Steve W-O Sorry, I did have a look at the KK multicopter board but for the sort of thing I'm really interested in it seemed a bit big. It might be a good way to try some experiments though. Any idea what one weighs ? Something that also concerned me a little was the Murata gyros on the SMD version of the KK as these are prone to beat frequency oscillation problems unless the frequency of all the gyros are sufficiently separated. Murata only make two different versions so at least two will always have frequencies that are close. The problem manifests itself as a large amplitude low frequency oscillation at the gyro output which is very difficult / impossible to remove. And a heads up I noticed a warning on http://www.kkmulticopter.com/ that some of the boards being sold on e-bay are rejects that have failed QC. ErfolgThere is a similar video for the UMX Beast biplane with a "with and without gyro" sequence, it could have been staged but there appeared to be a noticable difference. I had a Veron Tru-Flite kit of a Cosmic Wind (about 16" span from memory) when I was a lad that I always fancied putting r/c into, not possible then but it might be possible now, and I suspect I will need all the electronic aids I can get in that one. Having looked at the GeeBee video again I'm wondering if they may be doing something more sophisticated with their controller than simply using the gyros as a damper.