Rapide

I did send the seller an enquiry 3 days ago but got no reply. I think I'll leave it.

So another twist to my Rapide story: A pilot who still flies G-AHAG has told me that the markings on the aircraft in the photo I posted, could not be us boarding in the 1950's as it did not bear the words "Scenic Flights" until mid '60s. So it was back to square one to think it out again if I am to fix the correct Registration number on my model. I have another pic which is me and my sister posing in front of a Rapide that is unidentifiable. So I went with the comment that I remember from the rather posh gent who welcomed us at Portsmouth with the words "So what was it like to be flown by a woman Eh? She's the first ever female captain of a commercial passenger airline". Having researched that in the hope of finding identification of the actual aircraft, it led me to well documented stories of Jackie Moggridge who is described as the that person - piloting a return flight from Portsmouth to Sandown Airport (Isle of Wight) rather than Bembridge, when given a test period employed by what was to become Channel Airways. There may be a year difference but it definitely fits what me and my sister remember. And then another stroke of luck from enquiring to a website called Solent Aviatrix (female pilots). The lady who runs that replied to say that Jackie's daughter is a friend of hers and has the relevant log-book!!! So I await the result of a read of the appropriate entry to see if it states the Aircraft identity. Watch this space.

I am an rc flyer of little knowledge so I hugely appreciate your info. The first time I heard of a Spartan (apart from a car my sister once owned) was last week when, because ages ago I was a fundraiser for historic aircraft, I got involved in this appeal to bring a three seat version back to Sandown from NZ. The model is still there on ebay but doesn't come up under RC model aircraft. Try loading Spartan Arrow. Seller is in Brentwood.

Thank you so much for the response. That is a beautiful model. By coincidence a much used 60" model has just appeared for sale on ebay. I have enquired with the seller. I am involved in an appeal to bring back a full size aircraft from New Zealand to the Isle of Wight where it was built and operated.

I have seen on Utube a rc model of a Spartan Arrow biplane but no clue as to who the flyer is. Does anyone know anyone who has built one or has a plan?

And there's a happy ending:- I said that I was building the Rapide because it was the first aircraft I ever flew in - with my sister and dad from Bembridge to Hilsea (Portsmouth). My sister unearthed a photo of us boarding, which she confirmed was 1956 and the Registration number is clearly visible. When I googled the number, to my utter surprise, I found it is still flying 😊. I have been in touch with the current operator, Scillonia Airways, and will relive the flight this year. Damn - that means I've got to change the colour scheme.............

How did you copy that. I could not find a way. It just came up with a copyright claim which I respected. Hope he doesn't enforce it. There are other useful George quotes on the subject.

Thankyou Caveman, There are a number of mentions on the 4-Max website of high revs leading to burn out burning out but they won't allow copying sections to paste elsewhere. For one mention, go to the website and click on "Brushless Motors". For ages, I have bench tested electric motors without cooling before flying with them, mostly to avoid fault-finding in the air, but never for a long period and always without a problem - until now. Interesting point you make about the prop - I assume the initials are manufacturers names? But I don't know the difference. As with most things in electric flight, I have never questioned the wisdom of George!

Having had advice from all angles (which was very helpful) and read everything I can find on the subject, and taken apart the motors and tested my wiring, I have concluded as dry solder joints usually cause "oscillation" and that did not happen, that cause is unlikely. The main cause suggested by most, and ironically, that I now read on the 4-Max website a specific warning about, and that exactly fits with what happened, is these motors WILL burn-out if run at full throttle. It would help if a prominent notice stating this fact was on the motor description AND on the package that it is sold in.

As this is already the most expensive and time consuming model I have ever attempted, buying the motors/ESCs/Lipo/wiring/connectors/solder all over again is sadly a non-starter. I have six other aircraft - 5 of which have flown carrying my soldering and hardware installations and all survived and only await decent weather to fly again. So I have decided to just finish the Rapide and hang it up to admire the first aircraft I ever flew in. That was nearly 65 years ago (not possible!) with my ex WWII RAF pilot Dad, flown by the first ever female commercial airline (BEA) captain from Bembridge on the Isle of Wight to possibly Southsea. So thankyou all once again and I'll let you get back to building/flying. Cheers, Ian

George at 4-Max replied quickly as usual and his opinion is very logical so I accept his conclusion that it sounds like a dry/high resistance solder joint/s which work OK at low current levels but would become apparent when high current is drawn. If there is a bad solder joint on one or more of the 3 wires that go between the ESC and the motor, you no longer have a motor, but you have a heater, as there is effectively a direct short across one of the coils in the motor which will burn out if the power isn’t removed immediately. With my level of expertise, I am quite prepared to accept it was down to my soldering, especially as for each motor there are 3 male and female connectors from the motor to the extension wires and 3 more from the extension wires to the ESC. For both motors, that is a total of 24 soldered connecters with no way of knowing if any or all are good. Overheating due to no props (earlybird) is a good thought but I feel less likely as I only ran them low for about 10 seconds and the burnout then occurred about 3 seconds after full throttle was applied. I hope this is all helpful to someone. I shall finish the model (motor and wheel fairings - struts - aileron links) and return to motors later - perhaps.

Yes - my mistake, the first was a suggestion from another company that I did not buy from. I then ordered the recommended package from George.

Thanks for your responses. I assure you I am getting in touch with George as it was his recommended package for the Dumas Rapide that he sold me. For further info in case anyone can guess what went wrong I offer the following which is exactly how I wired it:-

I tried to edit the above but couldn't work out how to. The actual hardware order was: 2x Motor PPOM-2314-2400 £14.99 each www.4-max.co.uk/ppom-2314-2400.html 2x ESC 4M-ESC12A £13.95 each www.4-max.co.uk/4m-esc12a.html 2x Prop Driver PP-PDRV30-50 £ 2.75 each www.4-max.co.uk/propdrivers.htm 1x Prop APCE 6x4 Standard £ 2.55 each www.4-max.co.uk/apc-props.htm 1x Prop APCE 6x4 Pusher £ 2.80 each www.4-max.co.uk/apc-props.htm 1x Battery PPL-60C2S-1300 £11.00 each www.4-max.co.uk/lipos.htm

Thank you for responding. Do not know how many Amps it was pulling. I relied on the expertise of the set-up I was sold and I still would believe that 4-Max know what they are talking about. They recommended specifically for the Dumas Rapide: MOTORS 2 x Thumper T2822/27 B/L Motors SKU2973 PROPS 2 x APC E 8 x 4 Props. APCLP08040E SPEED CONS 2 x 20amp ESC Units HW80060010 BATTERIES 2 x 3s 850mah Lipo or similar SKU2817 So we are looking for something else at present - wiring thickness perhaps? but I don't understand how that could affect the motors. As for prop size (which came with the package supposedly designed for the actual Dumas model) I was of course testing with props removed when the damage was done. I am assuming the ESP's can not be relied on. All thoughts welcome...................