Isoaritfirst

I have flown for an hour with an Easy glider after the bec had cut the prop out.   Unless you are flying something big with lots of very powerful servos - you won't have any problems.   not something to worry about just fly it until the power drops off then glide for as long as you want/can. @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

When ever I have put curves into the elevator response to the crow, I have some time later taken them out and found it better.   Curves can be to conditions dependent, just put a nice linear compensation in and try adjusting the amount of up aileron, and learn just how to apply the brakes. I usually add them in slowly untill full brake then having killed some speed back it off to the right amount to allow the model to fly to roughly where i want it to be.   I do try to land it where I intend to but do not mind if I end up safely down some distance back from the planned spot. Especially if the conditions are rough or I am carrying a lot of ballast.   Don't try to stretch the glide unless you are very sure that the conditions are good for it.   Trying to stretch a glide path out may mean you end up nose high with no speed and heading into trouble. If the model is good to land then land it and walk.   Hit the spot you aim for by good planning early in the approach not by dragging it out. @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

Hi ALex, On a 60" I would probably settle on around 40% diff. But it is very dependent on what you want from your flying. I like my models to pull slightly around the bank if that makes any sense. Describing it another way - in a f3f style turn the tail lifts slightly pointing the nose through the turn.   Remember that the up going aileron will create less drag than an equally moving down going aileron. So when banking for a turn with no diff the higher wing creates more drag and gets pulled back creating a nose high fuz line. Dial in more diff than the required amount to even out all the drags and the lower wing will create more drag and the nose will pull down into the turn, and the tail will sit high. I like a small amount of this to push the fus line down through the turn. But when doing straight rolls across the slope it may show as a slight barrel in the roll. It also means that all this reduction of aileron travel will soften your responses, But most model will perform just as well with less movement than many people set in.   V tail rudders, I have found that most of mine work nicer for being restricted in their throws. adding in lots of rudder when you only have small elevator throws can start to get ugly, as the rudder inputs will also apply some degree of elevator input.         @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

Hi Alex, 1) Transmitter differential is just a predefined mix made by the manufacturer to make programming your transmitter a little easier. If you have curves in your transmitter than that is an alternative place to make a diff, just by re shaping the curve. End points may make the throws reach their end point when the stick is at half way position so may not be a good choice. Should be easy to see if this is happening with your transmitter. 2) If you understand the logic then diff is probably not of a lot of use on a smaller model, But you may like its effect, so really its a suck it and see. Watch closely and you will see how it effect the line of the fuz when ailerons are applied.     Conditions are the biggest variable in turning nice. A small amount of cross wind will change the turn dramatically. @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

Hi Tim, yep not a complete newbie but very occasional visitor. down as Mike evans 2 - but I would rather it stayed as isoaritfirst, which is known within the community, and keeps things within the community.   @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

Hi MArtin, Thanks for your welcome and yes the flight was from the Mynd and was followed by the maiden of the model.   It was a very special day, I didn't stop smiling for a week or more..   @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

Sorry if I haven't visited this forum enough over the last few years.   Hope you will have me now following my disagreement with the other side.   For those of you that don't know me here is a link to my Picasa site which should give you a pretty good idea, of what interests me and also many useful build threads etc for various models and other bits.   https://picasaweb.google.com/isoared         @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

@import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css); That Pike Brio of Mr Eds is a cracking buy.  A Pike WR is nicer in my opinion but the brio is a good model.   But my fav list of older models to keep an eye open for.   No 1. Tragi 702 or 704 (basically the same) Big easy to fly as tough as they come, fantastic fit & finish will go on for years and having flown mine again ove rthe last few weekends - still a top performance, also good up a winch should you ever fancy it.   No 2. gets much harder to choose. but for a first purchase probably Ellipse 2V or 2T. Look dated but stunningly well built, so bad landings will never faze it. Still capable of winning comps, very easy predictable model with NO bad habits. I recently sold my lads which was as New for £450. They are still around.   Then   Sting is a stunning model to fly but does have a few problems with the build quality. The wing tips are very weak and will fold at the first sign of a poor landing. Easy repair, but a nuisance, No tow hook, so limited if you ever have chance to winch. Wing servo install is tricky to do well, so I suspect that there are a few dodgy ones out there. Pike WR, good tough competitive model, no drawbacks, but never enjoyed mine as much as my Sting. Acacia 2, if you can get a good one cheap, fly lovely look a bit dated, and there are a lot around that are made of cheese. Get a hard one. Wizard Compact, tough, fast and agile. Lots of peoples favourite, but I sold mine because it was smaller than my other stuff, and size matters. @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);       Edited By Mike Evans 2 on 06/02/2011 21:23:43

Hi Alex, Like you I agree it makes no difference how people get into any sport, I wasn't having a go at those who choose to do things differently to the route I took, just trying to highlight what I see happening to many of them and also what they may be missing.   They may decide that they have to miss those things because life has other attractions and time is limited - that's fine, but if they are missing them because they having considered the advantages then hopefully my post may help.   It is very easy to walk into a shop and buy RTF, and think well its cheap enough why bother with the build.   Or even to look at others high quality building work and think I can't do that and I can buy it so why bother, But none of the guys who can build started with a god given gift its the same as any skill you start with easy stuff and progress. The same as when you start flying, you don't expect to be instantly competing at the top level of flying 6mtr scale jobs.   If you have a few mates that are also building that helps a lot to pass ideas around or even to spur on the competitive edge that will make your builds better . I joined the Wolves MC which was full of very experience wood builders, we had a club comp where everyone built a sonata - It came at just the right time for me I had started to get better with my building and took extra care with this one to and had lots of great builders doing the same around me. I learnt a lot from these guys. @import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

So in my case on one hand I could recommend that newbies follow the wildthing, EG, phase, typhoon route thereby ensuring that they don't double up on models with similar atributesand keep their spend in check, unlike what I did with the multitude of phase type models - but on the other hand while those models offered little performance differences the builds and the experiences they gave me have proved invaluable.   My first mouldie experiences were first from a Brisk II, then a Tragi 702.   Both were/are absolutely top quality models, and I was a little restrained with them for a few years, but because their build quality is so good I slowly gained confidence when they didn't fall apart at the first sign of a poor landing.   The Tragi is still in my fleet some 10years on and has more flying hours under its belt than many would have in their total fleet. and it still is the dogs Bx of a model.   I didn't have the choices then of going for Lunas or Typhoons etc as a stepping stone or a useful price bridge, as to flying - don't be scared of going 3mtrs - it is the right size for slope gliders, they are easier not harder to fly and they land easier as well and if you can buy the right model it will last you for many years. Sometimes looking for the cheaper alternative will cost you more in the long run.     @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

I started with a 27mhz set ripped out of a RC car and installed into a thundertiger windstar.   All done while I was on holiday.   It was before the days of foam and I was a prolific builder of phase 6 type models. I think I had them all. It cost me a load of money, all in small lumps - but lots of small lumps.   I learnt a lot from all the building and rebuilding, and learnt that crashing and smashing isn't the end of a model just a rebirth.   It is the one thing about check-book modelling that would concern me. Alex's route may suit his time restraints - but for many it seems to me to be the route that ends up with short term modellers. A few crashes in fast succession will lead to another attack on the check book and possibly a totting up, which could end up with a value for money review, as models get binned after a few hours airtime.   The guy who built the model first time around is much more likely to consider the crash as a setback, and after a rebuild he may take extra pride in the fact that he has been able to reconstruct it. In my case I have spent a lot of money on models but IIRCC I have only ever binned a DS Falcon and a ridge runt - and the ridge runt had had many new handles and many new heads before I finally decided to jump on it. The Falcon was a total DS wipe out.and a loss of around £500. easily justifiable in costs of my sport.             @import url(http://www.modelflying.co.uk/CuteEditor_Files/Style/SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/CuteEditor_Files/public_forums.css);

No Attitude here Andy - I would advise some fliers towards the Luna. Personally the Typhoon offers more of what I want from a small mouldie. It handles like a 2.5 -3mtr model once it gets on step. Particullarly if you set it up for that style of flying, so its a nice useful model that I an happy to practice F3f runs with, light ds with or just fool around with.   First mouldie for a newbie -- of the two the Luna would be the better sit. Mouldie for someone who wants to try F3f on a budget - Typhoon.   first mouldie for someone with a competitive nature - Typhoon. First mouldie for someone who want to have nice relaxing weekends with their pals a Luna, that not to say its not capable of exciting - just that if that what you want then the Typhoon will do it better, and if you want relaxing then the Luna will do that better.    

If you are looking for  a go-to model when you just want to lay back and chill out, or your first aileron + model then the Luna will ideal. It's benign handling and lifty wing will inspire confidence. If all else fails then let go of the box - pretty sure it will sort itself out. (Andy can confirm) . It will be happy to be set up to fly slow.   If you are slightly further down the road and can handle a model with neutral stability, (best way to fly a Typhoon)  where things can start to happen pretty quick if you get it a bit wrong - then the Typhoon will be able to offer you a lot more performance.

I don't find tip stalling an issue with my Typhoon, and have flown it many times in less than 3mph wind speeds.   There are very few people that are prepared to throw mouldies off in low wind speeds, so don't get too concerned about the differences.   The Luna will give a more relaxed feel on the sticks - which you will either enjoy or be bored by.    Choose the one you like - neither have any bad habits.     

Nice buy Tom, I seen it fly very well even in extremely light lift, I'm sure you will be pleased with it.

I would recommend that you reduce the amount of crow you have available. 90degree will often unsettle a model.   If you are still getting used to crow having this much is highly likely to end up badly.    hes a few pointers.   Be positive keep it flying forward don't go a long way back and try to stretch the glide in to your feet. Stay closer to the slope edge dive down steeper with lots of brake, then start to round out at around 20ft and feather brakes into a landing.   Nose in is much better than tail in.    Set the elevator compensation so that at full crow the model dives slightly, then on landing feather the elevator slightly to slow the model 

I don't use the noise issue as a reason when discussing with fliers on the Mynd - as it will fail to stand up very well.   For me its more about the nature of our hills. Its open access land with numerous carparks etc (Mynd and the Orme) so why would an electric flier choose to walk to the face to stand in a freezing cold N wind, when he can happily fly from the boot of his car. Even if they stand on the slope their usable airspace can be different.. Slopes are generally not organised enough to cope with this style of flying.    Also TomS point about the two don't mix is a good one, if you have ever tried flying a scale glider in scratching conditions, its a butt clencher anyway - to then be trying to do it in airspace that has hotliners  whizzing in every conceivable direction is very hard.   Other gliders are forced to follow the lift areas or slope contours and their movements are easy to predict, fast electrics in these situations are more akin to being attacked by a swarm of flies. They simply don't mix.

No problem at all Timbo I fully understand your comments and welcome the opportunity to discuss.    By the way try searching the net for MPX Merlin, innocuous little elopor glider,  well may be.   Blizzards -- how long before someone straps a jet ontop of one,   The fact that these are mainstream models sold as gliders is exactly the reason why now more than ever we need to maintain clear guidelines. Edited By Mike Evans 2 on 16/03/2010 08:06:26

There are plenty of locations around the country where electric will fly happily, there are limited good slopes. Visit your local model shop and ask for their advice for a glider, I would bet money they will advise you to buy an electric version.  Then how long after a few assisted easy gliders fly off the Orme  will it be before the arms race ensues.  Next comes the guy who comes to the slope but brings his funjet for a quick session around the carpark before he leaves, next step his friends turn up with their fun jets with no gliders.  The Orme would be a cracking location for a power field. This may sound harsh but believe me I have the experience and  for me a innocent looking drift around with anything with a prop on is bad news. There is nothing in its favour, and policing it amongst mates -- has no future either. Your actions will influence others, just imagine the lad who sees you when he's on holiday then pops down his local and comes back all kitted up with his shiny new electric glider - to be told he can't fly it, by some old guy who he saw flying electric earlier.  Think about it long and hard and I'm sure you will eventually come to the same conclusions. Edited By Mike Evans 2 on 15/03/2010 23:33:50

I don't know the origins of the ruling, but the lmsa committee find that the rule works for us. so have not made any attempt to contest it. Personally as Chairman I will insist that electric models must have their propellers removed if they are to fly on the Mynd.  I believe that the sight of, or the photograph of, a power model on the slope will make enforcing any no power rule significantly harder. There is no half way house which is enforceable. I have had numerous occasions where I have had to have words with modellers flying fast electric jets around the car parks on the Mynd. I go there to fly my models not to have confrontations but sometimes a friendly word just doesn't seem to work. What do you do when you have consistent offenders, who delight in showing off just how fast and powerful their latest electric creation is to impressionable onlookers. Antics like this are not 1 guy having a quick half hour when no one's looking, they are the building blocks of anarchy. Often the worst culprits are knowledgeable /experienced pilots who think that they are perfectly safe and that the rules don't apply to THEM.  Safe they may be, 2.4 they may be, but they are breaking the landowners rules and endangering the continued use of the hills, for what good  reason? Edited By Mike Evans 2 on 15/03/2010 23:32:17

I regularly have to defend the LMSA and NT stance on no electric on the Long Mynd.   It would be very hard to police a policy that said electric was ok provide that it was used purely as an assist, or if it was under a certain noise level -- or speed (Most of my gliders are faster than most electric models) etc etc.   Fortunately I don't have to its banned simple.    Consider if electric becomes allowed, where it will lead - no requirement to congregate on the windward side of the hill, fly anywhere. straight from the carpark, etc.   The only way to keep the site organised would be to convert it to a power field with all their regulations etc.   So for you own protection - your own enjoyment -- don't open those floodgates.   Mike 

I have commented and flown both -- although not a lot of stick time on the Luna.   both are great models -- personally the typhoon suits me better,  It has a greater speed range. Edited By Mike Evans 2 on 12/03/2010 21:16:29

As Andy says it really is about understanding the air. If you wish to only fly along the slope edge on light days then 10mph for the Bedlam is probably about right, as you wont be making best use of the available lift. This will become more biased towards thermal lift as the wind speed drops, so the slope has little effect other than perhaps focusing the thermals into sweet spots.   You need to start to learn where these sweet spots are, and also as important as recognising thermals you need to recognise sink.   Don't follow the heard and land everytime you see a sniff of sink - its often caused by a thermal suck. If you have ever had a open fire at home then you will have experienced the cold suck through a door thats left ajar.   Flying on days like this is great fun, well worth the effort.    Mike 

Yep Typhoon will fly on nothing -- My maiden was on a day when the only other model flying was a 3mtr built up algebra (I think) so serious light thermal machine.   The Typhoon out flew it. - but it does require more confidence to fly this type of model on still days.   Recently was flying in what measured 2mph wind speed - when it was measurable, and that was mostly blowing across the slope. At Ashes Hollow on the Mynd - similar if smaller than HOH.   Flew my Tragi 702 also in the same air and this flew slightly easier - but requires even more confidence to be sufficiently relaxed with a bigger model.     So as to what's a suitable model - think it depends more on you than the model, many model will fly in very light air - I recall flying most of my mouldies of the HOH on comp days in wind speeds that were below competition legal limits, with few problems.    Fly the Typhoon, Try it in the summer when the bracken is high - Provided you don't panic when it gets down in the valley bottom you will struggle to break it.. Or practice with the Bedlam now - they will also fly in less than 5mph, and if it goes down - well that's good practice as well.   

Flesh on bones Andy.   I was just trying to put some    Sorry Darran - but you have no need to read it, I was only trying to help. but if you want inane dribble I'm sure you will find some if you keep looking.