Robin Colbourne
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Posts posted by Robin Colbourne
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It seems some full size pilots have a degree of contempt for model flyers. I'm not sure why.
Geoff, Some people just are just obnoxious, and unwilling to find a way to which accommodates everyone's needs. I've seen it in model clubs between R/C, control line and free flight, and in hang gliding clubs between hang glider and paraglider fliers. Microlighters used to be treated the same way by spamcan fliers, although these days so many PPLs have trained on microlights that there is a bit more understanding. It sounds as though in the case you state that the Tiger Moth pilot shot himself on the foot.
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Aircraft can legally fly below 500ft above ground level provided they are 500ft away from persons, vessels, vehicles and structures:
So, if you are operating in a field away from houses and major roads, you could easily be in the field that a pilot selects for a practice forced landing. Psychic abilities are not part of PPL training, so unless the pilot has spotted you, your model or your car, he will assume its an empty field.
Your local airstrips can be found here (a couple of years out of date, but its better than nothing):
There are also numerous hotels, golf clubs and private houses that have helipads, even if no helicopters are based there permanently.
Alan Jarvis, like you I have seen some very low Hercules. Driving south along the A3 near Petersfield, Hants, one flew over well below 500ft. Low flying keeps military pilots alive in wartime, so they need to practice at every opportunity. IMHO, you don't NEED a NOTAM for flights up to400ft above ground level, but letting the CAA & military know that you have an established flying site there would be wise (Check an air map first for controlled air space etc. to avoid any red faces!)
NOTAM website here:
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 21/12/2015 17:27:02
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 21/12/2015 17:32:38
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 21/12/2015 17:36:08
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 21/12/2015 17:42:34
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 21/12/2015 17:43:40
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I wonder how many of the reports of low flying full-size aircraft near well-established flying fields are simply because they don't know you are there?
I'm in a gliding club with operates from a military airfield. At the start of each day we get a pack from flight operations which amongst the NOTAMS (notices to airmen) details all sorts of activities in the local area, such as pheasant shoots etc. Contacting any airfields and air strips in, say a 15 mile radius of your club site to say, 'We are here and operate from between 9am & sunset on (days), doesn't guarantee they won't fly over you if you're in uncontrolled airspace, but at least they can mark you on their air maps as a good place to avoid.
Why not contact the airfield manager at a few local airfields and see if they are aware of you?
A lot of full-size fliers are current or ex-model fliers. A friendly approach before there is any conflict can make life better for everyone. If you have a member who is also an experienced full-size pilot and has a congenial personality, they would make a good liaison.
Whilst this will do nothing to stop irresponsible flying of drones etc, it will stop the figures being added to by easily avoidable events.
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Posted by mightypeesh on 19/12/2015 22:09:02:
The tissue finish on the Stuka reminds me of a very bad RTP conversion I did of a rubber powered one in my early years. It was so heavy it sort of dragged it self around with the occasional hop. Happy days!
From my memories of RTP, the hop was when the solid plastic wheels hit the wires from the controller to the pole. Of course if you could put enough volts down the wires, the centrifugal force resulting from the incredible speed would get the model up level with the top of the pole; until the brief but spectacular smoke trail from the motor, anyway!
As you say that Stuka is pretty massive. There are no signs of wires going into the wings, surely not rudder/elevator R/C? No bellcrank visible either, you wouldn't fly that free flight, would you? Would you???
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The website says the SLEC building board is endgrain, which sounds good, except I would have thought it would snap easily unless it glued to some sort of backing board. Has anyone got experience of one?
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A few blasts from the past here, if only the seller could identify them:
From what I can see, they are:
Red & black one with a nose wheel - Keil Kraft New Super 60
Yellow & green - Keil Kraft Super 60
Blue glider fuselage - Mercury Three Footer
Green one with the German crosses - Junkers Ju87 Stuka (Control line?)
Yellow & Black - Keil Kraft Student
Orange and black glider - No idea, any suggestions? -
Congratulations with the new venture, Dylan. Its great to see another British model manufacturer.
Seeing as you're based in Sedburgh, perhaps you should add one, AKA the Slingsby T21 or 'Barge' to your future project list?
Thousands of people must have had their first solo in one and would build it for nostalgia's sake.
There are plenty of attractive colour schemes too, both Air Cadets and civvy.
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 19/12/2015 18:25:50
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 19/12/2015 18:26:24
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Re the piston in the NGH engine, I'm no metallurgist, but could it be that if a cast or forged hypereutectic piston (very high silicon content) is used that machining the top face could release stresses which would allow the piston to distort more than just machining the skirt would? Another possibility (guess), is that the high silicon content in the rough surface makes it less susceptable to erosion?
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There are three shots in this thread which may help.
I've not seen any good shots with all the gear in the fuselage in one shot through. I'm sure if you asked around at a good slope soaring site, someone will have one at home they would let you photogaph and measure.
If you have the battery at the front, then the servos with receiver behind, you get the weight forward minimising the lead required. Also the receiver aerial won't then pass the servos if you are on 35MHz.
With regard to C of G, start at 1/4 of the mean chord (root chord + tip chord)/2 measuring from the leading edge, and as you get used to it, gradually remove nose weight until the C of G gets to about 1/3 mean chord.
This site says 2 5/8" back for the aileron wing:
WIth regard to your question about numbers of unfinished models, the answer must be thousands if not tens of thousands. When I ran my adult education course, a large proportion of models finished and flown had been started years if not decades earlier and had spent time in attics and on top of wardrobes. There were some real classics which finally saw the light of day and flew. The usual reasons for stopping the build, apart from families coming along and work pressures, were lack of knowledge on how to install radio, engine and do the covering. Some were more or less complete but needed a bit of going over to reduce control surface gaps, sort out stiff linkages and uneven control throws.
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Posted by John Privett on 18/12/2015 21:11:01:
Well the revised Wot trainer listing is at least an improvement on the original version. Though it doesn't appear to have any wings... There's still the same comprehensive description, "good" (which I still maintain is one word short).
The revised price is slightly less unbelievable though still optimistic for a dusty fuselage, corroded engine and elderly 35MHz radio.
I think the seller is more at home selling furniture. Perhaps he should stick to that.
OK he might not sell it at that price, but if a house clearance person comes across a model, surely its better that he offers it to potentially interested parties than it becoming landfill just because he doesn't know exactly what it is? If his first guess at pricing is wrong, then he will probably drop the price until it sells.
Someone out there who has just 'lawndarted' their Wot Trainer and is left with a good wing, may be ready to bite his hand off if he accepts a sensible offer.
I still can't believe he gave up on the drone so easily though!
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If you type in the name of a limited company in Google, you eventually come to companycheck.co.uk which gives the cash,net worth, assets and liabilities for any limited company. Two of the well known wholesalers each have net worths over £5M. Granted that includes cars, boats and whatever else they do.
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The real benefit to the economy is how model flying has inspired youngsters over the last 120 years to take an interest in science and engineering. Model flying imparts knowledge of materials,processes, aerodynamics meteorology, in fact the list is endless. Model flyers have gone into high tech industries of all sorts which have earned the country money both in income tax and overseas sales.
The hardware may be made in China these days, but the hobby is the catalyst for generations to use their brains..
Here's Sydney Camm (think Hurricane, Hunter and Harrier) holding an A-frame pusher:
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Posted by Steve J on 18/12/2015 18:33:08:
A clubmate was advised by the police not to put his name and address on his models.
A mobile phone number is all that you need to put on a model in order to allow somebody who finds it after it has gone AWOL to get it back to you.
I'm always a bit wary of some of the things the Police are quoted as saying. In many cases its just that particular Policeman's opinion. I would like to know the thinking behind the comment. I can see if someone looks at your model at a flying field, they could phone a mate to say. 'This guy's at the flying field, go and burgle his house as he won't be home for a while.' However a 'pay as you go' mobile number is hardly a positive means of identifying someone, plus, given the mobile reception we have at home, I would never get any lost models back!
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 18/12/2015 19:13:21
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Whilst there is obvious concern of 'big brother is watching you', as others have said, putting your BMFA number on your model was pretty standard practice and anyone who has flown free flight will know that typing your name and address on a piece of tissue and doping it on the model was normal too.
I don't see why anyone who launches a model, drone or whatever should not be held accountable for their actions. If it goes through someone's greenhouse, why should the greenhouse owner have to foot the bill? If you want the right to fly a model, you need to be responsible for it when it goes wrong too. That's why we have insurance. A lot of house insurances used to have a clause covering the policyholder flying model aircraft. I did query this with mine as it appeared to cover anything radio controlled regardless of size. They assured me any size was covered. I did wonder where I could get a QF-4 (Phantom) target drone
. The insurance company later phoned back to say models weren't covered, despite it being there in writing in the policy!Obviously there needs to be some common sense, hence the lower weight limit, although I did hear that, the BMFA insurance made a fairly significant payout some years ago when someone was hit in the eye with a free flight chuck glider.
I would have thought that any one of the following should be acceptable ID on drone or model:
- BMFA Number
- Name, house number and postcode
- Driving licence number
- Passport number
You could reasonably argue that the same applies to golf balls and cricket balls. That should put the cat amongst the pigeons!
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"It gets even better. The same seller has listed a multi rotor for sale. He crashed it so is selling it on!
"As you can see it was new but I took it out in the wind and well the rest is history"
This seller is a legend. **LINK**
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Would you give up that easily? I detect an aroma vaguely rodentish about this listing.
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Hi Percy, You're right. A quick search revealed this:
A bit from an owner here:
A lot is at stake if that 'O' ring drive belt breaks or comes off the waterpump pulley. I guess the impression of an airborne Flying Scotsman might alert the pilot though.
Thanks Jon for the analysis of the ZDZ engine. All valid points. I never knew of the V1710 powered B17 (XB-38) either, it turns out it was turbo=supercharged (a la P-38 Lightning, presumably) so not the same cause of problems as the V1710 in the P-51A Mustang with a single stage supercharger.
I wonder if RCV ever thought of water cooling their SP inline piston engines? It would make an interesting Spitfire or Hawker Fury biplane.
Anyway, back to the Laser Engines 'Skunkworks'...
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Hi Dave,
Googling images for 'Albatros D3 plans' brings up quite a few.
To save people the time of suggesting the plans you have already seen and rejected, why not list the ones you have looked at, with the reasons that they are not suitable for you?
If you say the sort of size, method of propulsion and preferred construction they would all help. Are you happy to scale up or down, change from IC to electric for instance, or will you build exactly to the drawing?
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"This is exactly how not! To do it!
Every aspect of this listing made me chuckle **LINK**
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Sadly he's edited it now so we can't play "Where's Wally the Wot Trainer?" anymore.
I do have some sympathy for the seller, as Ebay do have a habit of sending out offers to list 100 items with a significantly reduced final selling fee, but with an impossibly short deadline, which always coincides with a time when I'm busy with other stuff. What I, and I'm sure others, do in these circumstances, is to just 'mark my place', with a really basic listing, usually modified from one for something similar, which I then go back and edit as necessary when I have more time. Its ok if its an auction, but not good practice with a 'buy it now' in case someone buys based on the misleading description.
Of course, in the ideal world, I would have photos taken and the descriptions written out for the 100 items in advance, so when the offer comes up next I would just cut and paste it all in. Having said that, in this mythical ideal world, I would also know the winning six lottery numbers in advance, so wouldn't have to bother selling stuff!
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 18/12/2015 13:05:24
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 18/12/2015 13:13:11
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HI Jon,
Thank you for the speedy and detailed reply. Its interesting what you say about the WWII findings. I guess that's why many of the later aircraft (B29s, Sea Furies etc.) went to radials. Also a bullet through a coolant pipe would soon cook the whole engine, whereas there were tales of carrier aircraft returning with whole cylinders shot away yet the engine was still running.
I came across this report which details a ZDZ two stroke converted to watercooling and its interesting how more power was available after doing so. Maybe this was due to better control of cylinder roundness?
It also appears that brushless electric motor users are also watercooling:
At least some of the bits are already out there should you find any time to experiment!
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Jon, Having just come across this thread, I read through it and saw you mentioned issues with overheating preventing various configurations of engine and engine features. Given that Lasers are so popular in scale models, have you considered doing a liquid cooled Laser with, say a Perry (vibration driven) pump to circulate the coolant to a remote radiator?
With telemetry being all the rage these days, the pilot could open up a restrictor valve if the engine started getting to hot, or you could have a fully automated closed loop control system in the model.
As petrols run hotter, it might be an help there if you're going that way, and those inline twins become more viable as well.
There was a twin engined scale control line model with liquid cooling back in the 60s or 70s, but I can't find a description of it at the moment.
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Engine thrust line is important on powered gliders, otherwise as Daren Graham says, you get large trim changes between full power and idle/glide. If the engine is up on a pylon, you need up thrust, whilst on a nose mounted engine you need downthrust as the engine is well below the polyhedral wing.
In the Rookie Major video, you can see how there is no significant upthrust on the pylon mounted engine, which explains the quite alarming dive immediately after launch. fortunately the pilot catches this in time with a fistful of up elevator.
If you can pick up a copy of the old Radio Modeller book 'Radio Control Soaring' by Dave Hughes there is a lot of info on powered gliders and trimming them.
With regard to the engine choice, you can always choose a slightly heavier grade of balsa for the tail surfaces which will balance out the slightly heavier engine if you go with the .15.
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 18/12/2015 02:24:05
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I go with IanN, contrasting dayglow colours top and bottom are good. A dayglow orange strip wrapped around the leading edge from root to tip helps too when the model is coming towards you on approach. Plummet's suggestion of dark underneath (against the sky) and light on top (against ground and trees) are good too.
Whilst a dark colour may be good against the sky, its not so good against the background of trees on the approach on that last flight of the day (the one when you realize you should have landed earlier or not taken off at all...).
The RAF sponsored some research into increasing visibility to try and stop Air Cadet aircraft banging into each other (its reprinted here on a German glider manufacturer's website):
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These ads rely on the watcher 'joining the dots' to get the subliminal message. i.e., Bold washing powder is good for removing blood from children's clothes...
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Hi Ian
I ran an adult education course for a couple of years in which I taught 45 people to build and fly. In addition I used to give one to one lessons using a buddy box, so I got to fly a great many HiBoys as well as just about every other trainer that was around at the time.
If you really want to build a model, you could look on the likes of Gumtree, Ebay and Preloved to see what unstarted kits are on offer. You might pick something up for a song.
As others have said, the Hiboy was heavy, so a less than perfect landing would break the saddles holding the noseleg which would result in it getting torn out, and usually a broken prop too. If you could get the softer Micromold saddle clamps they stood up better than the SLEC ones supplied in the kit.
The Mk1 HiBoy (identified by the longer tank cover and steeper windcreen) had its main gear too far back, so would need incredible distances to get airborne as built.
I found some people could cope with a four channel model straight away, whereas others, generally the 50 year olds upward, were better off with a three channel model with rudder/elevator/thottle.
A few models of the period that really stood out for the period were:
MFA Yamamoto 3 Channel - Superb model for older fliers, rubber banded on main gear, steerable noseleg, all sheet balsa fuselage and tail surfaces and a strong foam veneered wing. Don't fly in a strong wind though as the flat bottom wing doesn't penetrate that well.
DB Tyro One pupil built one of these and flew it from take off to landing (albeit in flat calm conditions) on only his second go with an R/C model. He was a retired British Airways Concorde engineer, o it was a beautifully prepared model, but even so.. .
DB Mascot - Nice model, but the one I flew had a vicious flick inot a spin if you stalled it. It might may have been just that one though.
Precedent Flyboy - Incredibly difficult on the ground, Once in the air it was ok, but needed more fin area.
Cambria Instructor - Nice tough model available as for a 20 or a 40, mine chugged around on an OS20 four stroke.
Thunder Tiger Trainer - Flew nicely The Mk 2 had some interesting features to help it go together quickly.
Irvine Tutor/Boomerang/Arising Star All these type models are good trainers but can be a bit delicate if you cartwheel them. Expect to split the covering, and get some splits in the ribs. They are ok if you don't mind a model with a few patches on it or are happy to buy new wings and tails as spares.
There is a lot to be said for starting with a two channel glider which you can practice gliding into some long grass from a hand launch. Once you get the hang of the flare and landing, it won't be a big deal when you move on to landing your power model.
There is also as others have said, a lot to be gained by starting with a tough electric powered foam model, which you can learn to fly on without worrying about cantankerous engines and covering damage on every flight.
One thing I would say, the bigger the model, the slower it appears in the air, and that is a big help when learning, so your brain can keep up with what it is doing.
Good luck!
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 17/12/2015 13:38:55
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 17/12/2015 13:59:01
Tiger Moth traditional kit
in Building from Traditional Kits and Plans
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Kits-wise keep a look out for an unbuilt Pilot Kits Tiger Moth, 47" wingspan. I test flew one with an OS20 two stroke in it, for the builder, and once trimmed it was a nice flier. You would need to set up a search on auction sites for one though and expect to find a few others bidding as they are nice kits.
This is what you are looking for: **LINK**
Plan preview here: http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=3522
Plans include Gordon Whitehead's which you can preview here: **LINK**
The plan for the Phil Smith's Veron 50" Tiger Moth are or were available from his son Colin at: [email protected]
There are several more on Outerzone mostly around 44" span
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 21/12/2015 21:07:35
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 21/12/2015 21:08:25
Edited By Robin Colbourne on 21/12/2015 21:20:08