Give IT A Whirl LET DOWN ?

[Flanker .]

Sadly for the first time I feel let down by my favourite mag! I have been really looking forward to the "give it a whirl" column each month as it seemed to be aimed squarely at me, ie those who are fixed wing investors who are never going to spend 600 quid plus on a helicopter due to the high chance of wrecking it/steep learning curve etc, but who had bought a picco z for a cheap laugh, found it fun, bought a cheap Lama, Blade etc and found it even more fun, and were wondering about possible AFFORDABLE next steps. And sure enough that was what we got, more about affordable Helli's, a gentle introduction to swash plates etc.

So there I am waiting for the Jan issue so that I could find out more about the obvious next steps ie the Belt Cp, Twister, Humming bird, CP machines that are STILL in the financial reach of us fixed wingers, we had been told that Collective is what we need for a bit of out door fun, and that the next issue would introduce a nice 160 quid cp machine. So imagine my shock at finding that to continue WITH the column I would need to spend nearly a GRAND! WHAT? When there are sub 200 pound machines waiting for us dilitantes out there. OK Britain is windy but park flyers are being sold/reviewed all the time so it is clearly possible to fly light machines outdoors.

I feel left out in the cold guys. Come on, can you tell us MORE about the little Twister and it's buddies, how to set them up, flying tips, tweaks, etc ,what other small CP machines are out there, are they any good? Please don't leave us out and plunge straight back into "Proper" Helicopters.

The shops say the Belt CP is a good beginners model. Is it? Come on we are dealing with a NEW MARKET here. We have had "To L with helicopters" Lets not repeat it. I MIGHT invest 600 squid AFTER getting to grips with a 200 pound machine, but I'm sure not going to jump from my €140 Lama v4 to a 900 Pound  Century Hawk.

 I think that you have just alienated the people that you were aiming at! Sort it out Ed boy, I'm cross! F    (Copy posted in Jan Feedback)

[GeeW]

Flanker

I absolutely agree. As a lifer in the fixed wing world I too have gone the PicooZ and Lama V3 route and enjoyed it all (except for the bit when the Lama managed to knock three Swarovski crystal thinies of my wifes off the tely...wifey not bestest pleased!!!)

Having looked at an alternative source for aspiring/perspiring Heli newb info just after I read RCME column I took their advice and bought a Esky Honeybee FP (£82 delivered). This is the RIGHT route as the progression jump is managable for a fixed winger. Now I have got that wee beastie sorta under control most of the time I am now thinking about a CP heli. I taught myself to hover in my living room with a 8foot by 10 foot space.

Try RADDS school of heli flight ideas http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html

I have felt that Graham, to use a fixed wing analogy is saying you can only learn on a 40 sized trainer....try that line amonst the parkflyers among us and see what sort of a mauling you get........

[Flanker .]

Thanks GeeW, I feel strongly about this.

[Brian Daniels]

I have not read the mag this month but as a small heli flyer i can give one bit of advise...small electric CP's are twitchy and much harder to learn with than the bigger nitros (not imposible but hard all the same) however the RTF market has loads to offer but none that are an easy next step for a novice without help. The most popular small electric is the trex 450 but again your looking at 250-300 pounds, again not a cheap option 

The other factor is space, a lama, blade cx2 or any conta heli is alot more stable and flyable in a small space lounge etc however when you step up to the collective helis your lounge is no place to fly. you need an indoor club or outside space.

Well thats my 2p however i do agree the more reviews the better informed everyone will be as to where the hard earned readies are going to be spent, i know when i was starting out the lack of info made it hard, and lets face it reviews on the picoz dont cut the mustard, so cumon RCME get some heli reviews.

[Flanker .]

Thanks Brian. I have a field that is good for small models. I can do nose in circles with my lama, and I found a borrowed Honey be nice, so we'll see. Go well. F

[Owen Hailey]

Hi lads.

This is the common problem I here all the time and there is a big gap in the market for a heli of a size some where be tween a twister and cp as the price is not the problem it is the learning curve I can fly my Robins 22 in doors ok but not in eny king of draft or breez and it is a no no, but my Walkera 60 is not that costly to by or fly but is much harder to fly in eny kind of conditions so a 4 ch Heli of the same size as the twister would proberly sell very well as cp is a big step.

you do not need to spend more than £70 to get started try www.esky-helicopters.com

[jeffrey cottrell]

Hi

I can only echo the sentiments of Flanker and others. I have read RCME for many years, and was pleased, at last, to see a heli column in a mainstream mag.  Imagine my disappointment when it went straight from contra-rotating to the Century Swift.

It has missed entirely the most popular segment of the market, mini and micro electrics. Need I mention Trex, Ark, Zoom, Shogun, Walkera, E-Sky, the list is endless.

A quick look at the adverts shows how popular these classes are, and the number on E-Bay sold on as damaged, abandoned, or simply unloved shows there is a need for help and advice on them.

I always thought the magazine should respond to the needs of its readers, rather than telling them what their needs should be.

Quick thought to GeeW. If you are looking for a CP follow up to the E-Sky FP, have a close look at the E-Sky Cool. I have one, and it is a little jewell. It WILL fly in a breeze, my local heli expert has taken mine up when I was thinking twice about my fixed wing.

Needs a brushless to get the best out of it, I got mine off e-bay for £6. Hardly a deal breaker. Best thing is, with King2 and belt CP taking the limelight, Cool prices are silly.

A run around the shops should net you a barebones for less than £50. kitting it out should cost another

£40 or so. Full fledged heli for less than £90. Cant argue with that.

Chjeers

Jeff

[GeeW]

Jeff

Thanks for the heads up on the Cool, I was looking seriously at the King 2 (also needs a B/less upgrade).

I must admit I think that Esky have quite a good follow on strategy as the Lama battery is usable (in fact ideal) in the HoneyBee FP which saved me quite a bit when I bought the HBFP.

Flanker

Having thought some more on the thread subject. If I go from Lama to HoneyBee FP to say King V2 CP as my progression route then since my Lama I will still not have spent more than one third of what Mr Ashby had in mind, and in affordable lumps. There is no way I'm going to part with say £800 to see if I like Helis. £100 is a different matter....even when the Visa statemant is spotted by my wife!

Yes I know that little electric helis are twitchy, more difficult to fly and less able to fly in stronger winds than a 30 sized wallet buster, BUT I'll put up with that and hang on to the cash until I'm certain this is what I want to do.

Regards

 Gordon

[Towlie]

Hi guys

I know what you mean heli flying is expensive to start but there is a big difference between heli and fixed wing flying.

I fly both and started on fixed wing like you guys this was however a few years back before the indoor piccoz  and the like were available.

But waht you have to remember is that unlike a aircraft if you crash a heli your not looking at the full purchase price to repair or replace like a plane, now granted any little scrap or crash is gonna cost you with a heli but these are usually the same things boom, mast etc.

Crash a heli and it may look like a mess but unless your doing some thing pretty special your unlikely to actually do much damage it usaully looks worse than it is.Do the same with a plane and its a black bin bag job!

Also i would really advise you to go for a 30 size machine as these will cope with most conditions , spares are quite cheap and they are tons easier to learn on than a twitchy little leccy heli.

 So hope this helps and makes sense its a bit late.

[wlfk]

My experience is that you do have to spend money to get something that flies well and crashes gracefully. My flatmate bought a Walkera #4, for which he paid quite a lot, and the beastie never flew. Parts were expensive too. I know there are offerings out there that are better quality, but I've yet to see something that isn't collective pitch that feels solid. It isn't about whether it will do advanced aerobatics or not.

Even if you invest in an 'expensive' helicopter it seems to pay to invest in good parts. I splashed out on metal-geared servos and have yet to break one, but reading about on the forums it seems that people who go for plastic gears end up replacing gearsets every crash. It would drive me spare. I also recently invested in a metal rotorhead. When I had a plastic head I broke expensive parts all the time and it cost a bomb. I've yet to break anything in the metal rotor head, and have concluded that the plastic one was very much a false economy.

If I crash my T-Rex 450 it normally breaks the tailboom (£1), main shaft (£2), and feathering spindle (£1). If I'm unlucky it will damage the tail casing (£5) or some other part such as the canopy. So an average crash might add up to £10. Crashing isn't hugely expensive, so long as you don't do it too often - which I did at the start. This is on a T-Rex 450 with a full metal rotorhead. I think I sunk £200 into learning to hover all orientations and fly circuits - then one day to my great relief I suddenly stopped crashing. Much.

I would have chosen a T-Rex 450 to review on the grounds that you can get aftermarket parts on Ebay for much cheaper than the shops sell them. I pay something like 90p for a tailboom on Ebay, whereas the list price is £2.50 each. But if you go through the regular channels then big helicopters aren't actually that much more expensive than small helicopters. I sunk about £450 into my T-Rex 450 and £600 into my Logo 600. It's battery costs where you really see the difference.

And then, I personally never see the appeal of something that flies out of the box. I enjoy putting the things together, finding how they work - sometimes on quite a deep level. What happens if I put on 335mm blades rather than 325s? Why did my helicopter suddenly start to plummet whilst hovering (vortex ring). Why does an autorotation work so much better if you have a bit of forward airspeed? I can accept that some people might want to pick something up and simply learn to hover and there's nothing wrong with that. But I can't see how anyone could write a magazine series about it.

K

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Flanker .]

Aint it called transitional lift Eric ?  The forward speed helps the free wheeling rotor to give more lift ? Like I lknow what i¡'m talking about! Lets try to keep on thread here. We can chat about lovely helicopters elsewhere.I mean I ALWAYS stay on thread don't I?

And while I'm here guys remember that if you fly proper big helis then you probably won't know much about the new kids on the bloc because you already have a fine helicopter that you have learned to fly the "proper commited way". If you do fly 30 size machines please read my opening post first. 'Coz we know that if you are really SERIOUS about helis the you WILL want a big one to start with because you are INVESTING in the part of the sport that you want to pursue.

My point was that the wirl column seemed to be aimed at fixed wingers dipping in a sub two hundred pound toe and that ed boy suddenly veered off and told us to get serious or forget it.

AND I have tried one of these small machines and it was NOT twitchy ,not to me anyway, and ed's brother had no trouble with the twister cp, AFTER ed boy had sorted it, and that was what I was looking forward to in the column, how to get th best from these new cheap machines. F 

[wlfk]

Translational lift is a big part of it - and it's very impressive what a difference it makes. If you transition from the hover to forward flight the helicopter will climb a bit. If you try to auto the T-Rex 450 it will float down gently in a breeze, but plummet if you try one with no airspeed.

The other part is that you can convert forward speed to headspeed in a flare, to give you a bit of time to position yourself for a smooth landing.

K

[John Manning]

I must share your dissapointment and frustration. As a new newbie with a twister v2 and now a Blade Cx2 i thought we were going to get help on Building from a readily available kit.  There are not many heli kits about.  Most helis seem to be pre assembled in some way.  £169 for a kit is a lot of dosh,  I accept that, as a newcomer, other things like radio gear will be needed.  But I can buy several ready built machines complete with yet more transmitters for the same price.  Big difference is that they are availlable.  The swift as a kit of parts, rather than a kit of assemblies seems immpossible to get. Perhaps I should have purchased the X400 as a kit for £80 odd at the Nats.

On a more positive note, the weather in Nottinghamshire today was perfect for small electric aircraft.  My Blade actually flew with some sort of control!!!!  Fantastic, Get out and fly,

 Regards

John M.

[John Manning]

Thanks Jeff.  Your comment about RTF and actuality is very true. Just because the box says "flight tested" it dosn't mean you can fly it!  Somebody mentioned Radd and his instructions, very good they are and express the sentiment of a gradual build up.  After Nine battery charges my twister V2 is still in one peice, it hasn't flown. I have learnt a lot.  I note that Flanker has discovered the helicopter to valued possesion attraction.  This is something else that newbies don't realize, again pointers in the aticle could allay peoples worries about the ease or otherwise of flying helicopters.  Just get out and fly!

regards

JohnM.

[Owen Hailey]

Hi all

I seam to get the fealing that the big names players are getting all the publicity as Walkera Esky Eflite est., are still thoughtt of as toys not the case in my stable very good value cheap to buy and fly if your budget is small try the net it is the only way to go, as my nerest model shop is only 16 miles away but I find it exspensive un frendly and no one in the place takes you serious, so I passed on that one and go to the horses mouth and the H K shops this is where you get total service we need, the only set back is you do need to keep a stock of spares as parts take about a week to arive but this is a small price to play as if you by sevral itemes at a time the postage will be all one price.

happy flying Owen. 

[Tim Mackey]

Jeffrey, I have deleted your last two posts as the huge links were making it impossible to read the page. You have obviously not read the sticky thrread about how to insert links.

here

[Ant Sisley]

Hi All

 I used to subscribe to a few mags. Firstly RC Modelwold and RCM&E when I was into FW and then Model Helicopter World. The point I'm making is I understand mags like RCM&E cater for all aspects of flying and although it may be your favourite publication, if you are generally interested in helicopters, consider MHW or Rotorworld which are dedicated heli mags.

[joshua jones]

i know tis is a old thread now but could not help feeling i had to add a bit Ant has hit the nail on the head there i feel if you want to now helis buy a heli mag!!! As for the arguement of this machine or that machine whats the point! As a CP heli the principle of flight and set up are universal just on different scales. And spend what you WANT not what your told or are we to belive now that because someone puts it in a mag ts got to be that way surely not. I think maybe you have felt they write the excellent mag just for YOU and not for the thousands of other model enthusiasts that but it every month and whom im sure got alot from the article.