[Wildflecken]

Post some pictures of the kit content and your build. It will certainly interest me.

I have only heard of the model, I guess it is similar to the "Clean Machine" and the "Bird of Time" (the BOT).

Look foreword to your build (you are not going to put it on top of the wardrobe are you? and periodicly druel over the box).

Regards

Erfolg  

[Engine equivalent]

Electric power is now most effective, will power your model just as well if not better than an IC motor.

If you are concerned about cost, seriously consider the budget suppliers.

 A 2200 mah batery being operated at 20c as a 3s will give about +200 watts. If the model is kept to about 1kg, the performance will be vertical, at about 2kg it will still give many IC motor airframe combinations a run for there money. There are many 200w motors, Thumpers, Scorpion, HET in the £20-30 range. Budget contollers range from £15-25, Robotbirds, Tornado, TowerPro etc, the batery about £30.

For approx. £70, you can have a power system that is as effective as an IC, yet can be operated at any time without the noise upsetting the comunity.

Go for it, give yourself a treat. 

Erfolg

[SAFETY]

Lord Lucan

Your words are what I call getting things into perspective.

It is worth noting that at the speeds we all fly at there is no aerodynamic advantage from a needle point nose. Contrary to our perceived expectations this shape of nose will tend to generate (be the source of) substantial turbulence in any yaw type situation.

I think we do need to recognise as you imply that mass and velocity are the fundamental units in determining the energy or momentum. The shape is important in how the force is transmitted. To that end a uncovered crankshaft end, with retaining nut, is of as much concern as a spinner.

How about that propeller, should it be nylon, carbon fibre or wood?

Spinnered off

Erfolg 

[A couple of questions]

I have generally had no problems getting a plane to fly from the slope, with the right wind speed for that slope (steep or gradual).

When the lift is low and running parallel to the slope, all turns are away from the slope, the figure of eight previously mentioned. Sometimes you can push straight out from the slope and the model just keps going upwards, the distance out can seem incredible (to novices like me).

It is the landing that I find can be quite a challenge.

Best of luck

Erfolg

[What are/were your 3 favourite models so far this year?]

This is my first kit, for about 30 years, an ARTF, which has taken me abour 3 months. It is a Fantastic Models R1 Gee Bee.

I normally either design my own or build from plans. As a plan (all electric) I would like

a) Dornier Pheil

b) An pattern type aircraft

c) An oldie conversion like Keilcraft Spectre, Nobler, Thunderbird

Regards

Erfolg

[The neighbours are complaining]

I find the discussion of propeller noise interesting.

I fly electric, the most powerful motor I use on a reregular basis is drawing 350w, the revs/min is some 10,000. The noise is from everything is that of a fan room heater. It is almost silent.

I have noticed that flying wings, using 480 motor running as pushers are noticably noiser than those runinning as tractors, I assume it is the masking effect of the wing, loading and reloading the propeller. 

The motor must be the equivalent to a 0.30 ts, ic. The revs are lower 2,000 ish. I do wonder what makes an ic propeller so noisey.

Questioning

Erfolg

[futaba interference]

Is there not a fault with the transmitter or receiver?

There must be thousands of this model Futaba in the UK, not heard of any widespread problem?

Although I have heard people complain of interference from other sets, JR, Multiplex, I find this hard to believe, as I would hope that in this day and age, reputable sets do not swamp other frequencies. In the past we blamed CB radio.

This Rubber Duck, signing off 

Erfolg

[Servo fitting]

Most gliders I have seen or built, are in multiple sections. Each section joined to the other by a dowel system. This can be a rod (often Piano wire), a tube (Aluminium), Composite (Pultrusion) or Flat bar. There well could be others.

To keep the wings together many systems are used. Tape around the joint, Stretched elastic bands (with cup hooks), cam locks or just plain old fashioned friction.

I have some wings of half span 72", which take some transporting, are difficult to store, even assembly is not without hazard. I would not want to make your wing a single entetity unless realy pushed.

Regards

Erfolg

[Servo Arms]

Grant

Thank you for your very generous offer. I will gracoiusly decline, as you may need them yourself.

However, this very morning I spoke to Robitbirds (Andy), explained my stupidity. He is sending me some as replacements. I will have to buy more things from them (and make sure they add the arms to the bill).

Due to their excellent service, keen prices and excellent goods, I do as much mail order through them as possible. After all, I carelessly lost my local model shop, I certainly do not want to loose my E-Retailer.

Thanks again Grant for your offer.

Best Regards

Erfolg

[The neighbours are complaining]

Most of us (when I used smelly, inconvienant, noisy) glow motors, would run the motor for a maximum of 5 minutes at a time. Surely your neighbours have no trouble with this!

The suggestion that the airframe is the cause will have some truth (I think most is still the engine). Engineering type solutions to resonation, is to alter the frequency of body.  Fill with foam, add additional bracing, change the covering, remove some of the bracing, change the shape (alters frequency), alter the input frequency (the motor mount idea). The amplitude of the input effects the movement in the body rather than if it resonates (enough energy and destruction will be assured).

As an aside all bodies resonate, it is the frequency that this occurs, which most seek to control (with the amplitude doing the damage).

Erfolg

[DSC00051.JPG]

Looks suitably weather beaten, that Welsh mountain air wrecks the complexion. Does he sing as he looks? Erfolg

[Servo Arms]

I seem to have suffered another senior moment. What with all the safety kafuffle

I cannot find my servo arms for my Tower SG 50s. I have more servo arms than you can shake a stick at. Yet not one fits.

Now my local model shop has closed, I cannot go easily go there to find out if they are usually stocked. Does any one know how or where these things can be obtained.

I have nearly finished my fantastic Gee Bee as Myron would say. A servo arm, a servo arm a flight for a servo arm. It to will be posted on the Pictures section, Myron.

This thing is now blocking my electrocution of the Algebra project. 

Feeling Old

Erfolg

[SAFETY]

I would always advocate a measure of care, towards yourself, club members, the public as a whole, in addition to the environment.

What I am finding objectionable, is the increasing number of people and individuals, who know what is best for others and seek a measure of control. Unfortunately there objectives are often couched under the safety flag. If you "do not do this", or "take that action" your are socially irresponsible, appears to be a favoured tactic.

There is very little sense of balance in some parts of British society at present. Yes we must be responsible, risk cannot be eliminated, other than ceasing the activity.

A foreign relative who was visiting this country recently found it unbelievable the chaos on our roads, with miles of traffic cones, limited contractor activity. I told him it was for safety reasons. His reply was "safe working is not necessarily efficient" but "poor safety is inefficient" and you guys have managed both.  

Yes, I believe in safety, but we all need to balance risks, benefits and safety .

Erfolg

[Engine equivalent]

I would contact Overlander, and ask about their "Thumper Range" of motors.

I have seen their base motor (circa £20) power a "Spacewalker" must be in the +50" span, most effectively. This range is extensive and at low cost.

I agree also with Robotbirds and BRC, all sell good motors at reasonable cost.

AXI are amonst the best (suitably priced), but do you need the best? There are many very good budget motors, but I guess some dogs.

The battery is also very important, you need to consider this after defining the motor. I would go LIPO anf forget scare stories. But operate conservatively.

Regards

Erfolg

[SAFETY]

Wolf

I think that measured and proportionate action to reduce risk is precisely what Timbo is talking about. 

I will add cost.The legislation that controls motor vehicles is designed in such a way that, individuals pick up the cost, not large well represented groups. I am sure that this is the reason that regulations which could improve pedestrian safety are not introduced. A significant number of accidents occur with public transport in limited access, central/pedestrianised areas, which involve public service vehicles. Buses and trams could be regulated to less than 10-20mph, in these areas. There overall shapes are not pedestrian friendly. Yet government does nothing.

It is possible to cite many other instances, where much could be done, but is this the forum.I find it curious that Autobahns are safer than Motorways. Yet "safety people" will stand on their heads rather than acknowledge this fact. Safety is often driven by a set prejudices, as by fact. Reports are re-drafted until the right conclusion (balance) is reached.

By and large most model flying does not included the public. The public often has to or accepts risks from others (commercial aircaft, nuclear incidents, chemical spillages, transport). Yet the risk we present from a historical perspective is very small. That is why any incident involving model aircraft is noteworthy and may be reported in the national press. Any reduction we can reasonably achieve will probably have no stastistical impact on the number of unfortunate incidents.

Yet, I would argue that we are all responsible in limiting risk to ourselves and others. We should and do need "good practice guidance", but from balanced opinion. Definatly not from "Safety Warriors"

I to have been a cyclist, club member, competitor (now only cycle to the shops). I have been hit by a car pre rounded edges, I survived. Two acquaintances of mine, hit by buses did not.

Please lets keep things in perspective.

If the present commom sence balance is discarded in favour of safety committees and advisors we will need.

a) Safety cloothing (approved) to fuel and operate models

b) A predefined operating plan, in accordance with safety procedures, signed of by safety advisor

c) All people and equipment not directly involved in the operation of the model, removed to a defined safe distance.

d) A flight line clearly defined by a visible and preferably physical barrier, with safety approval certificate

e) Inspection of model, equipment and certification to verify compliance with safety bye laws, by an independant suitably qualified person

f) This list would be endless when written by "Safety Centred" individuals

A  suggestion to all you guys who see me and others like me as threat, go set up your own club, lecture, write procedures, undertake safety audits, safety inspections for each other and maybe fly?

Regards

Erfolg 

[Painting "ALBERT"]

I have fuel proofed using Polyurethane. Ronseal (thinned with white spirit) works well sprayed (use my cheap badger, would not risk a proper airbrush), with a number of thin coats. What seems as good is Wickes fast drying Polyurethane (water based), dry as soon as it hits the surface (well almost).

I have also used epoxy resin (not sprayed, as I was told it is leathal).

One of the best finishes I have had recently was obtained using Pelikan Ink sprayed. FW Acrylics also sprays well. I have then glassed clothed over the finish, works well.

For scale, I would stick with Humbrol. Sprayed it really goes a long way. Again I would spray polyurethane over the top (if nasty fuel is involved, particularly nito). Amylnitrate (chemist gave a funny look the last time I asked for some, then said he would have to add it to the ether himself) does nothing good to some finishes either, but you do not use diesels do you? 

I am never sure how serious you are, when you hint at using the equivalent of Valspar or Snowcem. But I would stir clear of them, they generally weigh to much, although I guess Snowcem would turbulate the wing effectively.

Erfolg der maler

[The Dauntless build]

Myron

I have looked for the fabled Albert on this site, cannot find him.

Is he as real as "Puff the Magic Dragon"

Expectant

Erfolg

[Blue, Pink or Rainbow Foam]

Jetsome

I collected.

They do deliver, although one sheet may cost more in delivery charges than for the foam.

Sheffield insulation appear to have sites all around the UK.

Just be talking to another modeller, who told me that Sheffield are the only people to carry the stuff as stock.

I have just run out of the foam I was using, think it was called "Rohrcell". It was firmer than Blue Foam, would take resin etc.

I now have to find or be told of the limitations of Blue Foam. Can I cyno, dope it for finishing?

Regards

Erfolg

[Lipo prices]

Timbo

I certainly agree there are differences between Lipos.

The question for me, what are the differences.

Are the differences substantial and important.

Yes there will be people trying to sell, poorer products, as a quality which only the label aspires to. I think primarily this occurs when the manufacturers( as apposed to assemblers) increase the performance of their products. A new standard is set. The old product is then often difficult to sell on. Small assemblers may be tempted to buy this product, at a discount and sell on with an inflated performance potential, printed on the label.

Yet there are companies in the far east, who are striving to establish there own brand products, that compare well with some of the European/USA brand names, at a fraction of the cost. They often have far better links and working relationships with the cell producers, who are often established in the same region 

How do we tell one from another. Well, site like this, the flying field, club meetings, some retailers (who are trusted), where experiences are exchanged.  In short collective knowledge and experiences.

I have seen expensive cells puffed up, with sad owners and happy bunnies with El Cheapo Lipos. Sometimes it is what has happened to the Lipo that is as important as who made it.

An Opinionated

Erfolg

[Blue, Pink or Rainbow Foam]

I now have my blue foam

From Sheffield Insulation (Trafford Park, Manchester) 

Dow Corning Floormate X200

50mm, 8*4 feet

Cost? £11.20

Thanks for all your help and guidance

A Happy

Erfolg

[The Dauntless build]

Flanker

I thought you were having a laugh.

I like the crew, they have character.

Grahamd

I was disapointed this morning, I thought you would have finished the construction phase by now. You have had plenty of time for painting. So where are the aerial shots?

It is at least a day from your last posting!

Erfolg

[Lipo prices]

This thread ties neatly with a parallel thread regarding charging/balancing plug configuration.

Your general observations on cell performance, fit nicely with my general hopes. That the difference between brands, would possibly be not worth fighting over (although I am sure some would).It seems that the balancing plugs are the final defence, of some of the big brand names.

Regards

Erfolg

[Algebra]

Bob

I have seriously considered making tailplanes at 10%.

You may ask why not 15% for greater stability. Well, the original set up was pretty near perfect. With such a long moment arm, excessive weight at the rear requires a lot of lead at the front. Which I would like to avoid.

Thanks for the interest.

Regards

Erfolg

[SAFETY]

Timbo

I certainly agree you regarding large vehicles. My daughter when working in A&E (during her training), said that any collision with a bus or (truck) by a pedestrian, was almost certainly a death (even at low speed).

You have a point on the flight line, there can be improvements.

I think we should consider how and when do people have accidents. Are the occurrence of accidents sufficient to really worry? Are the accidents totally unique  to the operation of model aircraft. I suspect compared to other activities, riding horses, hill walking, golfing, that model aircraft operation compares favourably in the low risk category.

However we should not be reckless, and continue to consider what we do. Whilst keeping things in proportion and balanced (risk to benefit).

Some will demand the elimination of all accidents. I believe this is impossible. Many industries and government routinely decided if measures should be taken by determining the cost of improvement against the frequency of event. This is done on a daily basis, it is not done only for extraordinary events.

I have also noted that some of the worst offenders are the first to point a finger of blame at others.

Regards

Erfolg

 

[Edmonds Model Products]

Does any one know a postal or E-Mail address for Edmonds Model Products, otherwise known as EMP.

It seems hard to imagine that such a prodigous manufacturer can disappear.

Perhaps Sean Bannister (I understand), the designer of some of EMP products.

Regards

Erfolg