Erfolg

Many thanks for all your contributions. Many of the references that you have found, alluded me. I found references that alluded to at least some of the definitive references many of you found, although no links or specific resources were provided. Very well done and many thanks. The story has moved on since then. I managed to get another modeller to have a go with the model( I perhaps should explained it is a second hand model, that belonged to a departed club member). We both accepted what ever happened for the worse, was one of those things. Things did not go as well as I had hoped, but not anywhere as bad as they could. The model took of OK, but continued to climb, no amount of down trim or full down stick input stopped the problem. Luckily due to a strong head wind, with model on low power and or shut off motor, the model landed at the end of the strip. It was found that the grub screw gripping the thin wire, was not. Luck had it, that a kink in the wire limited how far the wire could move. The screw was tightened further, this time on take of the model was not pleasant to fly. At this point the model was taken home. A proper examination indicated that there was a false elevator neutral. further examination indicated that the issue was/is related to the tube and wire. After getting out a "snake", after a lot of consideration, I decided that it was a better bet than as the installed system, yet hmm, not great. A nights sleep, i decided that a rear servo, short push rod would be better still. That is where I am at. The model initially had a problem in that a wind servo mounting had come loose, allowing the servo to move substantially. I installed an additional, thicker Ply mounting face. The model also had elevator issues. Which I thought I had solved using a new Metal Geared servo. I was wrong. I know that the Wot4e flies well, as I see so many, well behaved, models that others commit to the vagaries of all weathers. I will get there.

For the moment I am setting the CG at 70mm, as it appears that this is pretty much the accepted starting point, that the manuals 60mm was a very safe location. I am even thinking that the comment that the model could re-kit itself, was due to a very far forward CG, that made the model difficult to handle, in anything but very favourable conditions. A quick calc indicates that 25% is at 63.5mm, that (my often normal except on scale, often small tail plane areas) of 30%, is at 76.2. Where as on line CG calculator indicates that 55.372 is easy handling and at 81mm a very responsive model. I am particularly nervous due to my short time of ownership has been fraught with incidents. From a aileron servo detaching from the ply plate (the servo was not the original it seems) and the elevator failing to respond. How much is a result of my own actions, after a check out, is another matter.

I have continued my search for a definitive CG position for the Wot4-E foamy. I came across a RCM&E recommendation by the Servo shop which suggested that the CG should be between 80-85mm. Of course I moved on and can no longer find the reference. I am not quite sure that we are talking about the same version, as there are so many Wot4s variants. I have also come across some that (could be many) suggesting that 80mm is correct. One that suggested that any further back than 60mm results in re-kitting. With so many successfully flying, there being so many variants, I do not know where a reasonable, starting position should or could be. I am reluctant to set at 60mm as a very forward position can result in a model that needs a lot of up, more importantly if in a dive, or anything, the model tends to want to keep on doing what it is doing. Then snapping into its new inputted heading (eventually). Please offer your own experiences, as there are so many Wot4s out there.

I am just finishing repairs on my Wot4E foamy after an incident. I am stumped with respect to the CG position. The wing has a number of lines drawn on it presumably indicating where the CG could be. Trying to establish what a viable CG position is, where re-kitting is not the result, I found references to a number of positions, ranging from 60mm, then 70mm and 80-85mm. Can they all be optimal. In short, what are forum members set at?

As so many, I am a granddad, I have been one for some 18 years now. As time has gone by their demands have increased, increasingly with respect to time. Since Covid opportunities to go flying have decreased, more recently due to weather. With rain or high wind. Saturday was one such day, baby sitting two of them, whilst the younger was attending/competing at a hockey tournament over two days. For Sunday I stamped my little feet, went all petulant. I guess this is familiar to others. The new, or reconstructed road, has been opened on the last day of July as promised. The alternative road has now been closed. The new road is really nice, on that basis I arrived at the club site in a good mood. Strangely the car park was unusually pretty full. Approaching the flight line I discover that there is a BMFA Scale event taking place. Hmm, if I get a flight, I will be lucky. Those present were not convinced however much squinting that my trainer type is a very stand off scale Piper Club. I sat down with others, barracking our cub members taking part. I quite enjoyed the process, I am not sure that the recipients felt the same. Makes a change to be the centre of the joking. It was pretty apparent what was not perfect with some of the competitors, although I would not even achieve the standard that they were achieving. There was an adjournment for lunch of 30 minutes. During this time I had my flight. That was before the hooligans, zipped about the sky with their missiles. The comp restarted, as before drizzle set in, I went home, thinking I now go to the field for a chat as much as flying, a social event as much flying these days. Imagine that the RCM&E editors comments this month runs a similar theme. I went home happy, at least I got out, had a flight, shot the breeze with other old, old, grumpy old men. I now await a few days of good weather, although I will be a dog minder for the next 2 weeks (the dog is to sensitive for the kennels, plus I am cheaper). I have a number of models that need flying/testing. OAPs have nowt to do these days, it seems I am being saved from boredom

No pictures, separately, a Catalina, then a DH Vampire/Venom have over flown our house. Must be an air show near by.

I am a little surprised at some of the numbers being banded about. I am left with an impression that the position of some is of anti anything but electricity. Some of the figures I do not recognise as any thing but wishful thinking and very selective cherry picking. There are reasons why electric power costs approx. twice that of gas, per unit. Recognise there are a number of subsidies that green energy already receives. It is not profit gauging, that some instinctively blame, it is the nature of electric power generation. Who remembers that electric power would become so cheap, it would not be worth charging. It is not the consequence of being anti-electric. Much of my life has either been in the Electric industry or close to it. I was trained by a now extinct company, Metro-Vicks (once Westinghouse)/AEI, asset stripped (with the aid of a party that you would not expect). Whilst working in the Transformer division (Heavy Power). They made transformers the size of a detached house (two semis), the best losses were approx. 85%, closer to 80%. This just one in a system containing many in one line. The cooling requirements of the transformer oil reflects the losses. There is a lot of oil to get rid of, at some point. Never mind Aracol in vacing down etc. Working for BICC, they made Sub sea cable, oil and oil filled cables. This division closed when it was no longer viable, as the losses from sub sea cables were so great, that other than making use distant generation, it did not make economic sense, demand was low, and future demand would not recover, it has now 60 years latter. Oil filled and gas filled cables cost a lot to make and the infrastructures of pressuring and cooling are in themselves are losses. With overheads, the noise, or walking past at night with a fluorescent tube (the flickering) represent losses. In the past that is why power stations were close to the point of use. Wind turbines hundred of miles from the user, are not good news, from a loss point of view. Perhaps top of city/town buildings is a better location (other than noise). If we move to switch gear (Switch Gear Division), Oil filled brakers are a source of oil, that does and will require disposal. In the case of SF6 brakers, the is or was question marks surrounding the gas. Air brakers were seen as ant-social due to incredible noise from the compressed air blast (you need to experience them at work). My experience suggest that the 95% efficiency is some what out of touch with the real world. I have just run threw a limited number of issues, there are many more. Yet who would argue that electric lighting is far better and probably safer than the old gas lighting in houses and street lighting etc. Horses for courses.

As Majorca found, taxing just stops the ships visiting. Taxing for the sake of taxing, ultimately results in things not happening, no wonder that some Governments run out of money, taxing for dubious reasons ends up with us going back in time, at the ultimate even armies and civilisation fails.

I continue to find it difficult to understand how those who have reservations with respect to electric power, as the situation is today are considered to anti electric. In most cases they are simply stating facts as they see them. The first is that unit cost of electricity today is approximately twice of gas. With respect to oil fuel, without various taxes, the situation is worse. An increased use of electricity, requires greater generation capacity, along with a significant re-enforced distribution system. The cost of developing the grid will be massive, some estimates suggest that these costs will dwarf those of generation. Then the fact that the wind is unpredictable, this means that some other form of generation will be required to fill the variability. Nuclear power is better suited to base load generation. It is not great at ramping up and down fast. Many ideas put forward are fixes, rather than viable predictable low cost solutions. With respect to EVs, for vehicle type/class they are measurably heavier than their IC equivalent. Increased tyre wear is not a figment of the imagination. The extra cost at present is a real issue for many. Without tax advantages for business an various subsidies, many are dissuaded from first time purchase. To many are upset that provided on street charging comes at high costs. Some think that the cost should be capped, yet demand that more is made available. Without subsidies this reflects true commercial cost. At some point the revenue presently paid by IC cars have to be recouped. It would be unfair to expect all tax payers to fill the gap. It would not be unreasonable to look at EVs to pay. It seems that the London road charges will be extended to EVs next year. It seems that many jobs in the UK auto industry will go, as things stand. Like it or not, Oil will be required for many years, for lubricants, polymers, and for other uses that do come to mind immediately. The social consequences will almost certainly make the collapse of the coal and steel ( both in the UK an Europe)industry seem minor.

Just keep getting worse😢 Perez's days must be numbered, so distanced from his team mate? This could be the best chance for Verstappen for a fourth title, possibly hamstrung not having a team mate that could hinder the pack. Mercedes appear to be back, as is McLaren. Lewis has probably made a wise decision, for next year, becoming really marketable, having driven for the most charismatic teams of the legendary Silver Bullets and the prancing red horse. I guess we all expect a big shake up of the team hierarchy, next season.

I have just returned from an Italian sojourn, where the weather was everything that the UK isn't, in spite of global warming. Two days before my departure, I went to the field, with a degree of angst. Why, sometime in the past in similar circumstances, I had a fly away, I have also managed to crash a model, that could only be partially retrieved, or was it bits lost? I am not superstitious, these days there is no wood on car dashboards, where is wood look a like, many models are now foam, how can you touch wood? Like many modellers I have a stock of models that need test flying after a rebuild, repair, or a new model. The grass has been water logged for many months, the grass as high as an "elephants eye". The grass had its third cut in as many weeks, although there was some rivulets of grass that had missed the grass box. So how did it go, my new ply bodied Wot4 was flown by me for the first time, after a number of test flights by the best flyer in the club, it was initially very wrong, after the third iteration of various mods. Now it scooted across the strip, into the air and flew as old. It seems my reassembly of the original body and copy was not very good. setting the wing at 0-0 to the tailplane cured all. This is what I normally do anyway, such poor draughtsmanship, lead to a gross error, I should have engaged brain, is this reasonable, the wing set at +10 degrees to tailplane must be wrong. Anyway all is well. I then flew my own design, which is a master class of standard ratios and conformity. Perhaps the second time flow, by me. Just as you would expect, normal, no apparent vices, in fact axial rolling with not a hint of a barrel. Hopefully i will become more acquainted. I then flew my very, very old model, it has been lucky so far. Finally I decided to fly an uprated model, a new more powerful motor. A lot was wrong, one issue was a shortage of power, and poor handling. I will post a little about what the power issue was. All to do with an old Lipo, that appeared to have all the volts you would expect, investigation identified a high internal resistance on one cell. The initial watt draw being 138w, rapidly collapsing to 70 watts, after a second to of closed throttle recovering to about 120w ans so on. A new lipo is now providing +180w for some time. The bee in my bonnet persists our reconstituted link road is still under construction, should he opened in April now June, still no doubt on programme 4 years into the 2 year .................................................... blah blah . In general it went well!

Kevin Where did you purchase, find or did you design the files yourself. If self design, on which design tool and slicer did you use. I recently saw and handled a 3d printed model using one of the specialist PLA materials, it was or is quite a bit flimsy than my models, however am impressed by yours (and the one I have handled).

The present situation where EVs are not paying the appropriate or comparative road fund duty as IC cars is an indicator that the sales of Evs is lower by a sufficient margin that the present Government envisaged at the present time. For UK car manufacturers this matters, as production volumes and the proportion of types of vehicles matter, due to the levies that they presently are expected to pay. The consequences to the UK are potentially enormous, companies are not hinting, production is presently moving to non UK plants. The so what, is really does mean jobs will be lost, many suppliers will cease operations in the UK, investment will not be made in the UK, taxes will not be paid (by the manufacturers and employees). Although many overseas government officials tell us how committed they are to the EV and the environment, their actions do not match the talk. At present EVs are being scrapped by insurance companies, the premiums for EVs reflect this situation. Is it right that they are being scrapped,, until it can be shown that there is no risk, or repairs can be regularly and safely undertaken, that is the real world of pragmatism. It is not anti EVs to recognise that the increased weight (that is considerable), has many detrimental consequences, from tyre wear, road damage, to more than desirable energy use, increased tyre particulate. We all can argue to the cows come home as to how many saints can stand on a pin head, and try to suggest something does not matter. Those who suggest that IC vehicles are subsidising EVs have a point, What is presently true, that EVs or tax payers will have to fund the +£100 Bn, (that is over, above and beyond the cost of repairing and building roads) that IC vehicles pay at present . AS many others I am not anti EVs, I see many issues that the government and others are in denial with.

Who ever wrote the comment regarding Hype is spot on. Some of the claims have to be spurious, a heavy vehicle does not corner as well, when compared to a lighter version of the same model. The reports that EVs are more expensive to ensure and the premiums are increasing that IC cars. You can go through so much more of the promises which have turned out to be hype. Newton told us that fast acceleration comes at an energy cost (F=Ma or a= F/M)) It is not about anti Ev, it is about reality. There are strong indicators that many UK plants will close without Government financial support in some form, as a consequence to the Carbon (UK targets)and EU legislation, trade barriers. We all know of the consequences across Europe of the switch from coal to oil. In some respects steel production similar. At the end of the day, the change will almost certainly cost, jobs, money, and expect to pay, not some one else, or in the long run see lower cost motoring or transport costs in general (particularly public). I have mentioned frequently the increased road damage from heavier EVs, Buses even IC buses inflict far more damage than IC cars. Without motorists, who will actually pay for road repairs.

The elephant in the room is the tax lost from IC cars in particular, at present the total taxes from IC cars from vat, purchase tax, fuel taxes, road fund licence is easily in excess of £28 bn. Sources for specific elements can be found, although th total has so far eluded me. If all cars become electric, this sum will of necessity be recouped from other sources. The hints have started that EVs will be paying more than as at present, you can be sure, that the present IC vehicles will no longer be the source. Who and how will these very large sums be recouped, is coming more to the fore. The references I see to Evs, Flat Lining, is in the context that the sales have flattened, not declined as in being dead, that is not increasing as was postulated. Tesla (as in cars) is a vivid case, in that selling price and share price have declined.

Does the Southport club fly at Woodvale, or somewhere else. Will the Woodvale event ever return?

I do wonder what or why there are so many small Evs available in Italy, although not in the UK. Could it possibly be non compliance or perhaps vested interests. It is obvious from a UK perspective that problems with EVs sale requirements, that the PSA group, openly stating that they will not pay sales tax on IC cars, if the EV sales do not cover potential sales. The IC sales will not happen. A knock on consequence is the viability of the UK manufacturing plants. Apparently new investments are continuing at other non UK locations, by PSA and others. At the same time EV sales are flat lining both here and the rest of the world. You can be certain that similar views and actions will be taking place with respect to the UK for all vehicle sales . A number of EU based manufacturers seem only wishing to sell high cost EVs here. Often to my eyes, the size of tanks (and weights). There have been indications by some, that the UK has or was seen as a way to recover the high cost of Evs, due to, or via, our early adopter strategy. Pushing back by 5 years has reduced the opportunity by the EU to use the UK as the Milch Cow. I did not anticipate the difficulty of Ev batteries would be used as a basis of for increased insurance premiums. So much seems to be the consequence of very fast transition to Electric. It disappoints me that for vehicles that charging arrangements (plugs) is still so variable. Perhaps a single plug type and smart chargers are required. Every day it seems a new battery technologies is announced, last week a battery that charges half the time than existing types and at a much reduced cost (no mention of operating life).

When in Rome there were a lot of small electrics similar to the Silence. I Goggled the various brands, they were all reasonably priced, the country of origin was not immediately obvious, not one was on sale in the UK. The problems for UK EVs seem to be increasing. The speculation with respect to tariffs on Chinese vehicles and batteries. The higher insurance costs due to right offs, where little obvious damage has occurred, Maintenance charges being higher than e solution. expected, greater than IC cars. Reports of very high tyre wear. as low as 10,000miles. The real elephant is the treasury considering how to replace fuel duty, road fund, vat etc . Apparently it is now acknowledged that the 2 ton Evs are increasing road damage and wear, with the utilities that their infrastructure is being damaged at a greater rate, due to, blah, blah. Apparently increased duties on fuel, would be a stealth tax increase, rather than a gap filling It has not been helped by the EU, pushing back and suggestions further push backs on I|C restrictions may be moved back yet another 5 years to 2040.

Monaco is less a race, more about qualification. Felt for Chico, the suggestion that there is and was a reluctance to implement a penalty as the potential offender would almost certainly be suspended, again calls into question the authorities and vested interests, than consistent impartial decisions. As for being bottom.😢

Grumpy, It is the same story wherever you live, all the amenities require substantial supervision, amenities, and a CPA (critical path analysis) with multiple hold points. Just like the joke of how many .......................................... Our upgraded (rebuilt road) has still not opened, still on track, in its 2 year programme, after 4 years, revised to lower scope (deleted spur), County Council time limited part of fund withdrawn, Boris Johnson replacing and supplanting the withdrawn funds, the contribution from a house builder also withdrawn (when the spur was deleted) as the housing limit would not be reached. Now our MP has resigned, due to a event that has made national news (the ironies is that the road would never have reached its current stage without his push) now there is a pending General election. And still no road, yet cycle lane roadworks has further increased difficulties for the locals (mostly for born again holiday cyclists, this aged once upon a time cyclist, cannot believe there behaviour quite often. Ah who has been flying? I made it on Saturday, all by my lonesome. Sunday I could barely get in our car park, the whole of the club was there, so it seemed. For me a good day, my rebuilt Wot 4e (new ply body) has flown successfully for the first time. Just took a new motor, 9g ( metal geared servos). As a precaution I had taken 3 other models (often flown). The sun beat down mercilessly. Went home, went to my daughters for dinner. A really successful no work for me day. Yesterday and today continuous rain with high winds.

I do not know if any one else noticed (watched the highlights again) that both the McLaren and Ferrari following Verstappen exceeded the track limits consistently on one or maybe more corners. I expect that RB will be bringing any observation to the officials notice. We did not want a repeat of a past event where the stewards composition was queried, then being seen as to Anglo Saxon in composition. Are RBs easy wins behind them, if so it did not last as long as the Mercedes dominance. Verstappen needs a better team mate, than his present one, to keep the pursuing hoards at bay, as the unwritten team interest prevailed at Mercedes.

OMG, Every one and their dog is here, clogging the roads, and car parks. Praise the Lord that human beings are averse to walking, if they were not, outside my house would be stacked high with vehicles. I went to the field on Saturday, word had got out, I was the only person present. No bad thing as I was able to fly three models in complete quite, confirming that in general all three no longer had any obvious issues. Flying a glider I was a little disappointed that not a single Buzzard was to be seen. I did work out that about 400 feet there were wide spread thermals that were transient. It was observing the flight patterns of Gulls that educated me. The thermals originated (that I could potentially use) in an adjacent field, where the farmer or his contractor, had killed of the central crop, now brown earth. Returning on Sunday, it was a different story, all of the club must have thought, he will not fly two days consecutively, as the rest of the club were present. I only flew two models. There was a reason, the wind had shifted to the South and grown in strength. At our field I find that this causes problems, as wind shear at both ends generates turbulence. For those models which have an abundance of power, it is of no issue, as they are airborne within a yard or two whilst in the wind shadow (from trees at the rear). For my models with longer take of runs and some others, emerging into the turbulence and wind shear, causes much stirring of the sticks. At present I have seen little visual evidence of wild life, returning after winter. Just the one, house or sand Martin. There is a resident Pheasant (now the farmer has banned the shooting club), that appears on the track. At my previous club, there were hares, lapwings, foxes (that would trot passed, or even sit and watch). in addition to Buzzards, some bird of prey that would consistently sit on telegraph poles or low voltage power lines. I am hoping to see more, as the summer progresses. How to get home was the next priority, as the few roads and lanes around here are packed at weekends with citizens who are abandoning their cities for the sea side. I made my decision, spending the most time inching my way home for the last mile. It was a good day, chatting with other club members, observing their new models, although I do disapprove of those noisy smelly things that some fly. Now the field has been cut twice in as many weeks, my wheeled models can once more be flown, rather than requiring a fling and a prayer.

Ron has pointed out that nothing is new or is being claimed. This is my old contribution, in the good old days of Barcs and 100s, there was at least one kit that used "Blue Foam" for wings, uncovered. It was common practice to use "Christmas type present wrapping Paper", using simple PVA. The arrangement was incredibly strong. I do not remember what was used to protect the paper, there was no WBV back then. Protections was necessary as comps were run even when raining, paper does not like being wet. I had a conventional wing pop (under a monster tow), due to a day of being wet during a comp (it was covered with a plastic sheet), Damp weather in the past could soften PVA. With respect PVA, it seems that in essence it is like saying steel, could be a low carbon, high carbon, or with alloys. PVA know seems to be so broad, that it is difficult to predict how different, under what circumstances. An example is a PVA (D4) I have used (recently)will not be reactivated if heated with a iron, to use to reseal iron on film. In the past basic PVA could be used for the purpose. At present I use Gorilla white (PVA), because I can easily purchase it, not sure it dilutes well, though. Experimentation may be required.

The majority of what we purchase for our models originates from China or the Far East. The retail purchase price in the UK is determined by and large by the retailer needing to make a profit (after all costs), and the Governments taxes (vat, any duties and handling charges). It is not due to the so called subsidies or dumping allegations. The business model of Ali baba and even Amazon, now pays the requisite duty, to the UK (Customs and Excise), any agents in the Far East, whilst cutting out UK middle persons (whoops that should be man). Now we see a substantially lower prise. One of our problems is that we are now a niche hobby, of low numbers. In the mean time I am getting ready a number of my models for tomorrow.

We are all pretty close to each other, unfortunately, there will many changes.😢