Guvnor

"wonder where he went to land again? " That was runway 10 - He then landed on 16 and took off again from 16 later. Very carefully...

Posted by Steve J on 19/04/2017 10:21:54: From the DfT consultation document that very few people seem to have bothered to read - 1.1 A drone is an unmanned aircraft, normally flown by a pilot from a distance, using a remote control station that communicates instructions to the drone. Drones are also known as Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems (RPAS) or Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS). Those using drones are referred to as drone users, operators or pilots. 5.2 The CAA has recently revamped its Dronecode to better communicate the rules to users and launched a new drone safety website – www.dronesafe.uk – to make the guidance more accessible to the everyday leisure drone user and the public. The CAA is also using the opportunity to re-engage with manufacturers and vendors to ask that they include the Dronecode in drone packaging or hand it out when it is sold. However, whilst many major vendors and manufacturers do so or point towards it online, it is not compulsory to do so, so some do not. Equally, it is not clear how many of those who receive the Dronecode actually read and digest it. They may therefore not be aware of their responsibilities when flying drones, which could be leading to safety, security or privacy incidents. 5.3 Given this, the Government is seeking input in this consultation as to how this situation could be addressed, to improve current guidance and education for users and thereby reduce incident numbers. 5.7 There are options for further developing the CAA’s safety awareness campaign to improve it, such as potentially working with manufacturers to create a ‘Dronecode approval mark’ if the Dronecode is being issued by this manufacturer or vendor. 5.8 However, the Government is also open to exploring options at a national and EU level to mandate the inclusion of official guidance on safe flying with drones sold in the UK. This approach would put a burden on manufacturers and/or sellers to ensure that their production and logistics processes include issuing the official guidance, but it would ensure that drone buyers in the UK are exposed to this safe flying guidance. Steve And thereby hangs the problem! Any mention there of traditional model flying???

Posted by MattyB on 19/04/2017 10:18:53: What the BMFA cannot afford to do is wash their hands of drones/multirotors in a futile attempt to "save" model flying. Why? Because if they do they will lose credibility with the authorities they are negotiating with. EASA know very well that currently multirotors and drones are governed identically to traditional model aircraft, so the BMFA must maintain an inclusive stance to all forms of SUAS or risk losing their influence at the table. In that case the average BMFA member had better brace itself for a bumpy ride. The costs, the administration and the hassle involved with the influx of tens (hundreds?) of thousands of new members will destroy the BMFA as we know it....

Posted by John F on 19/04/2017 09:46:48: With respect; firstly drones are any model aircraft: The BMFA specifically refers to what you see as a "drone" as Multi Rotor aircraft: **LINK** The CAA also refers to any model aircraft as a drone, RPAS or UAV. By stating that MR fliers are not interested in flying is tarring a lot of people with one huge brush! We have several members at our club who fly MR's, just to fly or race them, and many fixed wing fliers also fly with cameras. The BMFA govern all model flying. Please check out the BMFA website. There is no difference to what is being flown as the rules are all the same for all model flying. The CAA may refer to our aircraft as 'drones' but talk to the CAA people and they know the difference. Some are BMFA members... There are obvously a number of BMFA members who fly MR. I'd contend that the vast maority of the tens of thousands of 'drone' flyers in the UK have zero interest in model flying...

Posted by David Mellor on 19/04/2017 09:44:42: Personally, therefore, I think whatever problems some of us perceive here in the UK regarding MR drones are set to get worse, not better simply because the numbers look so big and continue to grow. It is a bit like looking at a falling barometer and pretending that the weather might not deteriorate! Go and talk to any drone retailer in the UK how sales are going... You'll find that most jumped on the bandwagon a couple of years ago. Most of the ones I know had a year of good sales. As for the last 12 months. Not so good. 'Cliffs', 'edges' and 'over' mentioned a lot...

Posted by David Mellor on 18/04/2017 19:40:27: The first point is the size of the drone market. Worldwide, annual sales of drones are in the many millions of units. It isn't known how many are sold annually in the UK - you'd have to guess (I'd guess 100,000 plus). The second point is that annual global drone numbers are rising very steeply indeed. Drones are increasingly seen as big business, with global annual sales worth around 5 billion dollars. Contrary to what you might expect, only one of the 4 biggest drone manufacturers is Chinese (DJI), the others are French (Parrot) and American (3-D robotics and PrecisionHawk). Of those, DJI has a market value in excess of 10 billion dollars. All four are significant buyers from big chip manufacturers Ambarella, NVIDIA, Intel and Qualcomm. Also contrary to what you might expect, market data indicates that the hobby-drone "action camera" is not a growth area and may even have peaked (despite its apparent popularity in the UK). Your information is out of date. Drone numbers are increasing, but how you can say 'very steeply' is a mystery, seeing as no drone manufacturer I know would ever release sales figures. Your guess of 100,000 units a year in the UK is precisely that - a guess. If you must quote figures, do some research to get accurate ones. Are you counting kids indoor toys? DJI Phantoms? Useless information is worse than none. DJI are the biggest manufacturer of consumer camera drones. As for the others... Parrot - 150 engineers redundant, now concentrating on commercial and military applications. 3DR - Very publically dropped the Solo and getting out of the market, concentrating on commercial and military applications. Precision Hawk - They don't and never have made drones for consumers... And you completely missed out DJI's main competitor. Yuneec - just made half it's engineers redundant and concentrating on commercial and military applications. Intel OWN half of Yuneec, and still can't make it work. The clue here is that DJI have the market wrapped up and the rest are getting out. Why? The consumer market has hit saturation and is now slowly falling. The peak was probably a year ago... Just go and look at the number of Kickstarter drones which have failed in the last 12 months - Zano, Lily etc... As for the pro market, the UK now has around 2K licenced flyers. This market is saturated too. Training schools scrabbling for customers. One of the biggest schools gone under (EuroUSC). Far from being an increasing problem, I'd suggest the problem will slowly diminish over the years... Edited By Guvnor on 19/04/2017 09:22:28

Posted by John F on 19/04/2017 08:49:33: ALL model aircraft are "drones". What you are referring to are Multi Rotor aircraft (MR). People have been killed by fixed wing model aircraft quite a few times over the years, sadly. Someone being killed by a MR will not change the balance. Why is there no room in the BMFA and within our hobby for multi rotor aircraft? No, all model aircraft are NOT 'drones'! This is the issue. Model aircraft are flown by TOTALLY different people to the average drone flyer. Most drone flyers are members of the public who want to get a camera in the air, with NO interest in the flying bit. Suggesting they go off and expore a model aircraft flying site is bizzare - it won't happen. If the BMFA end up 'governing' drones or MR if you prefer, then the balance will change dramtically in the case of the inevitable accident. Any links with our hobby will bring legislation down on us too. I really can't see how the BMFA, which 'governs' 30K model flyers can suddenly take responsibility for hundreds of thousands of drone flyers who have no interest in our hobby. They need their OWN governing body!

Posted by David Mellor on 18/04/2017 22:34:54: The BMFA is doing an excellent job, but is clearly (in my view) struggling to keep up with, let alone govern, the rapid changes in technology that have spawned cheap and widely available drones. The BMFA negotiates with the CAA to define the limitations within which all model aircraft (including drones) are flown in the UK. If the BMFA begins to lose significant governance of drones, then it will find itself in a weaker position in subsequent negotiations with the CAA. For its part, the CAA appears to be coming under greater pressure to tighten regulation of drones. That the BMFA may become weaker in its ability to govern drones in UK airspace makes it all the more likely that the CAA will have no choice but to increase regulation. Which may affect us all, as indeed it is already set to do in other countries. Clearly it is not going to lead to a good outcome for model flying in the UK if these trends (i.e. if the BMFA were to progressively lose governance over drones and if the CAA were to come under pressure to further regulate them) were to develop. Sorry, but you really are heading up the wrong tree here. The CAA aren't stupid. The CAA know the difference between a drone and a model aeroplane. The CAA have stated to people I know that they are 'not interested in what BMFA members do, and are quite happy with what BMFA members do'. They understand what is happening with the drone epidemic and they understand that it has nothing to do with the BMFA. The BMFA should keep drones at arms length, and let the CAA and the Police do any 'governing' required. Why on earth should the BMFA have anything to do with this market. THe first major accident or fatality will instantly tar ALL model flyers with the 'drone' brush. Sorry David but I believe your proposal can only lead to more problems, not less...

Posted by David Mellor on 18/04/2017 15:20:27: No, the BMFA is not doing its bit. It is currently failing to put a simple piece of paper into the hands of ready-to-fly MR drone purchasers at the point-of-sale. In the analogy with smoking, the BMFA is failing to see the wisdom of having "Smoking Kills" printed on cigarette packages. Information provided at the point-of-sale works to change behaviours. Not providing information at the point-of-sale reinforces the idea that it is OK to do what you want with the product. Sorry but it's not the BMFA's job to do this. The costs could be astronomical, and I see no reason why the BMFA membership should pay for it. Can I suggest you try and put some real costs together for this before you go any further. Then divide it by the number of members. I think you might be shocked...

Posted by David Mellor on 18/04/2017 14:35:46: Q. What about retailers? A. All should be contacted. It costs them nothing and most would comply if the material is supplied free So who IS going to pay for it? Why should BMFA members effectively subsideise the termially stupid who choose to fly a drone where they shouldn't? The admin, printing and distrubution costs of this would not be cheap...

1) Do you seriously think the CAA have got the time, the money, the staff, or the will to start 'licensing'retailers? 2) What do you propose doing about the people who a) build their own drone or b) buy from abroad...?? Is it April 1st still...??

And this will have zero effect on Ripmax. Little of what they distribute crosses with HH products. And Futaba is almost as moribund as JR...

Posted by DIGGER on 16/04/2017 05:23:12: I am sorry but I think we should give them a chance , we know the real reason for HH to move out of the UK, after Brexit they are uncertain what's going to happen, Sorry, but this was planned way before Brxit... This is about one thing, cold hard money. Or the lack of it...

Posted by Denis Watkins on 12/04/2017 11:49:11: Geoff is very knowledgeable and passionate about the hobby Govnor And he makes it clear where his preferences lay I prefer his style as there is no " sitting on the fence" or ambiguity from the post Sorry, it's totally ambiguous to me...

Posted by Geoff Sleath on 12/04/2017 11:30:37: Though it makes me glad I never got into helicopters Geoff What a daft comment

Money can be the only real reason HH have backed out of the UK (and France). I doubt the small helis are selling much now, and they've probably saturated the market in ARTFs... In the US, Hobbico aren't in the finest fettle, with TV reports of workers being refued their money from corportat saving schemes. The appear to have run out of money and ideas. HH are out of the UK now. It'll be fun to see what happens next.

I did the same LAST Sunday. Arrived Wednesday morning, free postage!

And now the DX20 has been recalled...

If closing the offices, warehouse, and service centre, and making all the staff redundant isn't a 'withdrawal', what is it...?!

Posted by MattyB on 19/03/2017 11:46:07: Posted by Guvnor on 19/03/2017 00:08:52: There's one other thing. HH will in future only be selling through a selected group of 'premier' dealers. The rest will not be able to sell HH products... Who the chosen elite are nobody knows yet... What is the source of this rumour Guvnor? Sounds like a Hari kari strategy to me if it is true, hence my slight scepticism... The source is one of the shops who hopes to be in the 'premiere league'.

There's one other thing. HH will in future only be selling through a selected group of 'premier' dealers. The rest will not be able to sell HH products... Who the chosen elite are nobody knows yet...

Posted by Peter Miller on 18/03/2017 08:52:04: Posted by tigerman on 18/03/2017 08:39:17: I do not have to post it of to Germany I can post it of to North London to be repaired!!!!!!!!!!!! If you look at the thread and the Horizon website you will see that you post it to Harlow which is in Essex. Peter. It's Germany. HH UK closes down next week...

Posted by kevin b on 17/03/2017 19:48:56: If there is only one person dealing with futaba radio faults and he has time to converse with the customers, does that say anything about the product ? Yes. It says that hardly anyone buys Futaba. ALL radios have faults. Spektrum undoubtedly have more faults, but they will, there must be ten times the number sold as all the other makes put together....

Posted by Erfolg on 17/03/2017 10:48:33: Would I be reasonable in thinking that HH will still retain a sales and distribution team in the UK? It's a reasonable thought, but no, everything is moving to Germany... Forget any soothing words. This is about hard cold money...     Edited By Guvnor on 17/03/2017 11:03:29 Edited By Guvnor on 17/03/2017 11:04:18

They haven't actually 'announced' it... But all staff have had redundancy notices. I think they close end of March...