Set up for NH Tucano 45"

[Øyvind Sørlie]

I am building a Nigel Hawes Tucano 45". It should end up with a auw some where between 1500 and 1900 grams.

Is there some experienced buliders or flyers that could give me some advice about the power train.

MVVS or Hacker prefered. 

[Tim Mackey]

Thats quite heavy....4 lbs in old money !

For this type of model aim for around 80 -100 watts per pound for reasonable performance. Therefore get a motor which will be happy at 400 Watts, on the chosen battery and prop.

An AXI 2820/10 with a 3s LiPo and a 10X6 prop should pull around 30A which is OK on this particular motor, and equals around 300Watts plus. For even more oomph, you go up to a 10 X 8.

MVVS ? - very nice motors Try a 3.5 1200 on a good 3s pack, and a 10 x 8 should pull around 36- 38 Amps, and therefore just about reaches the golden 400 watts.

John Emms at Puffin stocks the MVVS motors and AXIs, and is well worth a call - always helpful and very knowledgeable. 

[Øyvind Sørlie]

Thanks.

By the way do you have any experience with Deans conectors compared to the usual 3,5 mm gold connectors.

What limitations is there in amps at the Deans? 

[Tim Mackey]

Deans are very popular in the USA, and seem to be well built - but beware the clones which are not. One reason I avoid them is that the plastic body of the unit itself is prone to melting slightly if one holds the soldering iron on for a little too long! But, in summary.....they are good if you can find the genuine article.

Dont know the current limit...probably good to 80 A or so but heres a link to the manufacturer.

DEANS

[Alistair Taylor]

Hiya

I've been flying one of the NH Tucanos for a while. You didn't say if you were using Lipos or old skule NICad/NiMH cells.

If you do use Lipos, you will quite possibly have to add lead to the nose to get the balance right.

I used NiCads and NiMHs and with these dirty great big heavy lumps the balance is easily achievable

In mine I used an Axi 2820/10, and on 10 cells an 11x7 prop, on 8 cells a 12x8 (when I could be bothered to change props - it flew fine on 8-cells with the 11x7). I have not a scooby what the current draw on my specific setup was (Hacker Master 40-3p ESC), but this setup was used by NH in the original Tucano and drew over 35 amps on ten cells, giving over 400 watts, and exhilarating performance.

On ten cells you can launch one-handed, with nose pointing up 45 degrees, and it will just keep going up. Giving you plenty of height to trim/relax very quickly. It does glide for ever though, so don't try to fly it off a tennis court. Side-slipping with bootfuls (thumbfulls?) of  rudder does help slow it down for landing, as you'd expect with the high cockpit profile.

HTH Ali

[Øyvind Sørlie]

Thanks to you all.

My plan was to use 3700mah 3s lipos,but if this means i have to add som dead weigt up front, i have to reconsider.

I feel that to choose nimh is to take a step bacwards, i  want to use the equipment in a later project.

Using Lion`s will add some more weight and also be more crash resistant. Or as an alternative go for a heavier motor that i can use in a bigger model later,but since there is nothing like a free lunch ,I suspect that some of you more experienced E-flyers , will tell me a lesson.

Maybe i am wrong,but if I choose a heavier and more powerfull motor , power source, prop, KV, this would give the same performance and flight time,and only give the weight penalty i will need up front.

By the way, Norway did a double victory in Ski biathlon world championship to day!

[Tim Mackey]

Why not just double up on your battery capacity - assuming you have the room, that is one of the advantages of LiPo  -you can parallel up as many packs as you like to keep increase capacity and therefore duration.

[Øyvind Sørlie]

Probably a better solution.

I think i will choose a motor that gives 400w without to much stress on 3s lipos.

Then finish the model as light as possible, and then deside on powerpac. when i know the weight, needed op front to balance.

To assure the best flying capabillities i will keep it as light as possible.

[Tim Mackey]

Well just bear in mind that 400 watts from a 3s Lipo requires a current of around 38Amps - so choose your ESC wisely as well as the motor and ensure you have sufficient capacity in the batteries.

EG: a 3000 mahr pack will only last approx 4.6 minutes at WOT.

[Alistair Taylor]

You could allways add an undercarriage - this will put more weight in the nose. The details are included in the plan if I remember rightly.

Also - in the original plan, the firewall behind the motor is positioned to allow room for a geared speed 600 - which is nearly three times the length of the Axi and equivalent outrunners. You could do worse than move the firewall closer to the nose, allowing more space for batteries in the nose, and hopefully a better chance of getting the CofG in the right place without needing weight.

Also - be very very fussy about the wood you use on all parts of the tail - go for light light light (I'm sure you know this already) and sand all control surfaces to section, use lightweight snakes, control horns, clevises, hinges etc.

Oh yes - the plan does not really show this, but make two holes in the bottom of the nose in the scale position for the Turboprop exhausts. You can then add scale-ish copper heating pipe elbows for static display, but more importantly - they allow good circulation of cooling air in flight.

And if you don't fit undercarriage, don't try to belly land on a runway like I did.....

AliT

[Øyvind Sørlie]

 I landed on a Wasp from BRC hobbies Item Name:

WASP C3536 1450Kv (350W) Brushless Outrunner Motor. brc830Item Number:

830

Quantity:

1

Total:

£19.99 GBP

the plan is to use a 3s1p, 40 or 60 amp esc set up  , but i am not sure of the size yet. I got to see what weight that is needed up front .

[Nomadic soarer tries electric]

What a timely exchange chaps, this returnee to slope soaring has just broken his leg ... - I'm afraid work got in the way! So bored with reading, youtube and child minding at 1/2 term I've decided to have a go at this electric lark with a NH 45" Tucarno, tempted by NH's column 'Power for Peanuts'  in the August 2007 issue where he writes positively about his return to NiMhs, so i ordered some 8 cell 3700's from Model Power ... as per the article ... but NH makes no mention of the rest of the set up used ... so a call to BRC ended up with a HiModel 2814-5T (300-400W) 1660 Kv outrunner & Fly - 33A ESC being purchased as recommended ... the 1660 Kv being necessary to provide sufficient rpm from the recomended 8x4 or 8x6 props supplied. having almost finished the wing to be removable, I'm about to start the fuselage once I've decided how best to arrange the fire wall to take this motor and I'm a little scepticle about the AUW as the battery weighs in around 540g and how to secure them so they don't burst through the fire wall each time I return to terra firma.

Any one got experience of this set up ... or are you waiting with baited breath to see if it all works!

Jon Hill.

[David Ashby - Moderator]

No particular experience of the set-up John although I've used HiModel gear without a problem. You'll be fine

[Mike Adams]

I've been flying N.H. 45" Tucano for over three years now. I use an AXI 28 20 10, an MGM 40Amp speedo, a 3S 4000 lipo ans an APC 11 x 7 prop. I use two Hitec 81MGs for the ailerons, (one each), a similar for the elevator and a little 55 for the rudder. Mine has had the u/c from the beginning. As has been posted, wood selection is vital: I take electronic scales to the model shop. It is a classic and I fly it virtually every weekend: gawd knows how many hours it's done or Kms it's travelled. It is a totally predictable model. No bad habits and fully aerobatic, tho' not 3D. Rudder is very powerful and taxying is easy. As you can see I like it very much. I fit the lipo edgewise with a couple of extra formers scooped out down the middle to have it fit. I keep the lipo well forward and have NO C.G. problems. I did mine in the French Airforce trainer scheme: very, very visible.

[Mike Adams]

Oh, and a few afterthoughts: Following vibration problems after many hours of flight the front mount for the AXI began to detach from the sides, top and underside. Frequent regluing, and even carbon fibe tape reinforcement didn't last, so I bought a back mount, and made a new former for it from good quality 5mm ply and glued it further back in the fus. with triangular balsa backing. (Prop is in the same place as before) Result is a solid fix: several months' flying and no problems. T'other diversion from the plan was to continue the L.E. strip all the way to the tip, and have the cross grained tip behind that. This avoids the snapping tip syndrome. And a final one, so far, is to have a cooling hole in the rear side of the canopy: easy for me, since mine is balsa block, but feasible with a clear plastic one, if you're careful...

[Tony Charnock]

I fly my Tucano on an Axi 2820.10 with an 11X7 prop, 3s 3200ma lipos and a 40amp Hi-model ESC. Radio is Futaba FF9 with Graupner 2.4ghz module & Rx. It weighs 2lb 15 oz complete with undercarriage. The cooling is provided by an intake in the nose  and the exit is in the hatch under the fuselage behind the wing. I made several holes using a soft-bore tool, air exit must be say about 3X the size of the intake. Before I fitted the u/c I would hand launch it underhand by holding the fuselage below the canopy, a gentle push was all that was required & it would go vertical for a considerable distance. I have calmed it down by fitting a 10X6 prop but it still is quick. Agreat design, love free plans. Tony   

[Tony Charnock]

P.S. I did not need to add any lead up front just move battery to get C.of G. correct. Build light.Tony