Ed Anderson Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Just picked up an HKM Solitaire Plus at an estate sale. Brand new, never been assembled. Anyone have this glider or care to share anything about it? I understand this was a competition F5B glider from the late 90s, early 2000s. **LINK** **LINK** I have a sheet that looks like the one at the second link. It appears to be in German. I have no intention of entering F3B competition. But It looked like it might be fun to set it up at as a warmliner, maybe 150 watts/pound. Appreciate any advice or insights from current or former owners. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I remember one competitor flying a Solitaire in F5B in the 90s, but don't remember much more than that about it. In general though, at that time we were flying with packs of 27 1000 mAh nicads weighing 1100 gms and using big brushed motors. About 1250 watts for an all up weight of around 2.5Kg - so around 225 watts/lb. with the weight reduction possible with modern lipos and brushless you should manage a sparkling performance without any problems. Somewhere around 150 watts/lb should just about get you a vertical climb. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_B Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Over on a German forum last year one person was using the following set up in his Solitaire Plus: Motor; Hacker B50 7L and 6.7:1 gearbox Prop; Hacker 16" x 16" ESC; YEP 150 Battery; 6s (no mention of C rating or capacity) I suspect it gives a wee bit more power than 150W/Lb (), but it shows what the airframe can handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I have used that Hacker setup but with a bigger prop, so would estimate somewhere a bit over 3.5kW for the setup quoted. Weight would probably have been about 1.7Kg depending on batteries, so say between 900 and 1000 watts/lb. In F5B you would normally use something like 2800 to 3000 mAh cells in a 6s pack, with a C rating as high as you can get it as you would be hitting short term peaks of about 100C in flight. I have had transient 100C peaks out of 25C cells without any problems, so it is not something I would worry about too much. As a warmliner it sounds like you shouln't have any problems with the Solitaire Plus - should be a fun model. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Anderson Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 I am curious about the thermal soaring part of the task. I would think these would be bricks in normal trim. Do they really thermal or is it just a matter of crazy fast climb and then glide? I can't imagine these things having much of a glide ratio at that weight and that wing loading. Would you run some thermal camber during the glide portion? Also, why no rudder? Edited By Ed Anderson on 23/03/2015 13:23:40 Edited By Ed Anderson on 23/03/2015 13:25:05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 No rudder for a couple af reasons:- 1) the elevator servo is usually in the fin so it is difficult to find space for a rudder and another servo; 2) they work fine without a rudder so it is just excess weight (and drag) if it doesn't add much. Camber:- With older 2 servo (aileron only) wings with sections like RG14 additional camber is not practical and won't make an awful lot of difference. With modern thin low drag wing sections and 4 servo wings, we do use additional camber in the glide portion (as well as snap flap for turns) as these sections do need it. Overall the modern camber change wings are better, but you would probably only notice the benefits in competiton - not worth worrying about for sport flying. AND of course you can just fit lighter batteries etc. for sport flying giving better soaring with the lower wing loading. Definitely not bricks, and the modern F5B machines do have a very good glide ratio when set up right. I have attached a data log from one of my flights at a competions last year showing the motor runs (purple spikes) and height (green line). You can see the regular motor runs during the "speed" part of the comp followed by the soaring part. Good lift to start with, then hit the sink - just like any other glider . Dick Edited By Dickw on 23/03/2015 14:37:55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Anderson Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Great insights. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Anderson Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Posted by Dickw on 23/03/2015 14:36:52: snip... Definitely not bricks, and the modern F5B machines do have a very good glide ratio when set up right. I have attached a data log from one of my flights at a competions last year showing the motor runs (purple spikes) and height (green line). You can see the regular motor runs during the "speed" part of the comp followed by the soaring part. Good lift to start with, then hit the sink - just like any other glider . snip ... Edited By Dickw on 23/03/2015 14:37:55 Curious, what glider were you flying for that competition? What was the all up weight? Edited By Ed Anderson on 23/03/2015 18:26:41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickw Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 That was a Speedfire 2 weighing in at ~1700 gms ready to fly :- **LINK** Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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