Spektrum AR500 brownout recovery slow

[stuey]

Hi, i have just bought 2 Spektrum AR500 receivers which have this issue. I have read on an international electric based forum that the receivers should recover after a brownout (receiver power dropping too low) almost instantaneously. This is consistent with my AR9000 and AR6100e receivers, and i thought now standard throughout the range. I have tested both by very quickly turning the rx power off then back on again, resulting in between 3-4 seconds before they respond. I have spoken to Horizon who said to send them back for an update, which is ok but means i cop the postage and have to wait. I haven't even installed them in a model yet, and i'm aware of the need to maintain a suitable supply of power at all times. It doesn't hurt to have this feature available, shame they weren't sorted from the factory...

[Tim Mackey]

I have warned on this forum several times before in various threads that although HH claim that all DSM2 Rxs shipped to the UK since early spring this year are supposedly QC enabled ( firmware ver 1.6 or higher ) some retailers / distributors are STILL selling old stock !

I have always insisted that any Rxs I bought throughout all this year ( about 5 in all I think from various suppliers) were checked as QC enabled before they were dispatched to me as I will NOT pay for them to be returned to HH in the event that they are old stock.

So far, this tactic seems to have worked.

PS the QC firmaware is a definate essential for any DSM Rx.....and I will NOT fly a unit which is not so equipped

( other than one model I own which uses the excellent DSM1 AR6000 Rx )

[stuey]

I think the two i have bought came from tx/rx combos as they were out of stock. Since the new Spektrum5ch tx has only recently come out, i assumed a new type of receiver would be up to date with the current specs. Its not like brownouts are a new thing is it? Be nice if Horizon offered to refund my postage costs, i might ask what they think of this idea. I know the postage isn't the end of the world, but i don't like sending valuables without being insured for loss etc.

Hope this might be useful for anyone else out there who may have just bought a AR500 rx.

[Tim Mackey]

There  are reports on other forums ( gosh yes I do frequent others from time to time also! ) that this new 5 channel Rx is taking longer to re-connect after a brown out than almost any /all other spektrum receivers....so it might be that yours is indeed the latest firmware, but it simply doesnt work as well as the others!

I should check again with HH UK before you post anything off to them

[stuey]

I have just received the receivers back and tested them. They both now respond instantly once power is restored, be it power off/on quickly or left switched off for 10 seconds. Much more like what they should have been doing, although I'm not 100% sure if they are replacements or updated with some firmware.

Now to see if i can get my £4.60 postage back from them...

[Tim Mackey]

I wouldnt hold much hope for that !

[Tim Mackey]

Interestingly, and somewhat annoyingly, I too have just received a 500 in the npost this morning from a well known UK supplier, and it too is taking around 2 seconds to re-connect on brown outs !!

As these are brand new Rxs on the market this year, and all DSM2 Rx shipped since April of this year are supposed to be QC enabled it makes me wonder what is going on here !

[stuey]

Bummer, is it a new boxed rx or like mine taken from a combo and quite likely the first batch??

[Tim Mackey]

"boxed" and new EG: in a sealed plastci-card and cardboard type affair, with its own seperate price stickers on ( £39.99 and £34.99 which is obviously the latest price ).

Interestingly also, there is no firmware version printed on it anywhere as there is on the 6100s.

I may email HH in the US and see what they have to say about the situation, as I find HH in the UK a bit weak on their responses

[stuey]

Doesnt sound like a possiblr first batch going into tx/rx combos then...

[John Wheater]

Long time no movement here.........

Did you write to HH Stateside Timbo?
What is the current situation with AR500s?

Did they recall? I never saw one.

Is there another thread?

I have two AR500s bought from Robotbirds at the end of last year. 

A couple of weeks ago I suffered what I now consider to be a 'brown out' in a fast EDF. Control was returned in sufficient time for me to make a pancake landing in crops. The aircraft wasn't damaged.

A week later a friend of mine had a similar occurrence with a fast EDF, again, fortunately, no damage. Both a/c were using separate 4.8V Rx battery packs which were fully charged will not show up any fault on test.

This weekend I had a phone call from a chum elsewhere in the country, a light WWI biplane on approach lost it and dived in for no reason sustaining damage. I asked him what the Rx was and he replied an AR500 using the BEC on the ESC.

I wrote to Horizon UK last night asking for authority to return the Rxs for upgrade but I haven't had a reply today. To be frank I don't think I want them upgrading, I want my money back. I can't trust them again. And I am not going to let this one rest.

 

WILL THE NEW 2.4 Ghz Rx OFFERINGS FROM FUTABA, JETI etc WORK OK WITH A SPEKTRUM RECEIVER?

[John Wheater]

Oh, by the by, reconnect times on these receivers is three seconds plus.

[Tim Mackey]

1) No.

2) still being shipped as recently as 3 weeks ago  with old firmaware.

3) Nope cos its not actually a fault - just an enhancement ( like windows updates )

4) not in this forum as far as I know

 

Personally, I would simply send them to HH UK and they will be back very quickly with the latest firmware - they are great Rx actually so dont despair. Forget the email response / no response...just send em in. You wont get your money back as this is NOT a fault as such ( see above )

 

 Did the Rx LED indicate that you had suffered a brown out - if you did not check before switching off  ( Rx or Tx ) then you cannot be sure it was brown out. Unlikely INO with a seperate battery supply anyway unless a large heavy multi servo model.

 

5) No. 2.4 Ghz is unique to its brand ( except JR and spekky which are basically the same )

3 seconds + is DEFINATELY NOT the latest firmware. latest takes milliseconds only

[John Wheater]

I have had a reply from Horizon which states, as one would expect, that there is nothing wrong with the AR500 and they will be happy to upgrade mine. If there is nothing wrong with them why should they need upgrading? However, it seems that even upgrading the firmware is no assurity.

 

This evening I have had an e-mail from a friend at the other side of the country:

Quote:

I was down at the flying field this afternoon when I overheard a conversation about Billy who had bought a new receiver but had to have it upgraded and had then had three crashes with it. Sure enough it was a AR500. Several people chimed in about them, all with adverse reports. All the information was second hand but it seems to be common knowledge that there is a problem.

 

By the by, I have learned that one of the crashes I have reported is most unlikely to have been a battery low as he was flying with a 6V receiver pack.

 

Looks like there may only be three of us reading this forum. Respectfully, is there any chance of an open general question on the performance of the product in the headers Mr. Ashby?

[Brian Parker]

There are probably several people looking-in.

I am currently using two AR500s.

 One has been in use for some time, it does not quick connect taking about 2 seconds to reconnect when tested. I do not see this as a problem as I will not put the setup in a brown out situation.

The second, from Inwoods, does quick connect and has been in use for a couple of months.

These are great little receivers and have proved to be 100% reliable.

 Many point the finger at the poor little AR500 when perhaps they should be pointing elsewhere.

[Tim Mackey]

I have always said that they are great Rxs...and as also sateted by me in my earlier post the slow QC is NOT a fault as such...its an enhancement. As Brian says, either dont use them in critical applications unless the FREE update has been implemented, or I suggest you use a quality power supply to ensure that brown out does not occur in the first place. It is impossible to "take sides" as it were with the several people who are complaining as we simply dont have all the facts. Even stating that one person was using a 6V battery is not proof positive that the installation was correct.

[John Wheater]

Thanks for the post Brian.
I sincerely hope you never have a problem with your AR500s. The point is there have been a number, both QC and non-modified, that have gone into a 'brown out' situation for no apparent reason. What I am trying to establish is how many.

 

How do you know you will never put yours in 'a brown out situation'? The batteries on all those I have referred to have been fine and they have all been no more than about 200 yds from the operator when the problems have occurred.

 

I get your drift about where fingers should be pointing. I have been flying R/C for thirty years, Spektrum for two years, have seven AR7000s (all QC modified by Horizon), an AR6000 and an AR6100 and I have never had a problem with any except the AR500.

[John Wheater]

Thanks Timbo.

 

I am just trying to establish how big the problem is.

 

The chap that had a problem with the 6V installation is a very experienced flier, a BMFA regional rep and a qualified examiner.

[Tim Mackey]

Fairy snuff.

Of course there is apossibility that it was not a brown out at all - as you know, many things can go wrong with this sport

The only spekky Rx I have ever had a problem with was the AR6100E and that I put down to loss of signal due to the single aerial situation and the fact that it was in amodel that was ot a "park flier". User error in other words.

[Brian Parker]

John,
You have more RC flying experience than me. Like many other members of this Forum, I am a retired returner to model flying. I do, however, in my defence, have a slight knowledge of radio electronics.

You ask how I hope to avoid brownout.

 Briefly. A Spektrum brownout occurs when the supply voltage to the receiver drops below 3.5volts. It is voltage induced, not RF induced. Therefore to prevent brownout the system must be capable of maintaining a supply voltage without any substantial drop (less than one volt on a 6 volt system).

 Monitored under a simulated full load the battery must demonstrate sufficient capacity. Cables need to be as short as practical and of sufficient rating with quality connectors (ie Deans).

 Extension leads should be avoided by replacing with a single cable.

 All soldered joints need to be of high quality.

 If extension leads/connectors have to be used then secure the connector with heat shrink.

If using a regulator, it should be a linear type.

 The weakest link in the circuit will then be the connection plug to the receiver, probably a bit over the top to solder in place.

 Secure the system against vibration.

Keep cool.

 With a QC enabled receiver a brownout may occur without being noticed and the fact that the setup has an inadequate power supply could be overlooked. Also brownout voltage is close to digital servo cut off voltage.

There is a previous lengthy thread (led by Timbo) on brownouts.

Incidentally, as you will be aware, antenna installation is critical, to optimise reception consider their polarisation and also keep the two apart to avoid mutual impedance. Again there is a previous thread on polarisation.

[Tim Mackey]

Brian... why do you say that any regulator used should be of linear type, rather than switching. I appreciate that these may induce less / no interference due to their MO, but I have / do used switch mode BECs with no trouble on my Spektrum systems, as well of course, as the linear BECs which are part of combo ESCs. Just curious

[Brian Parker]

Sorry, a senior moment.
Meant to say switch mode not linear.

[Tim Mackey]

LOL

Senior moments eh..... dont you just hate 'em!

[John Wheater]

Oh Timbo, you have two years to go before you are allowed a senior moment.
I have just been looking at your Hawke with an e. We seem to have similar non-aero interests, go to my albums where I present for you Not a Hawke. It's the Omaha Special, I built it from scratch fifteen years ago. It's on 15" wheels and a Herald chassis. There are bits of all sorts of cars in its make up, some you may recognise, some you won't. I sold it but apparently it's still going strong albeit painted black now.

[Tim Mackey]

Thats very nice John - and I have added comments to your album