Walrus free plan

[Jarius]

Just received the Feb 08 issue and eagerly perused the Walrus free plan feature. I have not used Depron before but have some suitable 3mm sheets to experiment with so I might have a go. While reading the article I came across something I did not understand. The article states that the full size Walrus used two twin blade props bolted together and this could be replicated on the model by fitting two 6x4 twin blade props or a single four blade 6x2 could be used. Is this a misprint and if so which pitch is correct or have I got the prop pitch thing all wrong. Prior to this I would have assumed that two 6x4 props bolted together would give the same thrust/airspeed as a four blade 6x4.   Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

[Mike Rolls]

It must be a misprint. As quoted it makes no sense.

Mike

[Tim Mackey]

Slightly disappointing to see Cyril is still listing the motor to use as a CK, just as in the triplanes of a few months back. CK motors have been out of business for ages. Makes you wonder just how old some of these submitted plans really are.

[Dead-stick]

Quote: ''Makes you wonder just how old some of these submitted plans really are.''

What does it matter as long folks enjoy the building and flying of the plane?

  I'm sure that most people that build from plans are more than capable of working out what hardware they require and actually prefer to choose their own. Personally I always view the hardware installation as a guide only.

[Tim Mackey]

Well there were at least 3 people on this forum who requested information about sourcing a CK motor for the triplanes, and I would expect that appropriate amendments could have been made by Cyril if the plans were recent, and if not, ( as I suspect ) then the magazine itself could have amended them.

As evidenced by these 3 people, not everyone is perhaps as capable as you at working around erroneous data in plans. My reference to the age of the plans was not a criticsm per se, but was relevant to that  part of my first paragraph which is underlined.

[JohnnyB]

Yeah, but what about the propeller issue...........?? 

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Chaps

Spoke to Cyril today, here we go.  

Motors - Cyril now uses an outrunner he got from Robotbrids - 409953 1500Kv £7.95. He uses a 10amp ESC.

Props - The Walrus did use two props bolted together apparently and he uses a 6x2 Graupner four-blader.

Photo captions - He's dictated captions for the build photos that I've added in the gallery, click on each photo to see the caption.

The plan - he thinks we got just one thing wrong in that the outer wing struts don't fit flush and actually protrude through the wing (obvious really I guess)  

[Dave Williams]

Thank you very much David, I found the thread using the second link you gave me. I am a complete muppet regarding building planes and need all the information I can get. Keep asking questions you guys as the answers are invaluable to me.

[wess]

hi all.     looking at the walrus plan i am a bit concerned that the wing fixings only appear to be the 4 ply tongues with the wings attached by 'small screws' and wire clips.

i am not convinced that the wings would not fold up as soon as the fuz. weight became suspended from the wings.

obviously Cyril got the model flying ok as shown in the pics so perhaps i am missing something.

are there some wing restraining rigging threads i have missed?

[Phil Gould]

I am new to any type of building from plans, and I would like to give this a go.

But I still can't see how you curve the depron.

Is there a detailed build thread?

PG

[Phil Gould]

Also, where do I get some pink foam from?

I have some really hard blue foam. But every time I tried to sand that, it just riped chuncks off like stringy cheese. All advice greatly received.

 PG

[wess]

hi Phil.     quite a lot of conversation re. curving depron on the TRIPLANE THREAD... Timbo and Ced and others are debating this subject in detail.    .    i have been building in balsa for yonks but i am also new to depron and this has caused me some effort to handle.   there are various ways of bending the material and Cyril's designs hint but dose not say how he achieves the results he gets on his models.

Also  i have heard of pink foam and would also like to know where to get it.

wess

[Phil Gould]

Well to Day I have been cutting depron,

I have never built from a plan before, so how to get said parts onto depron.

Well I've decided to use a pin. Pinned the outline on to card. Then used the Card as a template.

Worked quite well. Learned on the first cut, that you need a very, very sharp blade. Good job I,ve got some scapels.

I'm trying this plan for a few reasons. Done ARTF and kit balsa but never a plan.

Need to do something while watching the baby. Must be reasonable clean.

So this is ideal.

Now is someone going to give the secreat of Pink foam??

[Kit Carson]

An article the latest (Feb) mag called 'Hail Depron' is worth reading as it is as you guess about using depron. I found the bit about sticking the foam with a hot gun very useful .I tried it out and it does work as Nigel says. It is worth reading. If like me your experience using this material is very limited. 

[Phil Gould]

HELP ON THE PLAN!!!

 What or where is F15?

Is this the fuzz sides?? If so are these made out of 1/32 ply?

Not clear in the mag. build.

Phil

[Phil Gould]

Ok feel a right mug.

Found F15, kindly pointed out by the wife as I pounded over the plan.

Looked at my 6mm depron, to find its pretty well curved now.

The only other thing concerning me is the dihedral and rigging.

Is anyone else building this?

Like to bounce some ideas?

PG

[wess]

hi Phil. I have just started marking out the formers and will be cutting later.

i would say that quite a lot of detail is not shown on the plan and you will have to solve numerous points as u go along.     Kit building can include a lot more useful instructions as to how to get the job done.

however you have started the right way with making card profiles and if Ced and Timbo can come aboard those guys have produced some remarkable building and finshing (just see Ced's gallery and timbo's sopwith on the triplane build thread).

looking at the mag. pics Cyril has obtained a considerable curvature to the wings that i have yet to achieve.  I dont know yet how the dihedral is obtained with the wing attachments as shown.

keep letting us all know how u are getting on.PS you do know u have to use the right glue or your good efforts will desolve before your very eyes!

wess

[Phil Gould]

Thanks Wess,

I've got the right glue, I did an Ikarus SU-27 xxl last week.

Got all the fuzz cut out now. Its just getting the confidence to start.

Looks like its built upside down. The Fuzz sides do not fit the full length of the top deck. Probably F1 block takes on more of the bow than shown

 Phil

[wess]

hi Phil......i am just ahead of you with fuz glued together by 90%..........i found same thing the sides are short to allow for that rare pink foam bulkhead..i have not yet found.......u r right with the fuz upside down (refer walrus build pics.)....... getting the fuz sides glued to the base former i found difficult as the piece behind the cabin  stops you fixing it down on the building board.     I decided asa temporary measure to slice these off and then found it easy keep the whole thing flat on the building board whilst the sides are attached.

As these side pieces support the wing it is important to reinforce with additional braces etc when u reattach them.

another thing. unless your cutting out of the formers is perfect u may find that they either stick out preventing the sides contacting the base piece or the opposite and they are too small and will not reach the sides.......best to ensure they are a good fit edge to edge  before u glue the lot up.

wess

[Phil Gould]

Thanks Wess for the heads up.

Building on hold while I'm at work, I do 12 hrs 4 on 4 off.

Next build date is Thursday. She who has to be obied is off shopping with the mother taking baby as well.

The pure joy,,,,,,, the thought of quite building is almost overwelming.

Phil

[Phil Gould]

Now I have seen the bending method.

Do you bend the depron before cutting out the wings or after??

[David Ashby - Moderator]

I would say after cutting Phil...

[wess]

hi all........anyone building Cyril's walrus?.....i am just completing the fuz and attempting to sort the wing fixings out plus some mods. to the elevator control system..........also does anyone know where pink foam comes from?????/

wess

[Murray Moore]

Hi Wess,

When you come to painting your Walrus you might like to consider two schemes used by Australian aircraft.

The first is all silver. These had tail numbers A2-1 to A2-24 painted on the rear of the fuselage just in front of the tailplane. I think that they also had the tail numbers painted under the wing as 'buzz' numbers but would require more research to verify. ('Buzz' numbers were so called because it made the identication of low flying aircraft possible. The most recognisable 'buzz' numbers to modern day modelers, although I don't think that anybody ever knew that they were such, are the 'FU-xxx' numbers on the sides of American Sabres.)

The next option is the all yellow aircraft held by the RAAF Museum. This aircraft is RAF tail number HD874. You can see it by 'Googling' RAAF Museum (or typing www.defence.gov.au/RAAF/raafmuseum) then clicking on 'Research' from the masthead banner, then Series 2 aircraft serial numbers, then A2 Seagull V (Walrus).

Not many people in England today would know that the original Walrus design and manufacture was commissioned by the RAAF, subsequently 24 examples were delivered between 1935 and 1937. They were called Seagull V and were used on Royal Australian Navy ships (manned by RAAF pilots and maintained by RAAF mechanics) as well as for general duties with the RAAF.

At the onset of WWII additional aircraft were manufactured for the RAF who called them 'Walrus'. 37 of these were allocated to the RAAF, all retained their RAF tail numbers one being HD874. At the end of the war all Seagulls and Walruses (spelling?) were disposed except HD874 which was sent south with the Australian Antartic Expedition where it was wrecked in a gale in 1948. The wreck remained there for many years before being recovered and brought back to Australia where the RAAF Museum restored it to static display condition.

These two colour schemes would be different to that used by Cyril Carr, although may have a weight penalty.

I am looking forward to receiving the February issue of RCM&E in about 3-weeks time so that I can see the plan of the Walrus. I may build it but first have to get the DR1 out of the way. 

Regards

Murray

[wess]

hi Murray......thanks for all that info.....looks like u must be the antipodean expert on the Walrus...............i did not know that any mail still went to OZ by steamship!... hurry up with that triplane as u will need plenty of time to enjoy yourself flying the bird and also make time to start on the Walrus.....

Cyril has designed the Walrus in such a way that it is

1/ easier to make than the triplanes and but harder in other respects

2/ omitted in my opinion some important construction instructions such as the elevator control system that looks very iffy and the wing fixing with tiny screws and wire clips.....i have made some mods in these depts (sorry Cyril) ........probably his design would work out as he is a first rate designer and very experienced but if it flys as good as the Sopwith i would be verry pleased.....when i get more ahead i will post some pics....i will look up those color options u mentioned.  have u found any pink foam?

wess