Richard Clark 2

My Solon has served two generations, my father and me, so it's at least 70 years old. It's the 240 Watt one and was made before they painted the handle - it's bare wood with not the tiniest trace of paint and the cord is cotton covered. But it burnt out some years ago and for heavy work such as undercarriages I have been using a couple of old unpowered ones heated on the gas cooker . I recently got fed up with this, as did my wife, and I have recently purchased a 100 Watt Antex 'Lite'. Bit erosion. Temperature control helps but the main reason is the modern lead free solder which is about all you can find in most DIY stores. Not even iron plated/coated bits stand that for long but wiping it thoroughly clean while still hot with wet genuine sponge is good. (Imitation sponge is prone to melt even when wet and lacks the microscopic sharp calcium 'whiskers' of the real stuff.)

Posted by Pauil Ashford on 13/07/2020 15:56:37: I have come up against a problem with the Vintage Models kit of the KK Elmira in that the wire supplied for the wing join is 10 SWG (3.25mm) but the tubing in which it is intended to fit is 8 SWG, not a snug fit! A route around in my spares box produced some 4mm ally tubing that will take the 10 gauge wire with a little persuasion. However I do not have enough for the job so ordered some more from a local supplier (ATM4), on receiving the new stock I found the wall thickness was greater and the 10 gauge wire could not be persuaded to fit. Has anyone out there had this problem and could share their solution please. Thanks, Paul. Better to use 8 SWG wire. 10 is very thin for a model that size.

Posted by Robert Welford on 13/07/2020 09:14:39: Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 13/07/2020 00:29:41:   But I'm not impressed by the new Cockpit. Richard: what are your concerns with the new Cockpit SX 7/9/12? I own a SX9 tx, but have yet to use in anger as I have few other Mpx transmitters in use. If I didn't have an Evo, nothing. Except maybe those 'roller' controls placed at the back so you can't see how they are set. Particularly so as they 'roll' further than the width of the slots they are in. But having both an Evo and a Royal SX (which are basically the same) and having carefully read the manual for all versions of the new Cockpit SX I find it has far less functionality than those. Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 13/07/2020 11:17:53

Posted by David Ramsden on 12/07/2020 23:55:26: Well I guess this thread is drawing to a close now. It's been an education. I've learned a lot about lipos, charger use, and performance monitoring gadgets. And as a small bonus, I got my esc to apply its brake without any trouble at all. Once I had her (my new Kloudrider) trimmed to glide at minimum sink rate I even discovered that it's possible to slope soar without a slope(!). But that's another story... Thank you everyone! David That's real nice

Posted by Peter Miller on 12/07/2020 18:27:18: If I may make a suggestion. Learn to solder it isn't hard. We used to solder all our own tanks up when I was fifteen. I still have my Henly Solon 75 Watt iron that I bought then (1955) it still works. Brian Winch has an article on soldering on the forum **LINK** And I am sure that I have an article on making tanks somewhere on this forum. If not PM me and I can email you a copy. It is a skill that will be of value for the rest of your life. The wheels won't fall off the undercarriage either. Collets? You can keep 'em

Posted by Keith Miles 2 on 11/07/2020 21:21:42: Posted by Mike Blandford on 11/07/2020 16:06:00: You haven't mentioned what radio gear you are using. Many modern radios include telemetry back from the model. With suitable sensors you can get the flight pack voltage and the motor current displayed (and even spoken). This may well avoid the need for a wattmeter. I have one, but haven't used it for a long time as I use the telemetry. Recently I've started using FrSky Neuron speed controllers with FrSky radio gear. The Neuron has built in sensors and sends voltage, current, RPM, capacity used and temperature back. Mike Telemetry is all well and good if you are prepared to buy and fit the necessary sensors or the type of ESC you describe to each and every model and it can be fully justified as opposed to it being just a fancy and unnecessary additional gizmo. Each to their own, but I also prefer not to have too many potential distractions when I’m flying! I prefer to pay attention to what I and the model are doing rather than be tempted to pay undue amounts of attention to the transmitter. Also, for some, a wattmeter, being a universal device, is simpler, perfectly adequate and probably more cost effective especially if you only fly models that are already set up or fitted with the recommended components which should not need in-flight monitoring. Beginners are also better off with simplicity than complexity, in my view. I'm far from a beginner but I don't bother with telemetry at all and don't intend to, even though my chosen make of radio (Multiplex) was the first 2.4 radio to have it and it was inbuilt from day one.. It's just gizmology. I've been flying RC since the 1960s and have never had a radio caused crash. Or "You are using 60 amps and the RPM is 9 thousand." So what? PS: Why do they have rev counters on automatic cars?

Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 12/07/2020 19:54:17: Yep, Multiplex have had this feature ever since digital trims were introduced on the Royal Evo over 15 years ago. Multiplex was first with most things. FM, PCM. computer radio, synthesised 'spot' frequencies so no crystals needed, a built in scanner so no 35 MHz 'spot' checks needed, the terrific 'intelligent' IPD 35 MHz receivers, and 2,4 telemetry, which they had from day one. Also their OS was the 'inspiration' for OpenTx. I've used Multiplex continuously since the early 1970s, when Crescent, who also made the original Tornado and Bullet kits, was the UK importer. But I'm not impressed by the new Cockpit.

Posted by Tony Richardson on 12/07/2020 22:59:09: I have flaps set up on a switch for take off and a slider for landing, the switch can be set at two preset positions for take off with down flap ay normal speed raising the flaps is a little slower allowing me in my advanced years to keep up with the aircraft should it decide to misbehave itself, the slider allows me to lower flaps to the degree I am comfortable with in the prevailing conditions, I also mix in elevator to follow flaps if required - depends on model - both at a slower speed so again easy to keep up with. It's all personal preference I think, as usual many different ways to achieve the same end. Yes. If you mix flap into elevator the 'flap' part of the overall elevator movement will move at the same speed at which the flap is moving which is what you want. Elevator movement caused by the stick is nor affected by this, which is also what you want. As for sliders or switches, it a matter of personal opinion,, as you say. When I first used flaps it was both intuitive and 'obvious' to use a slider so that is what I did. Later I found three positions, off, takeoff (half) and landing (full) was all that is needed You can of course use the tekeoff position for landing if you want. I bet hardly anyone using a slider ever uses anything except the two ends and the usually 'indented' middle. Strictly, glider camber adjustment is not the same thing as flaps.

Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 12/07/2020 07:46:00: Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 12/07/2020 07:25:16:   I tend to use a flap to elevator mix (if needed, which it often isn't) because I've got a 'thing' about never using the trims. It comes from my liking for 'mechanically optimising' the model rather than adjusting throws, centres, etc. electronically. During the first few flights of a new model I land and 'mechanically adjust' several times and from then on the trims remains centralised and never touched. Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 12/07/2020 07:26:34 Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 12/07/2020 07:34:58 Bit difficult on some gliders which use the flaps and ailerons for camber changes and need different elevator positions for speed and thermal settings, but that's getting away from the topic of this thread. I've only got one (powered) glider and I do it with flight modes, as Martin says in his post immediately above this one. You can of course achieve the same result either way (or even do both on the same model ). It may be strictly 'off topic' but the OP has said he may come back  with  more questions,  but if he sees all this stuff he may not need to. Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 12/07/2020 19:14:47 Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 12/07/2020 19:16:05

Posted by Keith Miles 2 on 11/07/2020 21:35:58: Posted by Richard Clark 2 on 11/07/2020 18:47:03: Perhaps surprisingly I've never flown any Cessna, nor been a passenger in one. As for the flap to elevator compensation moving the elevator fast when the full amount of the 'slow' flap part has not yet arrived at the mixer so is not yet 'known' by it I don't see how that can happen. Did I say that or are you quoting someone else? Sorry if I misunderstood. In my case, I have yet to use a mix, so can’t comment on that at all. First impressions suggested that I might not need it. A club mate has a Hangar 9 Cirrus and I asked him for advice on this issue before I test flew my Super Chipmunk. He doesn’t use a mix either.   It was somebody else, sorry  not to be as clear as I should have been. (To me what he said seems impossible.) I tend to use a flap to elevator mix (if needed, which it often isn't) because I've got a 'thing' about never using the trims. It comes from my liking for 'mechanically optimising' the model rather than adjusting throws, centres, etc. electronically. During the first few flights of a new model I land and 'mechanically adjust' several times and from then on the trims remains  centralised and never touched. Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 12/07/2020 07:26:34 Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 12/07/2020 07:34:58

Posted by David Ramsden on 11/07/2020 18:40:11: Thanks Keith and Geoff. Okay. I'm convinced. Please can you recommend a good value Watt meter for electric models? What make/model do you use? PS I am using a new Futaba T6K and for this model I bought the upgraded receiver and extra cable for monitoring the Lipo voltage in flight (although I'm not using that bit yet - still need to solder it in to the esc cables). I just did the maiden flight(!). Noticed that the motor was constantly windmilling during the glide. Looks like esc braking is my next challenge(!) and should probably be the subject of a new conversation thread. Thanks David Edited By David Ramsden on 11/07/2020 18:47:08 Edited By David Ramsden on 11/07/2020 18:48:50 Yippee!!! Success. (The braking should be in the ESC instructions (maybe in a 'glider' section if it has one) and is not usually the default so you will need to set it to 'on'. My wattmeter is distributed by J Perkins Distribution (who don't sell direct,  only to model shops, physical  and online)  and is called the EnErG Power Analyser and it's fine. It's got Deans sockets at each end so you would probably  have to make up a short 'plug to plug' lead for  the  battery (power input)  end.  You can also use it as a balancer (if you can find a suitable lead) and a battery checker but I've never tried either. Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 11/07/2020 19:06:50 Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 11/07/2020 19:12:36

Posted by Keith Miles 2 on 11/07/2020 12:34:05: I fly full size, too. Cessnas have powered flaps with gradual deployment. Pipers are manual with instant deployment. In practice, I find any pitch change is easily controlled in either case as you tend to both feel it and see it and then compensate with elevator automatically before re-trimming. Of course, you have no “feel” with a model, so I suppose it depends on how much pitch effect a given amount of flap has on a particular model (and you probably won’t know that until you try it) and how much correcting pitch trim is required. For my first, and currently only, flapped model, I opted for “book” setting and slow two-stage deployment using the timer on my DX9 purely to allow maximum reaction time to make any necessary pitch correction. I’ve only flown it a few times so the experiment continues. Thus far, I have found that I can comfortably control the model with just power and elevator without adding trim or needing a mix. I suppose, as with other things, it ultimately comes down to personal preference and Tx features although I suspect that gradual flap deployment might be generally preferable on a model, notwithstanding the possible difficulty mentioned if an elevator/flap mix is desired. Perhaps surprisingly I've never flown any Cessna, nor been a passenger in one. As for the flap to elevator compensation moving the elevator fast when the full amount of the 'slow' flap part has not yet arrived at the mixer so is not yet 'known' by it I don't see how that can happen.

These chargers should be able to run accurately off a varying voltage be they mains or a nominal 12 volts DC, But: Accurate, calibrated to 10 millivolts over a wide temperature range and able to retain that calibration over time? Fifty quid including manufactures profit, packaging, freight charges, import duty, importers profit, retailers profit, 20% VAT, and from a company you have never heard of in 'Asia'? Don't make me larf

Posted by john stones 1 on 10/07/2020 18:14:03: What's your thoughts on reducing servo speeds when deploying flaps ? Never bothered before as I've only used them rarely, model is a Funky Cub, quite large flaps, not concerned about pitch change when deployed, just curious what regular users think. I don't bother. Nobody ever does, me included, on a real plane. So if it's 'manual' it is near instant, if it is powered it depends on the speed of the hydraulics. Why? Use servo slow you are dealing with a varying situation over time. That just makes things more difficult. (It's even worse on take off with a propeller plane. Open the throttle slowly you are dealing with a varying torque and prop wash over the fin/rudder and trying to keep straight at the same time. My RAF instructors said to slam the throttle open so your are dealing with a fixed situation. You still have to reduce the rudder offset as you gain speed but at least it's linear. Try it on your Junior 60 and I guarantee you won't go round in circles as so many do ) PS: Put the flap on a 3 position switch. Up, half and full. There is no point in putting  them on a knob or slider, it just induces more unnecessary variables.  A switch 'sets up'  a  fixed situation and you don't have  to do anything  until your flare  for the actual landing.  Too many adjustable things just causes  pilot induced oscillations. Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 11/07/2020 07:05:37

David, I would like to add a little to Simon's excellent advice 1) Nobody has mentioned flying the plane. For all I know you may have previous glow engine plane experience. IF NOT GET SOMEBODY TO TEACH YOU. Your chance of successfully learning to fly by yourself is effectively zero. 2) Safety. Electrics can start up unexpectedly. When connecting the battery make sure the throttle is 'low', hold the plane secure, keep your hands well away from the prop. And a few 'incidentals'. Duration. Simon has covered it but if you don't have a wattmeter try this before you go and then recharge the battery when done so you are ready to fly for real. Secure the plane in a safe space outdoors, set the throttle to 'low'. start a timer, if there is one on the transmitter or use a stopwatch or regular clock. Slowly and steadily open and close the throttle repeatedly over a 10 to 20 second period until full speed notably deteriorates or the ESC cuts the motor, whichever is first. That's a good guide to actual in flight duration on a 'regular' powered plane. A powered glider will be more. Battery cut out voltage. The ESC will normally cut the motor automatically when the battery is low but if you get to that state you end up with a 'forced landing without power'.

Posted by David Ramsden on 10/07/2020 16:16:25: The battery in question is outdoors and Wireless-Madness have asked me to "Open a Returns Case" on Ebay. They will arrange for Hermes to collect it from me. Dee from Wireless-Madness just told me on the phone that people on forums are often over cautious with regard to Lipos and that packs with a low voltage cell can usually be recovered and thereafter work fine. He said between 1 in 100 and 1 in 1000 overlander batteries are like this and once recovered (by the process they talked me through) are fine. That advice seems directly contrary to all the advice I've received on this forum. As a complete novice, it is baffling to be confronted with this situation with my very first battery and charger. I am sending the battery back but obviously I still want one! Who would you go to for a good overlander 2900mah 3s by mail order? Go to? Overlander itself. Their online service is quick, they have more of their own brand batteries in stock than anyone else (obviously), and they actually test the individual cells and 'assemble' the pack themselves (I don't think anyone in the UK actually manufactures the individual cells). So they do have a clue, unlike some unknown bloke on Ebay who will probably be selling garden buckets or naff jewellery next week, or even some model shops. Much of their business is ' industrial' so they are are a fairly big and well known business with a reputation to protect. If you should need to call them their guys are competent too. Why waste time on 'middlemen', well known or not? And why   'recover'  a  new battery? You shouldn't have  to do that whatever he says.  Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 10/07/2020 16:54:09 Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 10/07/2020 16:55:06

Posted by Keith Miles 2 on 10/07/2020 15:22:31: Agree with others. NEVER take chances with any LiPo! Cells should be balance charged and kept in balance for a reason and once any cell has dropped below 3 volts it is likely to have already suffered damage and should be discarded. Furthermore a Lipo cell should NEVER be charged above 4.2 volts and any significant voltage differences between cells is also something to be very wary of. And NEVER use any setting on a charger other than the correct setting for the battery type and cell count/voltage! A good battery and charger and correct use of both will avoid potential dangers! I would also suggest that you get yourself a battery checker. Plenty of choice. Pocket sized and more convenient to use than a multimeter. If you want to see what can happen when you mistreat a Lipo, you will find a number of clips on YouTube! P.S. Oh, I see someone has since posted such a clip! Edited By Keith Miles 2 on 10/07/2020 15:25:53 Not only did he do it twice, he didn't put a door on his 'fireproof' cabinet. Dumb or what?

Posted by martin collins 1 on 10/07/2020 15:03:40: Thanks Shaun, came to the same conclusion in the end, just hope the hole through the ribs is large enough for servo wire. Replacing the fuselage control snakes as well as the inner on the plastic snakes is of the crimp type but they have not been crimped, only very old epoxy holding them in and the inner snake is also very brittle........... I dunno how experienced you are so you may not need this advice. You can remove the servo plug from the lead (so you can get a new lead through the wing) by VERY gently pulling up the little plastic tag on the plug with a pin one at a time and pulling its wire back a little way. When you have done all three you can pull the whole lead off. Later you can 'pop' them back in.

Posted by EarlyBird on 10/07/2020 13:01:59: David For me that is very bad advice from Adam at Wireless-Madness because all the readings indicate it is a faulty battery and therefore dangerous to use. I would follow the advice given by Nigel R. What has Adam gained by his bad advice? Saved having to refund you? Totally compromised Wireless-Madness's good name? He's certainly lost me as a potential customer. All in an attempt to avoid giving David his money back.

Yeah. The rotary ones used those awful tapered splines for the output disc. If you didn't do it up real tight the disc could slip and if you did you could strip the thread in the output shaft.

Posted by Ron Gray on 10/07/2020 12:02:45: ......who can argue that your chosen colour are wrong> well unless you chose pink...... There were some pink ones, used for PR.

Personally I would replace it with a modern 'rotary' servo. Nobody seems to make linear ones anymore. Use an output disc rather than an 'arm' and drill a hole for the kwiklinks a short distance either side of the existing holes. Preferably 'out of line' with the existing holes to keep the distance short and so they don't break through to the original hole. You will have to deepen the holes in the ribs a bit to turn them into 'slots' to allow for the slight up and down movement.

I agree with Anthony. My old Multiplex Graffiti had the same problem. but when I set it up with 'flaperons' it came down at about a 45 degree angle . Though the fuselage was more or less horizontal. A few points: Don't set them, 'up' too much I suggest about 5mm to start with. You can always increase it. Check that with them up and the ailerons moved fully left and right you don't strain the hinges. Make sure it's the same both sides. It probably will if the ailerons move evenly already. You don't need them on a slider, a switch will do. You might need to mix in a little up elevator when they go up. TAKE CARE. Try the effect high up at the beginning. Sideslips as an alternative. All fine in theory but with a model it's difficult as it's very much a 'seat of the pants' affair to get it right and you don't have that with a model.

Graham, Getting the 'correct' colours is difficult. EG: do you want a 1940s 'factory fresh' scheme, a faded one, a probably colour inaccurate restoration, a faded one of those, which particular restoration, etc? Then there is matt, satin or semi-gloss? Satin look weird, and after seeing service, with oil leaks, cleaning etc, they often ended up quite shiny, particularly noticeable on the darker upper surfaces. Photos? Colour ones of that period are rare and won't be accurate, modern film colour balance varies, and digital varies again, different from film and different from one make of camera to the next. Computer monitors vary a lot and the colour is created a different way, with colour created by 'emission' rather than reflection/absorption of daylight on dyed paper. This may be useful. look an the1938 to 1945 section. It's got the proper colour references, the relevant model paint colours from Humbrol, etc, and click on the 'FS' column and you see the colour (with the monitor limitations above of course) search for this. It's the Urban's  one you want: colour reference charts - united kingdom I admit I gave up on this stuff for ,my TopFlite Spitfire and just uses aerosols from a car shop and then sprayed on a matt coat.. It looked fine to me.   Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 09/07/2020 20:00:14 Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 09/07/2020 20:01:18

Posted by Graham R on 09/07/2020 10:57:45: Thank you guys for your help. I think it’s time I admitted something and get it out in the open. After doing a lot of research I have come to realise that I suffer with a form of ADHD - perfectionism. This is where very little is right and so what will others think. This leads to procrastination, anxiety and round we go again. In the case of the WB spit, I have spent many hours looking at paint charts from different manufacturers comparing paint colours against pictures (of which non match) and so asking for help. The same happened with my guitar playing which I have now stopped. This condition seems to get worse as I get older. Thank you for reading. ps. Richard, The bf109 really did fall from a height and broke its back end. Don't worry. It's common among modellers of all kinds. "Make sure you've got the correct number of buttons on the stationmaster's jacket" As for the Spitfire Mk 9, the correct colour (though not always used) for the leading edge cloth gun  covers  was formally described as 'Pie dish brown' so not red or yellow. But I've long lost the superb 'Aeromodeller' 1/72 plan that gave the reference Edited By Richard Clark 2 on 09/07/2020 12:01:56