Wave

[Ton van Munsteren]

Hi Brian,

 

From a wet Dordrecht Holland

 

Sounds good with the hinges you also could have used the option with the wire as used in controle line that works also very nice. How do you call that cross over under or

 

I will use shrink tubing to hold the 0.8 wire together, along with the collet on final assembly.    What do you mean with this.

 

How did you arrive at the thrust-line of the motor?

In a model with the trustline above the fuse and wing, you need a positive thrustline as downtrust setup.  For some it can be confusing that the motor need to go up, unstead of down.

 

Because of the highlift wing profile I normaly use max +1 degree for the wing and start for the downtrust with +1 on the motor when I'm correct it was later increased to +2 as it is per plan. For me it was about 4 mm that the motorstand was raised at the frond on the wing and that makes it +2 degrees. Its always the testflight that sets the right setup on the trustline.

 

For the motor choice I came up with the Typhoon motor because I have seen it earlier perform in a RBC warbird of about 900 grams and made me convince this would made a nice motor and prop setup for the Wave. But there are a lot more nice motors which are equal to this motor and will work just fine.

 

Ton 

 

 

 

 

 

  

Edited By Ton van Munsteren on 15/11/2009 12:42:36

[Ton van Munsteren]

Hi Brian

 

Answering your other questions

 

Were the first flights with / without the floats?

No on the first flight the floats wear to small and the float went under water when giving power so the first liftoff was from sand and even one from grass, but not from water.

 

I am tempted to go for plug in floats with the vertical stays reinforced withcarbon  flat / rod.

Yes way not I gess you will be using 2 tubes in a row so the float will not rotate.

 

I liked the idea of the the carbon rod pushing into a squeezed O ring.

 Yes I gess that would work the force on the float is always for the frond or siteways.

No pulling on the float so it should stay in place with the O-rings.

 

Ton

[brian pain]

Ton

 

Again many thanks for your answers.

 

I started the wing, floats and motor pod this morning (Monday 16Nov09).

 

Motor pod - any chance of a photo of your current version, as you have transferred the ESC to the fuselage. I am going to beef up the construction I think M2 and M3 are transposed on the plan.

 

Waterproofing - I am going to box the servos and polythene bag the RX and ESC. I will buy a large jar of vaseline to try and reduce the chances of water getting past the wires / leads.

 

Fuselage - As I wait for the wing items to dry, I will slowly finish covering the fuz. The white nylon is going on nicely. The controls are now done. I will try and attach a photo of my control horns and the single collet.

 

Tailplane / Fin - covering is not straightforward if glued to the fuz. It would be if covered as a complete unit before slotting in the fuselage.

 

Brian

 

[Ton van Munsteren]

Brian,

Yes M3 is used for fixing the motorstand to the wing.

 

The ESC in now with velcro mounted on the wing and only the 3 motor wires go trough the stand to the motor.

I did not waterproof the radio gear what I did do is waterproofing the wing on the fuse with silicone and that works perfect.

 

Did you not cover the stab before placing it in the fin, as discribed in the article.

 

Ton 

[brian pain]

Good morning Ton

 

Waterproofing - I forgot about your text / instructions on waterproofing the wing / fuselage seal. Thanks.

 

Motor pod / mount - It had not occured to me to just velcro the ESC to the underside of the wing. I had hoped for a photo of the motor pod / mount you are now using, after moving the ESC. I think you have reinforced the area immediately behind the  motor, maybe covering the fixing bolts with two or four triangular fillets.

 

Weight - any chance of providing the weight of the airframe, excluding electrics.  You have a photo showing 520 gm and the article has 'All-up weight 790 g. The two articles on seaplanes  in the RCME mag are fascinating re weights and motors.

 

Brian

[brian pain]

HI Ton

 

Wing floats - built and now drying. Looking at the 3 mm liteply and flex I will have a hard look at a minor reinforcing down the 'leg'. I also like my idea of plug in floats. I can then first fly & trim without floats. Then I can fly & trim with floats. Then I can attempt take-offs with some confidence (after some taxiing and chasing the ducks!).

 

Motor pod / mount - I have built mine this morning. I used 2 mm ply (per the plan), which is then sheathed in 3 mm liteply..

 

Wing - Two centre ribs out of 2 mm ply - cut out this morning. The lug fits the fuz former (F5) nice and snugly.

 

BUT the motor pod has only a 2 mm slot to fit over the 4 mm (two 2mm ribs) combined centre ribs. What have I done wrong? I cannot see anything from your photos.

Should the plan say 4 mm and so producing a 4 mm slot?

Do the motor leads slide down the 2 mm slot ok?

 

Brian

[Ton van Munsteren]

Hi Brian,

 

Sorry for my late reply ;

 

Yes about the Motor Pod your completely right there is a triangular piece of balsa and made some pics to show, hope this makes things clear.

 

 

About the weight of the model as it is right now was dun one page back here is a copy of the post;

 

Mine now weighs 805 gr including my new Hyperion 3S 2100 Lipo pack.

Without the weight of the Lipo motor Typhoon 15/10 and controller the weight of the Wave incl servo's is 535 grams.

 

 

The thickness of the motor stand shoud have mentioned 2x 2mm with 3mm on both sides I thought that it would be clear because the wings ribs are also 2x 2mm.

And the slot in the motorplate are also 4mm.

 

Don't think you can leave it with the 2mm opening because it will not go over the ribs.

Best is to take one site of 3mm off and place another plate off 2mm.

 

Ton

 

 

 

 

 

 

[brian pain]

Good afternoon Ton from an extremely wet Redhill, Surrey

 

Again your comments and further photos help regarding my earlier queries.

 

Motor pod / pylon - I have decided to make a new pylon, as the weather is so awful. My motors have quite fat connectors and I will now slowly make the pylon to allow the use of these connectors. I may have to chop them off but your pylon was designed to incorporate the motor and ESC. I am now inclined to run the lead to the ESC outside the pylon, through the wing and finally to the ESC which will be Velcroed to the underneath of the wing..

 

Floats - these are finished and covered in tissue. They will be painted white (I have just bought the white paint) Yesterday I decided to glue two 2mm ply 'tabs' to each of the ribs and fasten the floats with the two screws. I also fattened the top of the float strut to fit snugly inside the two tabs.

 

Wing panels - these are finished and await decisions regarding the wing ribs W2. I have glued the two ribs together. As I type this I have two wing panels. I have binned the original wing joiner / brace. Instead I will cut two new braces that will fit top and bottom of the wing panels. They will fit behind the spare.and locate the glued W2 ribs.

 

I hope to finish the wing by tomorrow and so move to a week of covering

[Ton van Munsteren]

Hi Brian,

 

I hope no floods

 

Looking forward seeing some pics of you Wave and getting more curious by the minute.

 

 

 

Did hear from RBCKITS that there are already 25 cnc sets sold of the Wave.

So there must be some more of you guys building at the moment.

 please

 

Ton

 

[brian pain]

Good evening / morning Ton.

 

I am now back in Milton Keynes.

 

Wing - I have now fitted my dihedral braces - I think 2mm ply will be ok - behind the spar (silly error above). I am not doing any aerobatics with this wing! Not intentionally! I have taken the lug off the W2  ply ribs and glued them to one wing panel. Tomorrow morning I will glue the two panels together. I have decided to attach the wing with elastic bands (gluing in the two dowels first of course) or with a dowel at the front and retaining screw at the rear. I will decide which method on Tuesday morning.

 

Photos - I will try to upload a few photos on Tuesday afternoon.

 

Brian

 

PS I hope my dinghy (a 12 foot Lightning) has not floated down the river when our lake flooded over the last few days! I will check sometime on Tuesday / Wednesday.

 

 

[brian pain]

Ton

 

Wing - My wing panels are now joined and the wing might be covered by tomorrow night. My progress will dictated by the weather here in MK. I hope to sail this afternoon. see photos in my album.

 

Fuselage - I hope to cover this on Thursday or Friday

 

Electrics - I hope to make the extension by Saturday to allow the ESC to sit under the wing. I might need an extension between the ESC and the LIPO.

 

Trimming flights - taxiing trials will be on the nearby river - about 300 metres away here in Stony Stratford, which is north Milton Keynes. I will locate some soft grass for the first flights - without floats to start with. This could be next week!!

 

Brian

 

 

[Ton van Munsteren]

Brian,

 

Thanks for the pics, the Wave is beauty looking really good. 

 

Man youre in a hurry and running on a tight schedule.

 

Wish you luck on the maiden with all the rain, taking of from wet grass will work just fine.

 

Ton

 

 

[Ton van Munsteren]

Hi Brian,

 

All sound good to me and leaving the ESC dangling is also no problem when it stays clear from the servo's.

 

Nice pics the Wave is looking good also good to let the Wave sniff a little on the lake for motivation.

 

Any more progress.

 

Ton

[brian pain]

Good morning Ton - from a very grey and damp Milyon Keynes

 

I am on the last five hours! - see my photo album.

 

I posed by the side of the bird bath - neither airframe or pilot were concerned.

The model could be taxiing this week - everything depends on the weather.

I have some long grass available for the trimming flights before water action / contacts.

My ESC is velcroed to the underneath of the wing.

Simple engine cowling / waterproofing fuz / wing join are outstanding.

 

Brian

 

[Ton van Munsteren]

Hi Brian,

 

The Wave looks great thanks for the pic, hope you have as much fun as I had and still having fun with the model.

 

Good luck on your maiden and all the flights after that.

 

Thanks for taking the effort building my design. great fun for me seeing you build this model and enjoy every minut of it.

 

Makes it worth for me sticking a lot of time making a drawing for you guys.

And what do you know there are more models to come.

 

Ton

[brian pain]

Good evening / mornng Ton

 

I checked out the link to your club (?) and there was a photo of your Wave with wheels!

 

So:

 

Location / Method of attachment?

Size and weight of wheels?

Impact on CG?

Flying characteristics?

Photo(s) please!

 

Any comments on different batteries you have used with the Wave - weights & duration please.

New photo in my album

 

Brian

[Ton van Munsteren]

Hi Brian,

 

Made some pics to show how its dun, hope this makes things clear.

 

The plastic tube is running from left to right its as simple as that.

 

No impact on CG.

No impact on flying.

Wheels are Robbe lightweight foam 64mm or equil.

Wire is 2mm thick. 

 

 

Almost ready for action.

 

Works nice and easy.

 

 

About the batterie;   I now switched to 2200 mah Lipo think that will give about 15min flight. 

 

The old 1500 lipo was about 10 min flight or more never checked.

 

Never look on the clock when Iam having fun, sorry.

 

Ton

[brian pain]

Good evening Ton

9Dec09 Haversham, North Milton Keynes.

 Weather light breeze dying to near calm in the late afternoon - the water was approaching a mirror surface during these initial trials
a) try the water rudder out - it worked very well at different speeds.
b) try steering a straight line - this was very satisfactory at different speeds.
c) will it go on the step just before taking off - using more power the hull rose up out of the water.
d) the model was then removed from the water and all excess water was removed by tissue.
e) the model needs to be fully waterproofed - on the wing where the motor electric harness goes into the cabin and the wing / fuselage joint.

f) engine cowling needs sorting out

 

The above was great fun. It must fly next week

The floats per the plan are weak - the grain needs to be vertical not horizontal.

I have now broken both here in the house or car.

 

Brian

Edited By Tim Mackey - Administrator on 27/03/2011 13:47:31

[brian pain]

Good evening Ton

Log 16Dec09 Haversham, North Milton Keynes

No wind; ice lying on the ground; time 9.30; overcast; snow forecast

The model did not track in a straight line.

The floats were not aligned exactly the same as last week - perhaps attached too quickly at 8.45am before leaving!

Several runs were tried. It came up on the step. It left the water twice for a few seconds.

Two hand launches were tried. The first appeared underpowered - i.e. 75%, the second at full power with some up elevator and it just flipped over on its back within ten seconds.

In the workshop there was water in the nose and below the servos. The wing / fuz joint had been sealed with sealant. This water may have affected the CG for the hand launches.

The next day an important wood joint came apart and an important piece of wood just fell out.

I now realise the fuselage structure's integrity has been damaged by this serious ingress of water.

I now plan to test the airframe as a glider at Ivinghoe Beacon (in the Chilterns) on the Monday morning after Christmas - 27th to be precise. I do hope it performs muh better than yesterday.

 

[Ton van Munsteren]

Hi Brian,

 

Thats some bad luck you had there, but why did you handlaunch.

 

You tell it left the water twice what happend than.

 

Ton

[brian pain]

Good morning Ton from a very snowy Milton Keynes (and cold)

 

The hand launh was always a first option, but I tried off water first.

 

Until the model flies from a hand launch I will not fly off water.

I have my doubts regarding Cof G and basic handling.

It might be too heavy; the motor may lack power.

 

My first seaplane (a Vietnam ARTF) was a great flyer from hand launch and a great flyer from a local river in Ely, nr Cambridge (the Fens). We used an OS 46 & Irvine 53 (more reliable tickover).

 

After the trials of the 9th I thought it would smoothly take off & fly successfully.

After the trials of the 16th I now have doubts regarding my model.

The floats are now receiving attention.

 

On the 16th the model did leave the water (see photo in my album) but it promptly swung round and returned to the water. It left the water for just a few seconds. I should have checkedfor water ingress. I am certain my fuselage will now have a very short life.

 

In the October 2009 RCME they also hand launched the Britflight review model first. It flew very well.

It then flew very well off water. Apparently many have been sold since the Summer of 2009. I nearly bought one at Old Warden - but I have given up buying on impulse.

My decision not to buy was a mistake - I know that now.

 

Brian

[brian pain]

Good morning Ton from a very white snow covered Milton Keynes

 

I have returned from the West Country - Bristol and Bath, but not Cornwall due to the weather

Flight 1 Car Park; 75% power; perfect launch; after 15/20 secs rolled to right; crash
Flight 2 Car Park; 75% power; perfect launch; after 20 / 25 secs rolled to left; crash
Flight 3 Triangle; glide only; perfect launch; gently glided down slope and landed perfectly after 25/30 secs
Flight 4 Triangle; 25% power; perfect launch; after 30/40 secs rolled over and crashed.
Range checked in car park - glide mode ok; full power mode ok;
Complete mystery
Obscure radio failure? … change RX from Jeti to Hitech? Reduce plugs / sockets
Feedback from club member in the evening in the evening - vicious stall due to lack of power / cg wrong

Plan A - CG forward by one cm; use full power at launch, change the Rx

Repair damage to the fuselage caused by the battery

Brian

 

Edited By Tim Mackey - Administrator on 27/03/2011 13:48:10

[Ton van Munsteren]

Hello Brian,

 

Great to hear youre still trying to fly the Wave.

Sorry but I do not understand what is happening with your Wave.

Earlier you did tell that the power is to marginale but your takeoffs are all with 75% or even less why is there no full power launch.

 

It fly's for 20 sec and than it rolls and crashes to me thats a range problem.

Did you do a range check with the distance you have flown or walk a little further away say 40-50 sec distance.

 

With a good glide and landing on flight-3 I don't thing the CG is the problem.

It never hurts to move the CG forward but it all sound very strange to me.

 

Would it be possible to film the next flight so I can see what is happening.

 

Good luck.

 

Ton

Edited By Ton van Munsteren on 17/01/2010 11:26:07

[Ton van Munsteren]

 

For some more Wave building motivation here are some pics of the Dutch forum;

Ton

[graham kindberg1]

Gone a bit quiet here eh? finaly cleared the workshop enough to start the wave, two in fact as one is for a friend who is stalled on another project. Both fuselages have been completed and im about to start the wings. Never been one to leave well enough alone, i have decided to put alerons on to suite my flying style! (totaly undiciplined).

I will be halving the dihedral, and of course will need to look reducing the lenght of the float supports. What wattage range have been used on these models? Finish intended is paint over coverall polyurethaned on with carbon fiber tissue on the bottom of the hull, also polyuerthaned on, film on flying surfaces. Regarding the plan, I did find it took some concetration to comprehend, perhaps as the design style being different to what im used too. The photos available do help a lot, having said that, it has been a very enjoyable build experience.

 

Graham