Going old school

[Andy Butler]

Well the Quaker Flash and HK Phoenix 2000 are ready to be flown so my mind flitted about for another project and landed on an old, uncovered but built Balsa Cabin Rhapsody 100" electric glider. The wings are fine and in need of a bit of a sand and covering. The fuselage was taken down, hoovered to remove cobwebs and inspected. Now bearing in mind this was built many, many years ago, I can't believe I had built a banana. This wasn't a little bit out, it was a massive, jurassic, megalithic banana of such monstrous proportions I had no choice but to put it out of it's misery. And no, I won't be posting any photographs.

So did I have the plan to build another fuselage? A rummage around in my stack of plans came up with the required drawing, albeit cut from the full size plan but no matter. I have some sheets of 1/8" x 4" balsa so .....let's build a retro, slab sided, built from proper wood electric glider fuselage that was last constructed from this plan in the last century.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Andy, surely you can blame the curved fruit issues on many years of storage whilst uncovered....the wood will have absorbed moisture & warped.....it was straight as a die when it left your board I'm sure.......

Interesting model....I recently rescued my Balsa Cabin Sonata from the loft to throw off a big hill sometime......it must be over 30 years old.....

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Hmmmm, wonder where my old Sonata E is? Might have a rummage..

Or was it a Serenade? It was the smaller one, does anyone know?

Edited By Chris Bott - Moderator on 16/08/2012 16:01:42

[Olly P]

Hmm...and my Hi Fly will be ready shortly - I feel some retro glider guiding coming....

Olly

[Andy Butler]

Steve,

I would build it first - might fly a little better

The Balsa Cabin range all flew exceptionally well. The Sonata and Sonata E were both around 78", the Rhapsody is the electric powered 100" and the Fantasia was the unpowered version (with the same wing IIRC). The Serenade was, I think, about 64" and powered with an .049 or similar. I still have a Sonata kit in the workshop too. Going to hang on to that I think.

It will be good to get this built using a modern brushless / Lipo set up. The original had a Speed 600 and 2.8 to 1 gearbox with a 12 x 10 folding prop and 7 or 8 sub c nicads. Had a wing loading similar to that of the Titanic.

Next - cutting into the wood.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[fly boy3]

Nice idea Andy, but I have often thought that modern designs may result in a more efficient flying model. I love the retro look and flying qualities of the Ben Buckle type models, but I also wonder as the old designs are good, but may be bettered by modern thinking. Could be well off the mark with this one pal. Cheers

Edited By fly boy3 on 16/08/2012 19:52:55

[Andy Butler]

FB3 you may well be right, modern technology and materials are at the very forefront of what we do, I remember my first radio set was a four channel RCS system with servos the weight and size of half a house brick and yet now, at least in the Phoenix I've got 6 metal geared micro's each rated at 2.5Kg torque for a tiny fraction of the cost in real terms.

However there's just something very satisfying about hacking lumps of wood and turning out a model that flies well and that you enjoy. It won't outperform a modern moulded missile but that for me is part of the charm.

[fly boy3]

Hi Andy, I totally agree with you re the hacking of wood as you say. Our friends across the pond have a saying i agree with, " Wood flies good". I like it. Cheers

[edwards flyboy]

Funny how things seem to happen all at once I had a built and covered Sonata E . hanging up in the shed ,this was finished to ARTF. It must have been more than 15 years ago . I recently glued it all together and it looks great,Now then what to replace that speed 600 eith i,m sure the nce point will be interesting as the lipo can go right behind yhe motor, will keep you posted

[Andy Butler]

Well I've cut into some wood at last. Cut the fuselage sides and a kit of parts, tail plane, fin and rudder and some other odds and ends from 1/8" sheet. I've run out of 1/4" square so I'm waiting on a largish order from SLEC before I can do any more.

I have an EMP 3542 1000KV brushless motor and a 60A ESC already so I'm thinking of using them, probably overkill but I can always prop it down a bit. I also have a Keda 2217 860KV motor that will produce about 220watts on an 11x 6 folding prop. I'll have to see what the all up weight is to decide between the two.

I should be cracking on with this once the wood arrives. It is a very simple build and identical to the Sonata of which I've built one or two (6 at the last count and a kit in the workshop). I managed to build one in a weekend once - and that was using PVA!

[Andy Butler]

Well SLEC delivery was last weekend and I also dug out my old SLEC fuselage jig that I had in the loft and never got round to assembling. A trip to B&Q had some contiboard sorted, they even cut it free for me, and the self adhesive sheet was carefully stuck down. I now have to drill 92 holes for the captive nuts to go in so the angle brackets can be used anywhere on the jig. The captive nuts were all a bit rusty and nasty so I ordered a pack of 100 BZP items for £3 odd from Ebay. So now I'm waiting for them.

The Keda 2837 motor I ordered from GS arrived and was in a shocking state. I did leave a review on the website so won't bore you with it. I've now ordered the same Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 2836 1050KV as I have in the pheonix 2000, a really beautifully made, high quality motor that will spin an 11 x 6 or 7 without breaking sweat. I've got a 40A ESC with it too so should be nice and light, even with a 3s 2200mAh Lipo. So I'm waiting for that too.

Edited By Andy Butler on 30/08/2012 15:52:07

[Andy Butler]

Well the bits I needed turned up on Friday so the jig is made and building continues. Some Photo's for your delectation and delight;

Small but perfectly formed - Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 2836 1040KV.

The wings from the original build - just need a good sanding and then covering.

The jig in operation

Back end.....

Front end.

Nice and straight.

[Mark Powell 2]

fly boy3

Modern versus old. I have thought about this too. But looking at the KK Falcon thread, 90 inches or so span, flies fine on a four stroke 50 or less. Others are similar. Today a lot are designed for build simplicity, by ourselves or the 'Asians'.Straight wings, square tips, etc. And a lot of sheet construction which makes them heavy, and no stronger. Few can be bothered to build up a tailplane. Quick results versus performance. Even the relatively crude and 'budget' late 1940's KK Junior 60 is a revelation.

And a typical modern 'real' light aircraft has an inferior performance to a WW1 SE5. And it is not due to 2 or 4 people rather than one. But that is another issue.

[fly boy3]

HI Mark, I totally agree with you. I have a 30years + old Super Scorpion, flies on as 32 MDS. A wonderfull flyer, and draws comments from club members every time it flies. Cheers

Edited By fly boy3 on 01/09/2012 20:10:53

[Andy Butler]

Well I was looking at this last night and decided that I couldn't live with the front former / motor mount. I didn't have any 1/8" birch ply so I used lite ply but somehow it just didn't look as if it was up to the job. I had visions of the motor pulling the front out and taking the receiver and servo's with it!

I had some 3/16" birch ply so I made another motor mount from that and surgically removed the lite ply one and epoxied the new one in. Now this one I'm much happier with. The manipulation of the front end left it feeling a little weak so I'm going to add a 1/16" ply doubler in the front section back to the front of the wing seat former so that should sort that out. That's what I love about building either from a kit or plans, things evolve as you go through it and you can add, take out or modify just about anything to get it exactly how you want it.

A (fair) bit of sanding and it should be about ready to cover.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

You've done the right thing Andy....Liteply isn't up to the job.....we tend to think of electric as "less powerful" than IC because of the smooth power & lack of vibration.....electric motors do tend to produce more low down torque & swing larger props than IC & need if anything a more rigid mounting....

[bouncebounce crunch]

I like the advise here, as i am moving a couple of old models to electric as the prices are reducing and dont want to see them suffer unless it is my thumbs.

bbc.

[Bob Cotsford]

I built a Flair Sunrise a couple of years ago which I electrified. Modern mini servos and 2.4, LiPo and 2815 brushless, Fibafilm covering - it went off like a rat up a drainpipe, it was easy to get the wings fluttering though. It's limit was really mild breezes, it was just too slow for the average British summer day. On a calm evening it was in it's element though. Stripping a plastic gear in a micro servo on rudder saw it bite the dust.

[Miketgd]

I have recently complete a Flair Sunrise - my first built-up kit in 30 years! Made a few mistakes as I had to relearn how to read a plan and make sense of the instructions. No laser-cut parts in this kit! However it flies well and will be good practice for the next two larger soarers at 118" and145".

Logo was photocopied:

and converted to:

[Andy Butler]

I bought some red transparent covering film from Giant Shark which looks like good stuff but doesn't seem to like sheeted strutures as it changes to a very dark colour when ironed down but the rest of it stays the original colour. I'll use it on the wings but I've just ordered 5m of white solarfilm from gliders and I'll use the on the fuselage and tail feathers and the transparent red on the wings. Should look quite good.

While I was at gliders website, I ordered a pair of servoless airbrakes. Not cheap but this is a 100" model and could take a bit of getting down. The Fantasia (100" pure glider from the same stable) would float on for ever so these should make landings slightly less fraught.

[Andy Butler]

So here is the completed fuselage, covered and ready for radio installation and tail feathers fitting. Some photo's for you;

The fuselage in all it's sleek loveliness,

Tail feathers ready to fit. I added a strip of 1/8" square to each side of the base of the fin to increase the glueing area, as the butt joint on the original was a weak area and many times I had to delay flying after catching it and having to re-glue it.

and balanced in place to complete the look of the thing. Nice.

The colours look a bit dark in the photo's - in the flesh they are quite a bit lighter.

Edited By Andy Butler on 16/09/2012 17:16:08

[Andy Butler]

So she is finished, and I took her out into the garden to run the motor tests and for a photo seeing as she is now complete.

First, at 100" she is not small, but is very light even with the servoless airbrakes - a shade over 2 lbs with the 3s 2200 Lipo installed.

So first the photo's...

And airbrakes out -

and in again.

Using a freshly charged 3300 3s Lipo, on a 11 x 6 folding prop it registered 250 watts at just under 23 amps. I might have to be careful wit the throttle at launch but it should climb fairly quickly. Just the thing for stooging around on those warm summer evenings.

[Andy Butler]

Finally, she flies. A lovely still, warm evening and she was rigged and ready to go. A fellow glider guider offered to take her up so up she went. There was plenty of oomph from the little outrunner and she climbed away at about a 45° angle which I didn't expect. At height, the motor was cut. The glide was a little fast and while control authoirity was a little lacking, performed well enough. The brakes were raised and she came in quite quickly to sort a couple of things out. I moved the battery pack rearwards a couple of inches, increased the throws on the rudder and elevator and moved the airbrakes to the left slider (so easy to do on the A9). Up she went again and what a difference. The glide was much slower, and a lot flatter. The controls were perfect, a click of down and a click of left and there she was flying hands off. By this time the sun was an orange ball on the horizon and she floated around without any signs of coming down. After a some time, it was time to land so the brakes were extended, a handful of up elevator and she literally just stopped and descended pretty much vertically, but very gently. Brakes in again a couple of feet off the deck and just glided gently in. I suddenly remebered why I fell in love with thermalling in the fiirst place. A perfect end to a great flying session. Took two models, flew both and took the them home again in one piece, what could be better?