new unbuilt jet kit because he doesn't want to pay £9 a year. Madness. Good grief! I just had a look... What a drama queen! I think a lot of people need to take a deep breath, calm down, grow up, get a sense of perspective and pick their teddy bears up. I know. There must be more to it. If you’ve ordered a jet then you are a serious modeller so £9 is nothing and a quiz could be done with eyes shut.

Nigel, there is no benefit to the club. The only difference is that rather than being a country member on your ticket it will list you as a member of that particular club. It makes no difference either way. The benefits to the individual are exactly the same but the workload of the club secretary is a lot higher with all members paying through the club.

Posted by Martin Harris on 31/10/2019 23:15:19: 20 simple multiple choice questions with the answers in front of you and unlimited attempts? If you have any real interest in model flying, is this an insurmountable barrier? Absolutely agree Martin. Anyone who has been flying for more than a few years clearly has a keen interest and has made it part of their life. 9 quid and a little quiz should be easily attainable. Sadly, many people fear officialdom, paperwork and the word test. Many people say “I haven’t done a test for decades” as though it’s a big thing. How people manage to get through life I don’t know. Car tax, mortgage, job interviews, tax returns, passport applications, if people are unfortunate enough probate papers. Surely the whole reason for fighting this little war of ours was to win. I consider the outcome to be a victory with some minor losses. After all the hard work that many people have put in to this, surely people can’t just give up and walk away, it seems silly to give in! Have a go at the NATs quiz, it’s easy. Don’t let Baroness Vere win by you guys giving in!

Posted by Don Fry on 31/10/2019 20:18:11: Chris, our fellow flyer has already said he is not a BMFA member, or at least he describes a private club.You have to accept some people just don't do paperwork. But Steve, I would, urge however, a go at the CAA test. If you can fly you can pass. Then, £9 quid poorer, you are good to go. It’s not really paperwork. Just the same as car insurance, car tax or renewing your passport. Ah well, each to their own.

Posted by stevejet66 on 31/10/2019 19:25:01: Hi everyone, Due to the new legislation with model flying ive decided to call it a day, I neither have a B or A certificate for flying. Although ive flown for many years now in a private club i just cant be bothered anymore, I will let my club members know tomorrow im pulling the plug. I will have a fair bit of gear for sale on ebay at the weekend, Collection only from wolverhampton/willenhall area, Look for stevem-03 on ebay. Planes, Wings, Engines, endless bits n pieces. Thanks for looking.   So you’re giving up because you don’t want to pay £9 more to the BMFA and do an online quiz on the BMFA website? That seems very odd!! It surely can’t just be the legislation that’s caused you to make this decision. Edited By Chris Berry on 31/10/2019 20:05:23

We have a copy of the height exemption in the club caravan and will do the same with future exemptions. As for personal proof, i doubt that will be needed, as in this country there is no legal requirement to carry proof of ID. The police will not be able to request any information without evidenced due cause. The police haven't got the resources to deal with the crime we have, let alone chase old men flying balsa wood in a field. Most drone sightings and reports will be in urban areas, near populated areas, as that's whats interesting to toy drone flyers. As most of us fly in rural areas, I don't see it being an issue and even if plod knock on my door and look in my shed they will see model planes not drones. Like most people they think, quite reasonably, that drones and model planes are different, which in reality they are.

Hi Marc, yep its me. Nothing more to say in terms of having to keep up with stuff. Its as I set out above. The quiz/test is currently good for every 3 years and the £9 is every year. If you do the NATS quiz, its a 10 minute job and that't it. I really wouldn't worry about it. Yep, once the weather improves, we'll meet up. I'll be at Gaydon this Sunday for the Large Model Event.

Don't despair Supersavage all is well. Are you in a club yet? If so, i highly recommend you join one in coming weeks. In terms of what you'll have to do, it very little in reality. Pay £9 to register with the CAA. That can be done at the same time you join the BMFA or you can do it directly with the CAA. On the assumption you haven't got a BMFA achievement certificate you'll have to complete an online multiple choice quiz, either with the CAA or the BMFA. This will be in the form of an infographic type video that tells you the rules and then you answer the questions at the end of each section. It'll be very similar to the quiz at the link below. The final thing you'll need to do is put you registration number, issued to you when you register in or on your model. That is all, nothing more. **LINK**

Posted by cymaz on 25/10/2019 06:42:36: I think I’ve got this correct... all operators/owners of aircraft over 250g must register and pay £9 If you fly and have no A test, £9 fee and pass the free online test every 3 years. Place your operating number on the plane If you fly and have an A,B, LMA SAA proficiency then you just pay the £9 every year. The bmfa will pass on your details to the CAA who will issue you a number. As you have a recognised achievement you are exempt from the online test. Assuming you are a member of said organisations Correct. That’s all there is to it. No more, no less!

It comes down to what is reasonable. Is it reasonable to ask the member for proof if BMFA membership, as most clubs do......Yes Is it reasonable to ask for proof of registration and where appropriate completion of an online test? Therefore compliance with the law and therefore flying lawfully at a club...... Probably/maybe. Is it reasonable to check every model has a number displayed on each visit to the field, after crash and repair etc etc....No. Is it reasonable to require the member to sign each year a renewal form, membership card etc etc agreeing to abide by the club rules and the law governing model aircraft? Therefore the member has signed to say they will abide by the law, be that their own fitness to fly, registration etc etc....Yes.   Edited By Chris Berry on 24/10/2019 23:25:30

A lot of overthinking going on with this, although it’s a discussion forum so fill your boots. Being able to prove you are responsible for a model is highly unlikely to ever happen if you’re flying in a safe, lawful and established location, as most do. Ive read comments on other media along the lines that snatch squads of police are going to be knocking down doors and confiscating models and the mere hint of the word drone will send police response team leaping into action. We have a crime epidemic, knifes are used more than ever before, moped gangs, human trafficking, that’s the real crime that the police are not coping with now. Fear not fellow flyers it gonna be ok! Edited By Chris Berry on 24/10/2019 21:50:37

Posted by john stones 1 on 24/10/2019 20:01:36: Good to see the the BMFA et al getting some positive feedback. I would think that everyone of us agrees this won't stop the clowns, that's irrelevant to me, the rules were gonna change whatever we said/did, terms have gotten better for us, plus they're still talking. Absolutely right John. This shenanigans was first muted about 4 years ago. Back then i thought it would all go away and that would be that. Up until about 6 weeks ago I was quite concerned that the legislation would result in significant changes to the hobby but now, thanks to all those involved across the board the hobby can continue with no impact to the way we operate.

Posted by Paul Marsh on 24/10/2019 18:49:25: I went, didn't have food, but had tea, not very keen on Oatcakes(probably as I wasn't from S-O-T, not brought up on them, anyway, hopefully that should be known by now. Thing is I don't like Cheese, Mushrooms, Bacon, Oatcakes, and don't have bread, oh, dear, I'm a fussy so-and-so aren't I..? so I took my own food, I reckon to people who like oatcakes they gave the thumbs up, but for some reason I can't stand the things. Great day, got a few flights in, but as I said, I felt rusty, not confident at all, though the cross wind didn't help. look forward to the next one. Maybe we could have a oatcake event? 😂💪 They are moorish!

I think given the time of year and with that can come iffy weather, particularly a good breeze or crosswind it may be a bit hit and miss, particularly if travelling a distance to what was the RAFs highest airfield. One suggestion is to move the event to a different time of year. Another option may be make it a general fly-in rather than scale. However with that comes it’s own challenges in ensuring that the event doesn’t become a showcase event and end up losing its relaxed and ‘free fly’ type atmosphere for all modellers.

Posted by Wihtgar on 24/10/2019 16:27:56: I can't see the point of registering through the BMFA, it just seems to be complicating everything and potentially increasing their operating costs if another online test is going to be devised. Nige I think it makes perfect sense. The majority of flyers are members of an national association so why not do it? If the associations are happy to register us on our behalf then great. It’s less work for us to do, especially us membership Secretaries who have quite a lot to do at renewal time.

The mole is trying to climb the mountain!!

In terms of registration numbers I’d suggest the following could have been an option. Those who register through an association use their association number with a prefix BMFA, LMA etc. The CAA then use that number with prefix and anyone who registers independently has a CAA prefix number. That way the same numbers are used and the CAA and DFT can see who is an association member and who is not. That will help in the future with audits of the success of the system.

As I see it the pilot in command I.e the instructor is responsible for the flight and the trainee, particularly if they are having an initial check flight or an experience day such as the scouts does not need to have registered. As a club instructor and generally the one who meets new members and gives check flights I won’t be enforcing any such measures. We often get newcomers who would like to learn to fly but have never flown before. Many come once, have a flight and are never seen again. Equally, many do eventually join. A sure fire way to kill the hobby is to say that no one can fly anything until they have registered and done a test. That will result in no new members, as it immediately commits people to something formal before they’ve made their mind up by having an initial flight. Edited By Chris Berry on 23/10/2019 08:10:13

Not sure a club needs to do anything? members join BMFA for example and pay the £9 extra, job done, that’s the end of it.

This is being way over thought. Unless they are being flown it’s not an issue. The police are not going to be doing spot checks for drones in cars with road blocks. Not worth worrying about.