JOHN THOMPSON 5

The closing of BAE is just another nail in the uk coffin, before too long this country will have lost its skill base so eventually we won't be able to manufacture anything, the schools are the main cause of this , they don,t teach the kids any real values , and any of the kids that take "" business studies"" don't learn about real business they learn about the art of the fast buck , and done via the internet equates to "selling something you know nothing about to someone you've never met" and everyone wonders where customer service has gone! . Another telling point on the enditment of our once great nation is that this week a call center company actually moved from India to Burnley in Lancashire because its cheaper, so its official we're now a third world country .

I,ll be there Friday afternoon to Sunday afternoon, the WEBBIT has maidened but some how deadsticks seem to be a bit of a trademark at the moment   John

Sorry Tim , my mistake, perhaps this thread has had its uses after all, I hope theres no hard feelings the intention was'nt to wind everyone up , but it does make you think does,nt it? all the best to John

TIM, I take exeption to that last post, I started this thread as a simple survey to find what to put in a risk assessment to suit everyone. the simple answer is it probably suits no one , thats fine , saves me a job. mmm 300 years in H&S a bit of an impossibility really don,t you think? its silly comments like that , that turned this thread per shaped . All in all good intention wasted.

Thanks for the encouragement 2Fly, really its all about covering yourself if you hurt someone, and if your a flyer who can honestly say that , when I,m stood in the dock I have everything I need to clear myself of negligence then fine all the best to you, and since most flyers seem to be in that position then fine, I think I,ll finish the RA that I started and a copy wil in due course be made available via e-mail for those strange folk that do bother about such things. John

Okay , okay I get the message , I was only asking for a few ideas for a tightly focused risk assesment to help out a few like minded flyers , it was 'nt ment to be a national overhaul of the aeromodelling industry, so I suppose for now the BMFA hand book will have to surfice all the best John  

Risk Assessments are not a legal requirement , but under the 1974 health and safety at work act you have a duty of care not only to your fellow man but yourself as well , and you are expected to describe how you intend to pursue this duty of care ie a risk assessment. and yes a good risk assessment should be based on common sense.   Is the use of H and S guidance in the aeromodelling world a step too far ? ask any barrister whos had to defend a client against the HSE .

Hi Lindsay, Unfortunately I don,t as yet have a copy of the BMFA handbook , but if as BEB says , there is a procedure stated but no HAZARD listed or RISK graded then quite simply it is not a risk assessment, BEB, a risk assessment is no more than a guidance note, and, as long as your ability to control a risk is not over stated ie don, t say that you will have a fire appliance on stand by every time you attempt to start your plane , when you Know you obviously can not ( a little extreme but you know what I'm getting at) then any come back on the author would be minimised. At the end of the day it is a personal decision as to whether a flyer would follow this guidance , so as long as it is deemed to be best working practice by all concerned , those that chose not to bother with it are really on there own .

Hi all, due to a lengthy discussion on a current thread, which describes quite graphically coming together of one thumb and a irvine 40 driven prop, talk came around to risk assessments, so with my background of nearly 20 years working alongside the HSE , I offered to write a generic risk assesment, but for a risk assessment to be of any use it has to be acceptable to all users. anyone who wishes to adopt the finished guidance notes will find that some flyers will be directed to things that they should be doing were as others will be discouraged from doing things that they should'nt, the main premise is that common sense prevails. Our models are dangerous and have associated risks that would not be acceptable in any other walk of life, so this is our chance to manage these risks. So if you have anything to offer on this subject nows your chance . all the best John

I will compile a risk assessment on starting ic engines , however I feel that basing the RA on my feelings is not going to suit everyone, perhaps a new thread should be started to get some suggestions for inclusion, I already have a basic structure for the RA but it would be nice to see what everyone else thinks. John

Hi Bob sorry its me again, just been looking through my projects file, and found something that I had forgotten about. I started writing a risk assesment for the flight line a few years ago and never got around to finishing it, it is in the form of a small hand book that also include pre-flight logs , may not sound necessary but in view of my previous post it all helps. all the best John.

Hi all , just been reading some of the comments on risk assessments, firstly , the hse rubbish that you see in the media is usually from half wit councillors who mis- interpret the guida.nce notes. secondly, a good risk assessment , won't necessarily alter the risk , it uses what we have in the way of procedure , enhancies critical points , and in turn uses the out come to manage the risk more efficiently. What this means is that , if I write a risk assessment I would'nt call for guards on all props, the factories act 1974 would'nt call for it ( that is what we would be working under in this case). I think that as well as us lot going some way to look after each other the engine manufacturers should take a stance on fitting rear mounted carbs as standard, and to compliment this , remote starters should be made mandatory on IC s and in my humble opinion should be a club requirement. Part of the job of writing a risk assesment is playing devils advocate, to do this, think of the worst thing that can happen, a flyer gets killed in any one of a number of possible though extremely rare cases (thankfully). so what happens then? 1/ call for an ambulance 2/ police would need informing 3/ HSE would be brought in ( which would mean leaving the scene intact) 4/ HSE enquirey started ( which may require all members present) 5/ Correners report produced 6/ Blame will be assesed and possibly taken to court. 7/ If it gets this far someone is up for manslaughter and or negligence. this the point where the accused gets to argue his/her corner, paperwork is now everything , a well structured and considered risk assessment may well get you off the hook by showing that you have done everything - legal term- REASONABLY FORESEEABLE to prevent this incident from occurring Sorry if this sounds alarmist but this actually happens all the time in some industry, and as our hobby would fall under the factories act ( believe it or not ) this could happen to any flyer.        Edited By JOHN THOMPSON 5 on 11/03/2011 08:50:16

Hi Bob, I think you were lucky not to lose your thumb , it just proves that our planes are most certainly not toys, with my other hat on I have been nearly twenty years working alongside the HSE on fairground safety . I now write risk assessments for outdoor events, and when ever there is an incident if it is,nt mechanical failure it is almost always because operators get lax in there approach to what they are doing, that does'nt mean that they don't know what they are doing , more over they get used to working with the risks to a point where they don't think about what they are doing.   The items that have been suggested for changing the procedure would make up about a half of a risk assessment for starting and operating an IC powered model .   I could write a generic risk assement if it is felt one is needed , the evidence shows that it might be, all common sense stuff , any suggestions?   all the best Bob hope you heal up quick John

I havent started mine yet its still in the cupboard , to be honest I can't get anywhere near it at the moment.

Hi Phil your definately in the right place to learn , if you can't find out how to build from this site with the skill and expertise base connected , you 'll never find out anywhere I wish this site were around when I started building 32 years ago I'd be good at it by now! all the best John