Phil Winks Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I also run a 4s setup (4000Mah 4S as opposed to 3300Mah 3S previously and nearly 60% higher Watts) on the EP Andy and to be fair the take of run is only 20% shorter if that, obviously she has a bit more weight to get airborne so take of and landing speeds are up too so I'd recommend this set up for the intermediate pilot not a total begginner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Posted by Andy48 on 28/06/2015 20:57:57: Posted by Dave Hopkin on 06/06/2015 17:15:12: Friday - Covering repaired - started to roll off the strip, grass too long really but I though I could get enough speed up, but no, rolling down the strip when she veered off violently to the left and was not responding to nose wheel input, large prop sending showers of grass cuttings over the wing! - powered off and checked, nose wheel servo had pulled out of the (what looks like liteply) mounting.... This is where the advantage of running on 4S really shows, the EP simply leaps into the air. Bigger wheels help too in long or wet grass. Its had a different motor fitted, 1250kv one and that allows me to use a smaller prop which on the grass on our field is a great advantage.... It doesnt need a 4S for general sports flying as long as the motor RPM is high enough, I used to fly it on a 4S, but found the landing speed was a little to high for the rough grass we have in the football season, so a 3S config drops the all up wieght and allows a slower approach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Posted by Phil Winks on 28/06/2015 21:04:05: I also run a 4s setup (4000Mah 4S as opposed to 3300Mah 3S previously and nearly 60% higher Watts) on the EP Andy and to be fair the take of run is only 20% shorter if that, obviously she has a bit more weight to get airborne so take of and landing speeds are up too so I'd recommend this set up for the intermediate pilot not a total begginner Firstly did you change props? This can make quite a difference, and in my case take-off was about 50% shorter. Secondly I ran mine on a 3,300Mah 4S, so not a major weight difference. The weight of the battery also depends on the C rating. A higher C rating generally increases the weight. Take off speed is purely down to throttle control, you do not have to use full throttle. As a beginner I found the 4S setup much easier. Why does everyone assume an underpowered model is easier to fly for a beginner? I have seen 2 members at our club with EPs both crash on take-off because of using 3S and needing a much longer take off run. Like me, both also found it much easier when they replaced the 3S with a 4S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Personally rather than simply change upto a 4S I would be looking at the choice or motor/prop combination as to the reason why their aircraft were underpowered - a general rule of thumb is "the lighter it is the better it is" So replacing the motor with one of a higher Kv rating and/or adjusting the prop size would, to me, be a far better solution than the clarksonesque approach of just adding voltage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janos Deak Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Hi, With my 3S / 11x8,5 setup with the emax GT2826-4 (1100kv) motor it peaks at 565W. Also, I feel that there is room for some more power that the airframe can handle, but it never felt slugish. With 4S it would give 850+W... an extra +50% power for a 10% weight gain. Sure, the math looks good, but I have 5pcs 3s packs and only 1pc 4S... that explains my choice The 3S/2800 25/30C packs are bit borderline, they get warm by the end of the run - generally I fly 5 minutes with them. It jumps into the air in just a few meters - it is clearly visible from my videos (just search youtube for "Seagull HA-VIK). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Posted by Dave Hopkin on 29/06/2015 13:36:09: Personally rather than simply change upto a 4S I would be looking at the choice or motor/prop combination as to the reason why their aircraft were underpowered - a general rule of thumb is "the lighter it is the better it is" So replacing the motor with one of a higher Kv rating and/or adjusting the prop size would, to me, be a far better solution than the clarksonesque approach of just adding voltage Its a bit naïve to simply suggest I have a clarksonesque approach (whatever that is) to power ratings. Were you there when I was trying out different power combinations? I think not. If you read my post above you will see that indeed I suggest adjusting the prop size. The Kv rating is not directly linked to power rating, so increasing the Kv could actually reduce the power. Going to 4S increases the weight by some 60g, but can increase power by 30%. This is a tiny increase on a plane weighing in at 2kg. Running a BL2820 on 4S with a 12x6 prop gives a static thrust of over 2kg. Edited By Andy48 on 29/06/2015 18:43:15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janos Deak Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Hi again, After 43 successful full-battery flights and an undamaged plane, I call it a day - well actually a year We have below zero temp now so I am switching from flying mode to build mode Thanks again for the support - and all I can say, this config worked pretty well Cheers Janos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janos Deak Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oops Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Does anyone know where I can get Pioneer wing bolts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Surely they will be a standard metric size - M4 or M5? Nylon bolts that size are easy to get from almost any model shop but try Model fixings who will have the largest selection. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Bertram Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I can't check as I am in France at the moment but I think that they are the 1/4-20 UNC thumb screws which I got from model fixings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Bertram Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Yep, they are talked about on page 7 of this thread. Seem to remember cutting mine down to size and giving the ends a slight chamfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oops Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I'm not sure if they are metric or if Seagull is USA based. They're unusual in that they have vertical blades for thumb finger on top of the bolt head. I'll have look at that link, thanks. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oops Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Thanks Bob,. Thumb screws! Great, I didn't know what they were called which has made googling difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oops Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I've just looked at model fittings. Those white thumb screws aren't the same, what I have are black plastic bolts not screws and were vertical blades on the bolt head. Similar to this: **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Ignore the screws/bolts thing - what you have are technically screws not bolts! The blade is just a style thing - some have blades - some have knurled end caps - you take your pick. These will work just as well (if you get the right size) as what you had. If you really must have an exact replacement then you'll need to shop around for them - SMC might have them they tend to stock a lot of that type of stuff. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Hobbyking sell them. However they are only in the International Warehouse. I'm pretty sure they are M4. Seagull is based in Vietnam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Chris Bott found these. Similar -but note that that the tread doesn't go all the way to the head - I don't know if that is a problem for you? BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Bertram Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 They are definitely American size 1/4-20 UNC and not metric. I bought the white ones from Model Fixings for my Epioneer and they fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Rae Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 I have an E Pioneer for sale if anyone is interested, never flown but has the servo's controler and motor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy48 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Posted by Bob Bertram on 12/04/2016 06:42:00: They are definitely American size 1/4-20 UNC and not metric. I bought the white ones from Model Fixings for my Epioneer and they fit. I have another Seagull model which uses the same screws, my E-Pioneer having been passed on. I have used metric bolts in that and they work perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oops Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Posted by Ken Rae on 12/04/2016 16:30:15: I have an E Pioneer for sale if anyone is interested, never flown but has the servo's controler and motor! Can I have just the wing bolts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oops Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 No be, mine have a shank, they're bolts. Maybe they're not oem. Anyway I've had enough good suggestions, time now to order. I've actually just switched the rx from spectrum to multiplex (bought secondhand at club auction), being a beginner (club solo but no 'A' yet) I didn't find it that easy but was pleased to get the tX set up, only to find I'm a wing bolt short so I couldn't fly anyway! Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/04/2016 22:14:00: Ignore the screws/bolts thing - what you have are technically screws not bolts! The blade is just a style thing - some have blades - some have knurled end caps - you take your pick. These will work just as well (if you get the right size) as what you had. If you really must have an exact replacement then you'll need to shop around for them - SMC might have them they tend to stock a lot of that type of stuff. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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