[LANDER F-16 Has anyone got one,some feedback please]

Hi,

 

I've not flown the F16 yet but its on its way !, if its like the other lander models I've flown , the Panther and the Rafale see here for the rafale

 

and

 

here  for the panther

 

I used 9g servos (BRC) for all surfaces and metal gear high torque micros (giantcod) for the retracts.

 

What power system are you putting in her ?

 

 

[Graupner Taxi 2400 Electric Glider Tug]

 

Looking into the multitude of lithium polymer batteries available and determining from the wing loading that weight wasnt important I opted for 2Nr 6S 10,000 maH lipos from Maxamps in the USA, these were competitively priced with a good reputation, they arrived faster than some UK mail order items, upon close inspection they reminded me of my oily days and the 12v battery used for the power panel, with the exception that these were 22V and 100A continuous !

The cowl in the Taxi 2400 is massive and 70 mm of boxing was required to get the correct bit of the motor to poke out !, Ive seen many electric conversions use aluminium spacers to mount electric motors away from the bulkhead but Ive always opted for widely available plywood with 4mm threaded rod bolted through. As with all large AXI motors mo motor mount is supplied so one was knocked up using 1/16 epoxy board from Macgregor industries.

 

Building was completed in a sedate week of evenings, all the parts were exceptionally well cut and apart from the hardware no surprises were found

 

Unfortunately the terrible weather delayed the maiden for a couple of weeks but a break in the clouds one Saturday evening gave me the opportunity I was looking for, the model was put together in a few minutes and after a few static photos a range check was carried out, the range check didnt go well, the right flap and aileron appeared erratic, everyone present was baffled by this, several theories were offered but all to no avail, eventually one of the younger member, Connor asked if it was because the metal spinner was on the ground causing interference, when the model was place with the tail on the ground it passed the range check thank goodness.

 

 

The motor was armed and taxied out to the runway after a fail safe check was carried out power was applied and the model moved forward, after a few feet it took off with authority, a couple of clicks of left aileron saw the model flying straight and things settled for an innocuous first flight, the landing was uneventful, flaps were not required as the wind was quite strong.

 

 

 

Since completing the model I have had several flights and comfortably get 25 minutes from the batteries, the flaps make landing on the tightest strip easy. Weve done plenty of towing over the last 2 years and found the Taxi able to tow 12-16lb gliders effortlessly.

 

[Graupner Taxi 2400 Electric Glider Tug]

The elevators come in two sections (left and right) and each are controlled by standard servo, connection to the main body is via a aluminium tube kept in place by a robust plastic clamp.

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The rudder and a tail wheel are connected through separate closed loops, the tail wheel is joined to the closed loop via 2 springs to prevent stressing of the servo, as I chose this model as a glider tug I opted for a mighty Hitec 645mg as rudder is (from bitter experience) your best friend during take off.

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The tow release was a simple piano wire loop mounted on a spruce block behind the wing, it was a bit fiddly to install as I did not want to cut the covering, always remember to use a high torque servo for the tow release !

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>The choice of motor was made on the basis that I wanted lots of power and lots of durations, in electric flight terms this isn’t always easy to achieve, I knew from the distant days of school that amps watts and volts were all related in some fashion so decided to opt for a 12S HV setup so I could reduce the amps and increase duration.

Determined not to be beaten by the myriad of numbers associated with brushless motors I started ‘googling’ and stumbled across a great formula from Bob Boucher that assists with determining the correct prop size for desired power or amp draw, anyone interested can e-mail me for the spreadsheet I developed. After several days cogitating different setup I opted for an AXI 5345/16 and a Jeti spin 99 all purchased from the ever reliable John Emms at Puffin Models.

[Graupner Taxi 2400 Electric Glider Tug]

 

A cryptic text message from my wife asking what was in the box as big as her signified the arrival of the graupner taxi, in short the box was massive ! The service from Motors and Rotors was excellent, packaging was first rate and delivery was as promised. Opening the box showed that this was a true ARF, all surfaces were pre hinged (and pinned) the only setup was required for the stab, the hardware was extensive, possibly too extensive as we will come onto.

 

The first job after checking all the components were present was to decipher the instructions, unfortunately this lets the kit down a bit. The instructions and photos are primarily in German, English is presented later in the manual but without pictures so you have to cross refer, especially where dimensions are present, in the end I pulled the instruction book apart and put the German / English pages side by side, perhaps Graupner will look at this for the future.

 

Construction was pretty simple the only things worth pointing out is the hardware packages, the control horns supplied were very large and setting up for the pivot to be on the hinge line was impossible, it wasn’t until I was fixing the close loop to the ruder that I found another set of horns that were more suitable, unfortunately I had soldered the pushrod before discovering this. The 3 point control horns supplied come with 3/4” screws so quite a lot of trimming is required, I found that making a template to fit over the horn is needed (I used a margarine tub) as covering does stand up to a freshly ‘dremeled’ end.

[RC Lander Rafale Twin EDF]

David, Thanks for that, I'm short on fine weather photos so will wait for the next fine day and snap away.

 

 

[RC Lander Rafale Twin EDF]

I reckon a F9F and Rafale side by side review would be good publishing material although douby my pictures would be good enough ?

[RC Lander Rafale Twin EDF]

David,

 

Thanks for that, I did send it to you a couple of weeks ago along with a review of the F9F Panther but didn't receive a reply, from your response I can only presume you never recevied it.

 

Perhaps I'll send it recorded again if your interested ?

 

 

[RC Lander Rafale Twin EDF]

Thanks Timbo, this is an abridged version of a wrtie up I submitted to the model magazines as I was desperate to get my name in a mag

 

I was dissapointed to find out that its a closed shop and that only widely available models from the big distributors are acceptable, I personally think that this is a dangerous tactic to take as more and more companies are finding distributors difficult to get and their terms and margins squeezing the manufacturer to the point when quality sufferes and quality suffers........

 

Perhaps David has a view on this .........

 

 

[RC Lander Rafale Twin EDF]

Receiver and battery installation is straighforward, there isn't a lot of room but the 2 number 2500mAh 4S packs and AR7000 receiver fitted snugly, I opted to use 4mm bullets to connect the batteries as it fits with my other models but on reflection deans would make more sense. Control surfaces movement was setup in accordance with the instruactions and the C of G moved forward 5mm for safety on the maiden. I was hesitant in using the canards (they are mixed with the elevons) but opted to utilise them for the test flight.

   
And so the long wait began almost two months went by without a decent flying day, although the forecast promised the powers that be refused to play ball and the model remained 'grounded' in the hangar. Although the forecast for February 22nd was for wind (20mph gusting) it was going to be fine so the refale was placed in the back of the car and off I went to RAF Dishforth for the BMFA Northern Area Fly-in. The event was well attended with some 25+ keen modelers turning out, the wind however soon got up to the 20+ mph forecasted and most did not bother to get their planes out of the car. I was determined, well I say me but I had our senior test pilot Steve with me to help with the maiden and he (funilly enough) didn't seem fased by the wind. And so she was carried to the runway for some static shots (note the attention to scale amking her look identical to the real one). Unfortauntely the wind was strong and she caught a gust and flipped over, although the plane is foam she survived the ground roll well only knowkcing off the rudder tip which was quickly cyano'd back on. After a range check we decided to dial in 5mm of reflex to asssit with tracking and she was pointed into wind, full throttle was applied and everyone turned round as the turbine like roar was aurally astounding. She wanted to leap into the air immedialtey (not surprising as she has a 1:1 thrust ratio! )but the intrepid test pilot kept her on the deck for about 50 yards to gain a good speed, once in the air she flew straight a dart despite the wind, the ailerons were a bit too keen and now benefit from 70% rates but she flew great. The retracts were retracted but alas one of the mains wouldn't play (they have now been replaced with metal gear high torque servos which do the job. After 2 minute sof cruising she was grought in for a landing which was again uneventful and all doubt that the retracts would hold up dispelled

Even though the wind continued to howl we recharged the lipos and flew again as she is quite a performer. I'm looking forward to testing her out on the club grass strips later in the year to see how the retracts hold up but so far so good....... another winner for RC Lander who I am told have just launched a F16-D & I and are devleoping a Hawker Hunter and MIG 15 for the Spring, its going to be a jet fest summer !!! ...... The kits are stocked by Scott at  BRC Hobbies (www.brchobbies.com)

 

[RC Lander Rafale Twin EDF]

 

Once the EDF units were mounted the 2 60A ESC's were connected and the system tested to ensure rotation was in the right direction, I know it sound obvious but I've been there and its not pretty..... Servo extensions were installed for the ailerons and the main funselage was test joined. I found the rudder linkage was not aligned with the servo so ploughed another furrow to ensure smooth operation and 12 minute expoy was smeared, the fuselage joined perfectly as there are plenty of guides in the moulding. 

 

  
The aileron servos were installed (again 9g micro) and test fitted to check alignement. I was a bit dubious of my hope to pull mach 2 with butt jointed wings but after researching the interweb found it to be commonplace in small span EDF's. Nonetheless I skewered the foam with a large screwdriver to ensure the 30 minute epoxy has a good key. The wing fitted snugly into the fuselarge guides and this ensured consistent dihedral across the span. 

 

  
Building (well assembly) was almost complete, the canards were guled to the preformed plates, again these were a good fit and did not insist on you holding them until the glue dried, The tip armourments were glued with hot melt glue and I modified the position to provide a little wash in (always a benefit !). Fitting of the rudder and nose cone was easy and I was impressed with the tight fit of the rudder which again helped to ensure it was perpendicular to the wings. 

 

 
The cockpit can complete with foam pilot or stormtrooper as people have cristened him. Again the manufacturer has taken on board the comments and provides a more 'realistic' pilot for the rafale.

[RC Lander Rafale Twin EDF]

acting on it and my Panther suffered from collapse. Retro fitting the metal plate was easy, just cut out the original wood and epoxy the plate in. The instructions weren't too clear on how to install the steering servo but hopefully my pictures will help you. Although Lander's include a 9g servo for the retract mechanism I opted for a cheap 2.6kg metal gear servo to overcome any stiffness, I read on all the forums about how people have spent days 'working the linkage to operate with optimum smoothness' but I opted for brute force ! 

The mains were more straighforward to install and I opted to use standard 9g servos as the seemed (see below) to operate quite successufully. Remember though to bend the push rod assembly down to ensure they don't lock when moving. Also note that one of the servos needs to be reversed, this can be done by utlising on of the readily avaialble reversing y leads or as I prefer by swapping the leads to the motor and servo pot (although this method is only suited to those servos where the motor is not fixed to the board).

 

  
Power for the rafale is provided by 2 3900KV Lander metal fans. Each 72mm fan unit weighs 108g including motor which is conatined in the tube, being metal the whole unit acts as a heatsink so overheating is not an issue. Each fan develops 1.2kg of thrust and pull 47A from the 4S 2500 packs. The rudder is controlled by a long metal snake that runs from the front steering servo, when the metal fans were 'test' fitted they snagged on the snake so I furrowed out some of the foam to ensure smooth travel. The EDF units are secured with double sided tape although I did drip some hot melt glue down the jsut to be sure......

[RC Lander Rafale Twin EDF]

RC Lander (www.rclander.com) followed up thier immensely popular F9F Panther with a Twin EDF version of the Dassault Rafale (English: Squall). The full saize is a French twin-engined delta-wing highly agile multi-role fighter aircraft, it was produced both for land-based use with the French Air Force and for carrier-based naval operations with the French Navy. Although the full size was marketed for foreign sale no orders were ever received, luckily the model has not suffered the same fate and no wonder, its a beaut.

 

 

  
Packaging was very good, double boxed with all foam parts double wrapped. The foam is marketed as SEPO by the manufacturer, it is still EPS but very dense and gives a smooth finish. Happy to report that it is not prone to the 'hangar rash' woohoo ! The accessories are good and the metal 'lander' fan exceptional, the resonance from the metal honestly gives a turbine sound and because its balanced in the factory super smooth .....

 

 

 

 
One of the first things that strikes you after checking the parts is the modularisation, the rafale is built in sections with the servos, linkages and retracts assembled on a single module prior to any joining, this allows for thorough checking and less stressful assembly.

   
If you read my review of the Panther you may recall that I had a few problems with the front retract that ultimately led me to retro fit pneumatics, the manufacturer Tim Wan has always played a active part on the forums and has developed the retracts, my rafale utilised a metal mounting plate for the front wheel, as the front wheel is smaller and used for steering there are more forces actin

[Anyone been out this weekend.]

Took the wife and kids to Filey (E Yorks) yesterday, we arrived early and while they were playing in the park I flew the Alula over the Brig, the wind was 2-3mph but quite warm which suited her fine, safe to say my Alula is always charged and always in the boot !

[RC Lander Rafale]

I love the panther 50+ flights to date and she's still going strong.

 

The setup in my rafale is the twin lander metal fan's 3900KV with 2 60A ESC's 2 2500 25C lipos and a hobbywing UBEC.

 

I began the conversion of my jets to 2.4Ghz just before christmas as interference was always on the cards and this one flies great on the spektrum 7 channell thing.

 

With some mods to the underside hand lauch would be possible as she has a 1:1 thrust ratio, the C of G is on the retracts so no issues about launching her.

 

The retracts I am using will not stand up to grass but the new ones developed by Tim Wan at RC Lander will, I'll hopefully test them out soon.

[RC Lander Rafale]

This version of the retracts isn't for grass but the manufacturer has made some metal mechanical retracts that are good for short grass, hopefully I'll try them out soon as they retro fit with no problem....

 

I cannot stress how turbineish(?) the noise is I thought Scott was surffering from tinnitis when he first mentioned it but no it is way better, some of the die hard 'IC till I die' brigade were impressed !  Still grinning several hours later .....

[RC Lander Rafale]

I noticed Scott from BRC is stocking the rafale now, after having one ready to go since December I finally managed to maiden her today at the BMFA Northern Area fly-in at Dishforth, all I can say is WOW,
WOW what a sound

WOW it flies on Rails

WOW the retracts don't collapse

WOW

 

 

 

[VTOL]

You're spending too much time on here Scott, that's like a David Ashby response  !

[VTOL]

I reckon we need to poineer this Scott, how about teaming up, can you pop one in the post to me ......

[VTOL]

Way to go Scott is it a true VTOL project or are you planning to mod an existing plane, if its the latter then is their large amounts of space in the airframe, from what I delved into a few years ago using a few cheap gyros and a couple of GWS EDF 55's the best way to achieve the transition was two stage, one EDF created the bed and the other ducted into the wing rotated for forward motion, the bit I failed spectacluarly on was when the wing ducts rotated the plance (for plane read 2 balsa sheets) flipped over and crashed, I gave up and went ARF, still poke my nose in on the long running saga on rc-groups from time to time but they aren't having much luck either, it can be done ..............

[VTOL]

Eric Dainty in the mid 90's managed the 'elusive' transition, if anyone is from the Ottawa Area of canada they may well know him ...

 

 

[Anyone Going to the Nuremberg toy Fair]

Cheers David, I've got some reviews of their kits if you interested ?

 

Photos better this time ......

[Anyone Going to the Nuremberg toy Fair]

If anyones going to the Fair please take the time to stop in on my friend Tim Wan from RC Lander, he's in Hall 7 /D-51-14.

Tim's a new breed of manufacturer who actually listens and improves his products based on the feedback he receives.

His metal EDF's and Models (especially the F9F panther) are quite exceptional.

[Wey hey - it's not half decent ;-(]

Our youngest Member Connor Stephenson (15) entered his first competion the F3P-C indoor Nationals ! (he's only been flying 1 year) and won 2nd, must get some thumb screws to even things up !!!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a4JCABcby-w

Congratulations to the young lad ...

[RCM&E EDF model design]

I have only ever built 2 models form plan and to be honest found it very difficult probably because I'm youg (ish) and impatient.

In terms of EDF I think the intorduction of wood etc generally adds weight to the plane which in EDF terms is not your friend and invariably leads to bungee or other launch mecanism that can spell carnage if its not build straight, I'd hat to waste 100's hours for 2 seconds ?

[Weh hey ...it's actually looking half decent]

David Ashby wrote (see)

James, that Meteor looks very interesting

I bought it thinking I would convert it to EDF with a couple of the 55m turbo fans Scott sells but it looks too much faff so decided to fly it on the stock brushed 480's must admit it had plently of upmty for something weighting in at 3lb still the C of G was too far back (2") so it was a bit of a handful, I'm trying to convince one of my friends in china to kit the Meteor but think he is swaying towards the vulcan, either way it will be nice to see someting diffrerent to a flippin L39 or a F/18 !