Grasshopper

I have just had a final weigh-in and seem to be on the right side for a change! Ready to fly with no LiPO mine weighs 631g (22.2 oz) and with a 3S 1800, 787g (27.2 oz). The hang angle is spot on with the LiPO about a 1 cm off the rear bulkhead. So - nothing holding me back now from some visits to the field at the end of the week. Fingers crossed for a light breeze and just for a change - please, no rain. Peter

Thanks Tom, I really appreciate that - must be great to have a test site so close by! I only have the servo rods to finish this evening and then to stick on the sides/nose cheeks which I have combined by not cutting square side plates but growing them to provide a little artistic feature up front. Not my forte is art I am afraid! Weather here is poor with constant rain showers and strong winds but Saturdaty looks better so fingers crossed. I have made a series of tests with the FF - blade spinning in a breeze and it generates loads of lift. I will repeat these with the HK blades before I take the plunge. Watch this space - thanks again, Peter

Tom, thanks for echoing my sentiments - and at the risk of labouring my point! I have 'borrowed' the complete head from my FF for the CF and the blades are mounted on a 120mm plate (about 4.5" and the blade holes are 50mm from the centre and that is quite a way from your 40 / 45mm. This is why I was asking if I should drill another set of holes say 40mm from the centre. I am just concerned that the two sets of holes may weaken the plate enough to make it fail. Peter

Rich, not at all - the Fire Fy is just too nice to smash again in a beginners accident. When I get a couple of flights with the Crane Fly under my belt I will swap the head over and have another go and after the feedback you have all given me from my short YouTube video I am sure it will be fine. What do you think about the blade hole placement - that is I have swapped the FF head to the Crane Fly so can I just bolt on the HK blades or should I be drilling some new mount holes perhaps in a little? Peter

Thanks Tom, interesting. If we can talk about blade mount hole position in terms of distance from the centre that takes out the difference in plate sizes between the two AG's. Also it is this distance which I assume is important. You have tried hole positions 45 and 35mm from the centre (20mm and 30mm in) - but in fact the FF plate has the holes 55mm from the centre. It is tempting to drill another set of holes in between your test settings at 40mm from the centre or do you think for my initial flights I am being too picky? (just one of my faults!) Your other notes and hints will be invaluable as I have no one to advise me here on the ground as this is the first AG any of my French flying friends has ever seen. Peter

Tom, having snapped the mast of my Fire Fly - on the first flight, I have repaired it but put it to one side and made a Crane Fly as if I have further accidents (if !!) then repairs will be easier during the learning process. I have a set of HK blades and (wanting to conserve the Fire Fy set) I will use these on the Crane Fly and also the 'borrowed' FF head. Question is can I use the head plate 'as is' or do I need to move the blade mount holes in. The Fire Fly holes are 55mm from the plate centre and you recommend 20mm from the apex of your CF plate which gives 45mm from the plate centre. Yes I could drill further holes but don't want to weaken the plate. Peter

I have been flying lots of missions on the Cierva in Phoenix sim. - and yes I know it will not be the same as Fire Fly but this is an auutogyro so there will be at least some similarities I assume? Interestingly I find it much more controllabe with no expo at all and also with very small control movement settings. I can now fly repeated circuits and generaly stunt about without crashing and can land - with and without power. In fact dead sticks from height were not too difficult once I had an idea of the minimum forward speed the thing needed to stay in the air. Anyone else giving this a try will noticve that the standard power/weight ratio is skinny and upping the ratio improves the handling above borderline. So - ready for the next FF II flight with no expo but with other throws as noted above. Peter

Simon, thanks, I will leave my left/right at 10° as that seems to suit several folk. This is on 60% rates so if I am stuck I can switch to 17° - if I have the time before the accident that is! I have clockwise rotating rotors so have trim 2° right. I will leave in 20% expo for now. My other throws are similar to yours. Peter

Thanks David, I have applied some maths and I think your bank of 8mm is about 8 degrees which is less than the 10 degrees i had. (60% rates on 17 degrees). This assumes you measured on the edge of the plate which is about 110 mm wide at its widest. The other dfference is that I had 60% expo so when things started to go wrong, the effect of my initial small stick movements was minimal so in my haste I probaby just banged in the full whack with predictable results. The new mast is fitted and this evening I will refit the head and set it all up again. It will be interesting to know what throws you end up with when you have made a few more flights. Peter

Thanks chaps for the analysis and advice - particularly Simon, Tom and Rich. You have given me the hard facts but in a way which makes me just want to get out there and have another go! Tom, yes you are correct, over controlled plus WOT all the time - always a recipie for disaster. I had intended a nice hand launch into a 10/15 kph breeze but in the end was 'persuaded' to do it in this totally silly fashion. When will I learn? Simon, yes too much expo. I have always had this failing of thinking if I have big throws then I can soften them with big expo but as I know I am at heart a stick-banger it does not make sense. I have learned my lesson this time. I will take note of the throws used by David and yourself and apply same - with zero expo. Well thanks again for all the help and here's to the next time. Peter

Rich, thanks for the detailed analysis which is extremely useful. Yes, it rolled to the right on take off and then I remember correcting left, probably savagely and then as it headed for the dozen of us I probaby froze. As you may have read the 'take off' was a farce as I was presuaded by a dozen French men who had never seen an autogiro before - to give it a good wellie when I would rather have waited for a breezy day and taken off into wind with good blade speed. My plan originally was to have a launcher - someone who has helped many times in the past and ex-hiloco person - to get the blades up to speed in a breeze and then when he could feel their pull, I would fire up the motor and hopefully it would 'float away' rather like Davids did. Barring that then if there was a breeze down the axis of the strip I planned to use the length of the strip to get the blades up to speed and perhaps do some hops to get the feel for the trim. In the end neither of these happened and the take off run was only a few metres long with the result that I left the ground - just, and then quickly lost control probably for the reasons you suggest. New mast made and fitted so I will be ready for another go this weekend. I plan to go to a discused airfield nearby (ex WW2, ME109s flew out of it!) where I can do some taxiing and perhaps some hops - and then who knows I may fly. This way I am away from the ever persuasive crowd who go to my local club. Incidently, you mentioned Mode 1: in fact I fly mode 2 but the rest of the members (all French) fly mode 1 and think I am very odd. Report to follow. Peter Edited By Grasshopper on 20/11/2012 15:51:51 Edited By Grasshopper on 20/11/2012 15:52:36

Here's hoping! Out of interest, what were your throw angles, left and right for your maiden? Peter

I just received a short video of my Sundays disaster flight - and apart from the stupid launch it seems that if I had been better at the sticks then she would have flown. In fact this short bit of video has told me a lot. After the ludicrous 'takeoff' into a breeze of only a few kph and the drift to the right I clearly could have flown away as pre-take off you can hear the rotor - but I banged on left and held it on as the FF did its spiral of death. Probably excessive throws and as Simon has said too much expo. http://youtu.be/jUXRAzUeA3M   New mast now made and installed and I will be ready to try some hand launches at the end of the week.   Thanks for all the condolances and hints by the way all very comforting and useful. Peter Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 25/11/2012 12:45:44

Just finished some industrial dentistry, removing the broken stub after yesterdays broken mast disaster. Sadly in spite of my best efforts I have ended up with a greatly oversized hole. How best to glue the new mast - tons of epoxy seems the only hole-filler up to the job? Peter

Thanks chaps, recovered now a little after a couple of G&T's and a good meal. Looking back this was a farce. There was the gentlest of breezes across the strip and I was persuaded to take off into it and just welly it across and pull back. It did fly but it was all too sudden: forward motion, the blades suddenly whirring, and pulling to one side, correction too much, then the other way, full throttle - get the picture. It was an accident waiting to happen and it did! As to throws, I had right/left 17 degrees or so with 60% rates so about 10 degrees each way and also 60% expo. I don't have the lighest of hands on the sticks but I thought that with this expo it would be OK. Should I go for less throws next time? I will drill out the broken mast stub and take it from there. I will not be beaten as always but will go to the local 'old airport' on a nice breezy day for some hand launch tests before I go back to the home strip. Peter Edited By Grasshopper on 18/11/2012 18:15:29 Edited By Grasshopper on 18/11/2012 18:15:51

Yes, David do take care with your ROG tests - see below! I arrived at the field tday to find the forecast 15 mph wind was - zero. Sadly I let the dozen folk who were there persuade me to do some ROG tests. After a couple of attempts I made it for a brief and damaging flight. The left and right bank controls seemed to be hyper sensitive and I ended up in a heap back on the strip. No blades broken but prop snapped and some easily repairable tailplane damage. I was upset and annoyed at havng been led into this by a bunch of folk some of who had never even heard of an autogiro! Later the wind did pick up and we did some autorotation tests which went very well. If only I had waited for that breeze. On returning home the really nasty damage emerged when I found that the mast was cracked right at the base. I will drill out the stub and try to line up another mast no doubt with a good spot of epoxy. Peter

Excellent David, just what I neded to see after a dismal afternoon trying to fly the Phoenix sim. Cierva. As you say, the behaviour of the sim. of the Cierva appears to bear little releation to the actual FFII. Now that is a relief! Congrats. again, Peter

Cranked up my Phoenix sim. this morning with the Cierva and after about 20 crashes managed to get off and start a circuit but on a knife edge! Then lost orientation and that was it. I really do hope that the real thing is easier or I will need a bin liner sooner rather than later. I suspect that some of the transmitter setup in the sim. is not optimal: any hints from someone who has tried and succedded? Peter

Ah - an Auto-G! I nearly ordered one of those before the FFII came along so I'll be interested in how you find it flies.

I'm ready to go now and have broken my habit by taking a couple of pre-maiden pics. Not as pretty as Davids - but with my cr*p eyesight I need all the orientation blocks I can get! This should be a difficult one to lose in the bushes I think. And another - pity the sun got in the way. The pilot I have robbed from my Tiger Moth (thanks Foamy Dave) which still flies now and then when there is no wind. Tomorrow is forecast wet and windy but Sunday better so I will try some taxiing and hops at the strip. Peter Edited By Grasshopper on 16/11/2012 14:01:49 Edited By Grasshopper on 16/11/2012 14:01:58

Simon, I referred to your post of 24/10/12 and kept the mast vertical on both axis at all times. Thus the angles I measured were relative to horizontal. I think I have this right? Peter   Edited By Grasshopper on 14/11/2012 18:37:44

David, me to! I set up the head angles today and apart from some decals to 'water-slide' onto their backing and apply, I am done. My head angles by the way are as follows. Sticks central, 6° of rearward tilt and 3° of right tilt as my blades will be turning clockwise after reversing the ends! Backward tilt 19° max and forward 7° max. Left and right tilts 17°. Hopefully these are correct? I am sure someone will shout if not. Pics. by the end of the week of the finished article which is against my principle of never taking photos before the maiden but I can't resist this one. Saturday here is forecast very windy at 22 kph and worse to come so I may have to wait a while before I have a go. Peter

Hang angle - I just tested mine for the first time (glued the tail boom in place as a 'last job' - last night!) Ouch - it came out at 22 degrees with a 3S 1800 LiPO so I tried a 3S 1000 and it 'improved' to 20 degrees. If I remove the LiPO it is still about 20 degrees. For 14-16 degrees 50+ g of lead is needed in the tail giving an RTF weight of 865g which is rather heavy. The only way forward seems to be to live with 22 degrees and perhaps do some test hops to see if the rearwards tilt is adequate. Peter