Mr Krang Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I currently have a Fusion 60 and I'm starting to think that what I thought would be my local flying site is not ideal as far as lift goes. Today the wind was ranging from about 15-18mph gusting up to 26mph at times. When the wind was up (18+) I could get the F60 up floating about but as soon as the wind dropped so did the Fusion. This was with the wind blowing from the south, I have a slightly better slope for north, west and east. in the same area. I'd rather buy something I can use locally than drive to a better location. Would I have had more luck with a Weasel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil May Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Never flown a Fusion,but I would off thought at 15mph it should be on full song.I have a W.T and it is great from about 10mph and my little Weasel is a sports car on 10mph winds......definatley recommend the Weasel. May be the hill is no good for producing lift........how high and steep is it. I'm new-ish to sloping so maybe some of the more experienced guys can help more. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 OK, so if your Fusion is only flying in 18 plus, there is def something amiss. Maybe its sulking cos you didn't give it a lurid colour scheme? Near impossible to comment with what little we know.......... Other flying experience? How measuring the wind? Square on the slope? Surface Throws? Reflex set? Weight? (though I have a right porker of a 46" WT which is perfectly happy in 8-10) Where do you fly? (Google Earth it) Don't forget some hills can "blow out" and then lift gets worse as the wind goes above the critical level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Satinet Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 either the hill doesn't produce meaningful lift, or as stated above, there is a major problem with the model. I don't think the weasel will go up that more tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Krang Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Thanks for the replys Phil, Dave and Tom. I think it's more the hill I was on yesterday (Tregarrick Tor) rather than the Fusion as I had it flying in less wind (8-10mph) a few weeks before. I've only ever flown IC before, a Tweplica, which I had great success with last summer but I have since crashed it this year. I was measuring the wind with an anemometer, a Skywatch Xplorer 3. The slope I was flying from yesterday is not very square so far from ideal as I understand it. I have the maximum surface throws available to me. I adjusted reflex from as per the instructions to maximum adjustment on the trim which was plus another 10 degrees or so. My F60 weight is 1102g I'm mainly flying from The cheesewring Tor on Bodmin moor This is a view to the north which is where I flew the first time I took it out. There was quite a lot of lift there for the wind available. It's hard to see the slope down but it does drop off quite well. This is a view to the east from the same spot. I've not had chance to try this edge yet. I was flying from a Tregarrick Tor yesterday (which overlooks Siblyback reservoir) as the wind was from the south and The Cheese is not ideal when the wind is in that direction, Mainly due to its popularity. I will add a photo below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Krang Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 This is a photo from the top of Treggarick Tor. Not 100% the direction I was flying in, this is more looking s/e. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Houghton 1 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Ideally the slope should have a flat or concave face, if the slope has a convexed face, the wind can slide off the face and therefore reduce the direct upward draft. But what you described, i.e. the Fusion would float around when the wind was blowing, but when the wind died, so did the Fusion, this sounds like you may have been flying in a thermal when you could feel the wind blowing. As the thermal passed by you, it left dead air in its wake and the Fusion would sink, which is a natural course of events and one which you will learn about the more you progress into sloping. This dead air, or sink can make your glider drop like a stone, which all of us on the slope have experienced and in some cases, almost had to have a change of underwear at the time. A friend of mine was flying his 3m plus F3J glider on the Crest in S Wales on Sunday. the glider hit the dead air and began to sink like a stone but recovered about 150ft below the flier and slowly managed to rise again, but what a trouser filling moment that was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Satinet Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 big surface throws don't make the model go up more. In fact large surface deflections just increase drag and slow the model down. I adjusted reflex from as per the instructions to maximum adjustment on the trim which was plus another 10 degrees or so I think we may be on to a source of at least one problem here. It should like you model is way too nose heavy if you are flying with 10 degrees of "UP". Crickey that is a lot of up! The fusion isn't a model that flies with a virtually flat elevon profile, like say an M60, but it should not neeed that kind of "upness" in it. When setting up these plank/wing type models the relationship between CG and the amount of reflex is really key. Well every model needs to be ballanced right of course, but on normal models you have a fairly obvious neutral point to work from (unless it has an all moving tail - and even then you can measure the angle). With planks/wings they usually don't have the inherent stability of a tailed plane, although the SAS stuff is what you might call fairly mildly tuned (again in comparision to say an m60/hp60/gulp sr etc etc.). Without wanting to state the obvious if you have a lot of up elevator it is like the otherside of a see-saw trying to counteract the nose weight. I often see these kind of models flown at my local hill and often get volunteered to fly them - mostly I find the CGs are way too far forward and the throws are way too large (or sometimes way too small). If you have 10 degrees of up elevon beyond setting a straight line with the bottom of the aerofoil you either have a very nose heavy plane or you are flying way way too slowly, although I would think the model would just loop back over your head in 20mph wind. What does it do in a dive test? Maybe if you put a photo of your elevon position relative to the fin/aerofoil it might be of use. 10 degrees sounds awry. Edited By Tom Satinet on 08/05/2012 12:22:12 Edited By Tom Satinet on 08/05/2012 12:23:42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Krang Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 When I say I adjusted the reflex from as per intructions to plux max trim that was just testing. Max trim was too much; it wasn't looping over my head but I had to keep forward stick to keep it down. I settled for some up trim baybe a quarter of possible adjustment. Here are a couple of pics at centre trim. And a couple at max trim, but this was like you say way too much! I originally had 8 x 2p's taped to the front of my batterpack which gave me 61 ish grams up front.I've since added double that to make it about 122g. I tried both yesterday and it seemed to fly better with more weight plus a few clicks of trim. With less it seemed to get pushed back in the sky behind me. I've also tried with and without 150g of lead in the belly on the COG. It flew better yesterday without any ballast. Don't know what a test dive is but if you let me know I can try one next time I'm out. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Satinet Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 that looks okay then! you have me worried for a second... maybe the hill is just tom tit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peewhit Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 When new, my Fusion would fly in two ways - either wallowing around or heading down the slope at a fair rate of knots. It needed to fly faster in "level" flight and the answer is ballast. Mine is the 46" and I now fly it with 4oz of ballast permanently embedded into the fus right on the C of G. Surprisingly, it will fly in lighter winds with ballast as the increase in speed produces more lift. You will probably need about 6oz of ballast for the 60", but try it with 4oz first and see. It does become a very different and much better ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Krang Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Thanks for your input Peewhit. As I stated above I have tried it with ballast in the belly on the CoG, after reading a thread on here where someone had added a small ply and bolt fixture in a cut out on the underside. I did state 150g (5.35oz) but I have just checked and it was closer to 130g (4.64oz) after I removed one of the pieces from the stack. I do feel like it helped it move forward in the sky, then I removed it and it felt like it went up better. In the end I couldn't make my mind up and ended the day flying without. I'll keep experimenting over the next few weeks and see if I can get it dialled in a bit better. In the mean time I've accidentally ordered a new rx, micro servos and AAA battery pack so it looks like I'll have to get a Weasel too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil May Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Mr Krang, the Weasel is a fantastic model, it loves close in flying,. I fly mine in 5 mph and flown in 20 +mph,,,,,,,,,,,great fun Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Krang Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 Had a really good day out on the slope today. Flew until the battery ran out. I found out what the dive test was and it seemed to be perfect, maybe occasionally pulling up slightly. Wind was from the north so I got to fly the best local slope, wind was gusting up to 14(ish)mph and the lift was great. I've reduced the thows so that they're closer to the instruction manual. Was even joined by a couple of birds of prey for a couple of minutes although by the time I got the camera back out they were just tiny specks and the camera wouldn't focus on them. Have no idea what they were and I wish I'd got a picture. Think the F60 is pretty sorted now, the Futaba servos are holding up, just need to get loads more flying in. Weasel arrived this morning from T9 so I just need to decide how I'm going to build it. I want it light but then I also want it tough. eta.. just had a bit of a google and I think they might have been a pair of Common Buzzards. Edited By Mr Krang on 12/05/2012 19:54:33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Houghton 1 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I think you'll find the Weasel tough enough as it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 mk....i know a couple of weasel owners---one has his taped and the other is the way it came out of the box......i would say there is nothing to gain by putting any sort of tape on the model.... ken anderson ne..1 ..HTP weasel dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Krang Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 Bit late now Ken! I was up unitl 4 this morning and it's now covered in tape. I had a look over my Fusion and decided I needed to. I dont think cornish granite likes these foamies very much. I'm not sure how an extra layer of protection is not gaining anything? I can always take it off, which I may have to anyway, as the roll of tape I got from ebay is rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil May Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 No tape on mine and no issues with the foam at all, other than a couple of stripes these are a tuff little model and you WILL enjoy it ..... I love mine, it is at it's best, in my opinion, close in flying, really agile and quick. Flown mine in 20 plus wind. Phil Edited By Big Phil on 13/05/2012 12:46:38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Krang Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 What kind of LZ have you got Phil? I seem to spend more time crashing into big rocks than flying at the moment. I presume yours is the EPO version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Krang Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 Took the Weasel out this afternoon after the race to see what it can do. Phil you were right, great fun! I can confirm that even with the packing tape covering, it can go up in a much lighter lift than the F60. Was flying it in 14-20mph winds and it was great. Set it up as per the instructions and the only change I made was to switch from beginner rates as they were a bit tame for my liking. Ended up letting the gf have a go and she managed to crash it breaking the divider between the battery and rx. It's a clean break though so I taped it back up and carried on. Will glue it back in now I'm home. Flew it for another half hour before crashing it again, this time into a big rock, breaking the belly pan. Foam part of the nose is now a couple of mm shorter so will try and boil it straight. Really good model, I can see myself taking this out over the F60 quite often. Just waiting for my "Axis of Weasel" stickers to finish it off. Edited By Mr Krang on 13/05/2012 19:47:40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Spitfire Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Its Weasel all the way for me !!. I was on a local site last year, when some guy turned up with a ballasted Fusion. The wind was blowing around 20mph......and this guy asked how much ballast my Wevo was carrying. I gave my usual reply.......NONE !!. The guy was gobsmacked at how she was screaming round........then pinged off into a thermal !!. I know a supplier of the belly skids, if you need spare ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Krang Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 I think you're right MrSpitfire. I don't think I've taken my Fusion out more than 3 times since getting the Weasel. I'm all belly skidded up at the moment, thanks anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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