Ops!!! If you are wondering why my post is exactly the same has "tigerman ".It is because I am new to this forum and I did not realise when you first post stuff on the thread it is vetted first ( I have no problem with that ,makes sense ) .I thought it had not been posted so I rang my brother and he put it on his thread for me Sorry but I did get my question sorted out thanks Jon I will be ordering the Black Horse 30cc for my Laser 180 has soon as Black Horse has them back in stock