IDD15

More significant progress on the full size electric front. eCaravan Some very significant progress too in terms of providing redundancy in the motor and power supply. This outfit certainly appear to have their act together whilst pushing the boundaries... idd

Wonder if they use regen braking through the prop on the descent to recover some energy back into the batteries? Works a treat on my Leaf. Onwards and now upwards! idd

Posted by Denis Watkins on 12/08/2019 08:06:14: My neighbour runs one of these Toyotas as an high mileage company car FB And cannot speak highly enough of the lower cost stress free driving With the Hybrid not requiring an umbilical cord attached to the house Edited By Denis Watkins on 12/08/2019 08:06:59 This is exactly my point all along. People need to get a vehicle that suits their needs, with the current state of vehicle development/infrastructure a BEV cannot suit everybody. In 5 years it might be a totally different story, but who knows? idd

Buster Prop My understanding of your post is that you are not currently "indoctrinated" into the EV world, if you are then I'm sorry if the following tells you something you already know! There are really two main competing standards for Rapid DC charging at the moment, CCS and CHADEMO. Most (not all!) Rapids support both of these two standards. Some even offer a third AC charging option. Hence Don's reference to the VHS/BETAMAX spat. The only manufacturers who support CHADEMO are Nissan and I think Mitsuibushi. Certainly in the last 12 months or so I think every car manufacturer who has announced or even delivered a BEV has gone the CCS route. However Nissan and Mitsuibushi sell a lot of electric vehicles in the UK so CHADEMO is probably going to be around for quite some time. Criticism in the article of how the UK has rolled out public charging I don't think any BEV driver would disagree with. If you go to the Fastned site you can see how well this company has built a comprehensive network of Rapid chargers in the Benelux, Northern Germany region. Happily they have just opened their first site in the UK, with hopefully with a lot more to follow. There are also a couple of other companies who are also gearing up, Ionity being one. In the nearly three years I have been driving my Leaf things have a got a lot better, but Government does seem very "hands off ". The fact that we contactless payment has been so long in coming is I think a good example of this. If I was still doing the business miles that FilmBuff has to do then I don't think I'd be very happy driving a BEV! Unless of course it was a Tesla but that's a whole different story! idd

Some electric auto exotica for the weekend, both old Auto Conversions and new Porsche Also some good news for Londoners and UK jobs London Taxis LEVC now have a van variant of the taxi too. As many people have already posted on here cars are only one part of the jigsaw, so its good to see further development on commercial vehicles. idd

Posted by Erfolg on 24/07/2019 00:07:14: The only reason I did not state the manufacturer is i cannot be sure how reliable the information is and what the official position the company has. It was very interesting to me in that i stated i wanted a vehicle that would reliably undertake a round trip journey of 140 miles daily, without charging, in the depths of winter and extremes of summer. You will all recognise what i want, heated seats, windscreen demisting, cabin heating and air conditioning to maintain 20C. Of necessity there would be quite a bit of stop and start driving. His opinion that i would be pushing the extremes of the capability of the vehicle, under some conditions.Although the vehicle was supposed to have 250 mile range I am very intrigued as to why such a conservative opinion would be voiced. Calculations using my energy consumption figures from my Leaf would indicate that you would use approximately 35 KWhr in winter and 30 KWhr in summer. With recharge times using a domestic 7 KWHr charger of about 6 and 5hrs respectively. On those figures I would suggest any of the 60 KWhr machines with a minimum 4 miles/KWhr consumption would be adequate. Indeed I think even the Kona and Ioniq 40 KWhr, and ZOE 50 would do it. A lot would depend on what contingency you would feel you needed charge wise. It is important to have a contingency, as a case in point our trip to Leeds yesterday is a good example. Going the car used 13 KWhr, and on the return 17.5 KWhr. On the return trip we had heavy rain, spray, and an ungodly amount of standing water on the M62. Thoroughly unpleasant, and I was very glad I had the opportunity to top up charge whilst in Leeds off our friends garage socket. So what are missing here that caused the car sales person to be so conservative do you think? I pity any poor soul doing a 140 mile daily commute in this day and age. Having had an 84 mile commute for 15 years I would not want to repeat it. That's 12 hrs a week of my life I won't get back.... idd

Posted by Tom Sharp 2 on 28/07/2019 19:27:31: It's 7.30 pm here in Cheshire and it's almost dark so need the lights on. So that's another power consumption estimation gone for a burton. You forgot to mention it is still raining due to global warming and that our shiny new bypass is a canal! Forget cars I'm getting me a boat!!!! idd

Tom Who have Cheshire East gone with? Good grief, Macclesfield might even get a charge point! Erf Think that is a very succinct assessment of where things are at. Are 20 year investments though such a bad thing? After all I think we have all complained about short termism in one form or other at some point in this thread! So give us the gossip then, to which dealership were you talking to? idd

Posted by Keith Miles 2 on 23/07/2019 14:58:24: Oh, forgot to mention that when looking at the What Car review of the Kia E-Niro that the reviewers name is, apparently, Doug Revolta! Revolution and volt? Coincidence or did he make that up to get the job? 😊 Good one! Yes the article was interesting and quite eye opening. My son made a comment the other day about the costs of cars and running them, and how many people of his age (early twenties) don't. It is going to be interesting to see what happens in the next few years transport wise for sure. Thanks again for the link to those articles, I've got a few now on my to read list. idd

Mike My apologies. My response was cut and pasted from Google Docs and I was not aware that bold was considered shouting, so my bad. Thank you for the link to the document. It and others on the site may help me finally get my head around vehicle leasing, so again thanks for that. idd

Mike My apologies. My response was cut and pasted from Google Docs and I was not aware that bold was considered shouting, so my bad. Thank you for the link to the document. It and others on the site may help me finally get my head around vehicle leasing, so again thanks for that. idd

Posted by Percy Verance on 22/07/2019 20:04:04: Well I shan't be buying an e scooter then... I was considering an electric bike though. There are several already in use around my village - my neighbour has one. Worthy of further investigation perhaps? Me too, I'd like to use one for work. We hired a couple to do the Monsal Trail a couple of weeks back and they were really good. Don, I think this is your cue!

Keith “Did I decry efforts to find solutions? Don’t think so.” Nor do you champion any. Your position on EV’s is very apparent from your previous posts. “MY “beloved” petrochemical industry? What a silly and baseless comment. I have never even been employed by them or bought their shares.” Agreed a cheap shot, please accept my apologies. “Some of the comments being made in this thread (a common affliction, it seems) are akin to the reaction one gets from certain religious groups when they feel that their faith is being attacked.” Well I guess one cheap shot deserves another, and I’ve been called a lot worse on this thread! “Are you seriously suggesting that I should be ashamed of all the copper wire I’ve installed? More silly nonsense.” No, it was more a rhetorical question referencing your previous position on lithium mining and full scrutiny thereof. You clearly expect that everything to do with EV’s should worked out and evidenced to the n’th degree, which is fair enough. Yet no sooner had Percy “come out” about his future purchase you seek to question it by quoting some source (not evidenced) about running costs and battery longevity. Followed by yet another absolute and “damning” statement of EV’s and ownership. Why not just ask the question(s) on costs here? Might not be able to give you an answer, or indeed it might not be the answer you want. But I think most EV types would honestly try. “ALL of us play, and have played our part in damaging the planet on a daily basis but I doubt that any of us did so, or do so, deliberately, in order to damage the planet. We will also continue to do so, the only change would seem to be the extent to which we do so and the nature of the damage that we do.” Agreed. “There’s a word for the cause. Consumerism.” Well it probably isn’t helping that’s for sure. But there are an awful lot of consumers and if you can effect even a small beneficial change in consumption and behaviour then big changes can happen. It is perfectly right to be sceptical given the amount of “greenwash” and fake everything else we have thrown at us these days. However, as the saying goes “nothing ventured, nothing gained. The caveat being to venture when you're ready to…. My apologies again for the cheap shot. Idd

Posted by Keith Miles 2 on 21/07/2019 20:10:19: By pure coincidence, prior to seeing Percy’s most recent post, I came across an article about relative costs of EV ownership over three years. Seems that not only are EVs significantly more expensive to buy than an IC equivalent but that they also have the highest depreciation rates, compared to IC alternatives and across all categories. Insurance, it seems, is also more expensive for EVs although insurers are expecting premiums to reduce over time. The article also points out the possible additional cost of battery replacement or leasing to factor in if not already included. Prior to this, and ready to be persuaded, I also found reviews of the eNiro which were pretty impressive, I must admit. However, the reviews did not include any of the aforementioned factors merely concentrating on the merits of the vehicle itself. So, the environmental advantages would appear questionable and EV ownership, currently, would also appear to work out, taking everything into account, probably more expensive overall rather than less so, as things stand. I have never been an “early adopter” of anything preferring to take a “wait and see” approach and you will certainly never see me sleeping in a shop doorway waiting for the latest gadget to arrive. I have never been a gambler either! So lets apply some facts to this shall we? Nissan Leaf 30 Kw Model replaced my Hyundai i30 Petrol manual. Insurance cost near as dammit the same. Servicing £85 annual service Depreciation, car is valued at £2K more than projected in vehicle lease according to the dealership. If it was diesel the residual value would not only be in the toilet, but flushed away. Again according to the dealership. Fuel cost: Minimal as I charge at home off the solar panels or for free when I do the shop at Lidl. Vehicle cost more expensive, yes but I got the smoothest, quietest fully automatic vehicle this side of a Rolls Royce or a Tesla. For the mainly tedious stop start city driving I do it is perfect. Battery degradation, car is still showing 12 bars life after 15,000 miles. Taxi company has just sold on a 130,000 NV200 minibus (Leaf chassis and power train) and its battery is still showing 12 bars. Battery has an 8yr, 100,000 mile warranty so am not particularly worried. Nissan are now claiming the battery packs will have a life of 20 years. I am looking forward to seeing your detailed analysis of the environmental mining and refining costs of all the copper wire you've installed over the years as a spark. Then there are also the expensive metals and god knows what in the chemical plant at the back of the engine to clean it up to look at to. You are absolutely correct to say things should be fully scrutinised. We as a society can and should do better to prevent this: Pollution link to childs death EV's are not the only solution to this problem, but at least people are trying to find solutions. I see very little of this from your beloved petrochem industry. idd

Good grief 2021 for delivery is just stark staring bonkers! Certainly it is not going to help EV adoption rates nor bring down prices that's for sure. Just a bit concerning for me given the lease is up on the Leaf this December, any advice on car leasing warmly welcomed! Welcome to the fold Percy. idd

Meanwhile the most important news item of the week, on the charging front at least. Card Payments at Rapids And about time too. Grrrrrrr! idd

Well after a week of "flouncing" around this thread is still driving me up the wall! Nobe You gotta love the style. idd

For goodness sake cheer up guys! I have been driving the Leaf now for 31 months and am very, very happy with it. To suggest that a current BEV is completely inferior in every respect to an ICE vehicle is quite frankly just complete bulls dangly bits. The Renault Zoe is seven years old and its gen 3 version is due in the next couple of months. Seven years ago at launch the Zoe had a 22KWhr battery. New Zoe 50 will have a 50KWHr battery. In seven years the battery has more than doubled BUT the chassis is the same size. Formula E required two cars in a team in order to complete the race when it first started. The driver had to swap cars (battery swapping was considered too dangerous) and complete the race in the second car. In just FOUR years they now just need ONE car and ONE battery to complete the same race. The Leaf is now available with TWICE the capacity battery that mine has. OK so I admit it is slightly better looking but it is near as dammit the same size as my vehicle. The number of public charging points has more than doubled since I started driving my Leaf and more and more are planned and coming on stream all the time. Public charging is far from perfect, and still patchy in quite a few areas but it is getting better. High performance battery vehicles are slaughtering previous records set by ICE vehicles, Pikes Peak, Goodwood Festival of speed to name but two. You won't see an electric car at Le Mans for a while yet but the Hybrids Audi have developed are absolutely phenomenal beasts. I have said it before many times on this thread, the numbers are going in the right direction. Yes it is a small segment of the market but its a rapidly growing segment, with more innovation and creative energy than the rest "oooh look what we've done with the cup holders this year" market. As consumers we now have a bigger choice of transport options to meet our needs from scooters and skateboards, Ebikes (Don) through to cars, vans and soon lorries even. Come 2040 you will still be able to buy an ICE vehicle, it will just have a motor and battery in it to help it along. BUT you will be breathing cleaner air and maybe we won't be burning up the planet so fast. The future is already here. Model 3 This is my last contribution to this thread. The constant negativity that goes on here is just completely pointless. Any body who would like some help or advice re EV's please just PM me and i'll do my best to help. Idd (....gone flying dept.)

The BBC have done a pretty good Q&A on electric cars which those who have not been paying attention in the previous 74 pages of this thread may find useful. BBC Q&A As an EV driver it seems fair and accurate piece really. Strangely nobody mentioned caravans... Idd

Percy Quite agree about EVM's Youtube channel, tells it like it is warts and all! Can't quite understand why some people have to be so negative all the time on this thread. We are starting to see some real innovation now in transport which ultimately will benefit them, the consumer. Will the answer be fuel cells, batteries, hydrogen, hybrids, robo taxies, scooters, ebikes, solar or nuclear? Don't know and don't really care so long as it is better than what has gone before and travelling becomes pleasurable again and not a chore. idd

Posted by Wingman on 08/07/2019 18:43:42: @DickW - thankyou that's exactly what I was asking for - looks like you can't take your family on holiday with an electric car yet a while - strictly for town puttering only. Wrong, wrong, wrong! Why are you taking anecdotal evidence from someone who does not drive an EV!!! ??? Please see my answer above. If you are going on holiday you need to be very aware of what charging facilities there are at your destination. If your going to Scotland not a problem. Going to SW Wales forget the BEV and pack an ICE. Always remember Zap Map is your friend idd

Posted by Wingman on 07/07/2019 21:52:22: It's the range thing that always bothers me about electric cars. I recently drove 450 miles which took me about 8 hours where I stopped once for fuel, twice for 'comfort' and once for 30 minutes for lunch. I travelled at 80 mph where possible. I was wondering if anybody on here has done a similar sort of distance in an electric vehicle and, if so, would they like to share their journey details so I can get some sort of idea how that sort of range is covered electrically. Have not done 450miles in my 30KW Leaf but that sort of distance would be no problem for a 60KW Niro/Kona with one possibly two fast recharges of 30 to 40 minutes. Did S Manchester to Watford last year to visit the Harry Potter Studio Tour in the Leaf. Four adults, air conditioning on (very hot days) and two fast charges each way. About 360 miles in total with an overnight stop. Cost about £9 for the charges I seem to remember, but I did get lucky with a "free vend" at one pump! The Leaf is a little light on range, we reckon a 40KWh battery is the way to go for us as that extra half hour or so of distance would neatly tie in with wanting to have a break from driving. It is funny reading this thread though, in its early days 200 miles was seen as the minimum range, now its at least 300!!! Some people clearly have quite remarkable kidneys. Joking aside it is important to really honestly analyse your journeys as to what you really do before buying a BEV. If you don't you could wind up spending an awful lot of money on a battery you don't really need. The charging situation is rapidly improving now and will get better. Better a 30 minute charge on that one long journey once a year than forking out another £5K on the car methinks. idd

Well the bandages are off and the stitches are finally out and the ear still looks like an ear! Don’t forget to slap on the Factor 50 and wear a hat for the good flying still to come! Happy flying folks Idd

Pete has a very valid point in terms of weight and EV's and manufacturing legacy. For example my Leaf has a 12V car battery under the bonnet which I find very bizarre. However I don't think the "regulations" are all bad. I hate to think of what the result would be to my 1980's Mini Clubman, or Don's Ford Anglia if they had to go through the NCAP testing faced by modern cars. idd Audi Etron Testing

BMW are addressing the needs of caravan owners with their new electric Mini. Pitch fees at the campsite must be high though.... idd Mini Towing