John Howes Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Hi, I wasn't sure which topic to post this in so apologies if it's the wrong one. I've not been a flyer for long and I've just moved up to a Parkzone Artizan from an Eflite Apprentice. The first flight (today) went ok - no crash but the plane is very nose happy. The elevator is mechanically trimmed for neutral and I've pulled the battery back as far as possible (I'm using a 2200mAH pack but it's the same weight as the recommended Eflite 1800mAH). The CG seems to be in the wrong place. Should I add a lot of mechanical up trim to the Elevator or am I missing something. Anyone else have a similar experience? Ironically the Artizan is also nose heavy in the Phoenix flight sim. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon barr Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 My Artizan doesn't seem nose heavy, and flies well. My lipo (2250) sits just over the wing leading edge. I have upgraded the motor, but, if anything, it's heavier that the original, and did not cause any cg problems. I did, however, change the plastic spinner for a Multiplex foam one and move the ESC from under the motor to inside the battery area, which helped reduce the nose weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 According to the manual the CofG for the Artizan should be 3 inches back from the leading edge at the root The first thing to do is get the CoG correct - Where is the balance point with the batteries fitted in the position you have them in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howes Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Posted by simon barr on 24/05/2015 12:32:57: My Artizan doesn't seem nose heavy, and flies well. My lipo (2250) sits just over the wing leading edge. I have upgraded the motor, but, if anything, it's heavier that the original, and did not cause any cg problems. I did, however, change the plastic spinner for a Multiplex foam one and move the ESC from under the motor to inside the battery area, which helped reduce the nose weight. So your Artizan is fine ..... because you completely rearranged the internal design! lol My Artizan was a BNF with RX already installed approximately where you've put it, but the manual shows the battery pushed far forward ahead of the wing. I think that's wrong. I intend to do some experiments moving the Battery back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howes Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Posted by Dave Hopkin on 24/05/2015 12:47:46: According to the manual the CofG for the Artizan should be 3 inches back from the leading edge at the root The first thing to do is get the CoG correct - Where is the balance point with the batteries fitted in the position you have them in? I think the manual is wrong. The CG is approximately where the manual says, but the plane is very nose heavy and just wants to dive. It also noses over on landing. It's trimmed just fine. I think the battery should be on top of the wing rather than pushed forward near the motor. I just wondered if anyone else has had this issue. In essence I think the CG should be more like 4 to 5 inches back. I'm going add a velcro strip inside so I can experiment with battery position. It's a real shame, as otherwise it flys really well - very aerobatic. Maybe they upgraded the motor after the manual was written, or didn't factor in the weight of the ferrite tube on some of the wires. Who Knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon barr Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I don't know why you are having so much trouble... Even before I upgraded the motor, it was easy to adjust and get the balance correct, and it flew very well.... And I have never had it nose over on landing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howes Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Posted by simon barr on 25/05/2015 08:11:25: I don't know why you are having so much trouble... Even before I upgraded the motor, it was easy to adjust and get the balance correct, and it flew very well.... And I have never had it nose over on landing.... Me neither! I have tried flying the Artizan in the Phoenix flight sim where it also appears to be nose heavy requiring either piles of up-elevator or masses of trim for level flight. Does it need a lot of up elevator trim? I don't want to compromise the aerobatic performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Jarvis Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I have been flying my Artizan for almost a year without problem. I use 3 makes of 2200 mah batteries and need to push them as far forward as possible to balance and it fly's just fine. I will say the balance point seems to be very critical and took me quite a few flights to get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howes Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Posted by Alan Jarvis on 25/05/2015 09:05:00: I have been flying my Artizan for almost a year without problem. I use 3 makes of 2200 mah batteries and need to push them as far forward as possible to balance and it fly's just fine. I will say the balance point seems to be very critical and took me quite a few flights to get it right. Ah. That's good to know. Sounds like I just need a bit of trial and error. Both my previous planes have flown flat straight out the box so it's the first time I'm needing to do any work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamWh Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 John have you tried to balance the plane upside down when finding where the CoG is? If the CoG is a bit above the bottom surface of the wing then balancing it with fingers/pivots underneath can be problematic and hard to get accurate. Sorry if you have already done this - I know its caught me out before. Of course if the CoG is between the top and bottom surfaces of the wing (being a mid-wing plane) this might not help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon barr Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Don't go by what happens on the sim, John... That's just a computer program. You just need to position the battery so that the model balances.... With such a deep canopy, try balancing inverted, you may find it easier. The CG isn't critical... if it is too far forward you will need up trim, and if it is too far back, the model will become a bit more lively. Get it around where it should be, and all will be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howes Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Posted by simon barr on 25/05/2015 10:08:17: The CG isn't critical... if it is too far forward you will need up trim, and if it is too far back, the model will become a bit more lively. Get it around where it should be, and all will be good. Thanks for your help Simon. Sometimes it's just good to talk over these things with someone more experienced. I've just been out for some test flights, trying the battery in different places and adjusting the trim. It seems that (a) the battery was slightly too far forward, but only by 5mm or so, and (b) I needed to dial in a few turns of up trim (so small you can't actually see any difference). Eureka! No longer nose heavy! It's quite difficult to tell if she's flying dead flat as it was quite windy when I just went out (in fact she might be very slightly tale heavy!!), At least I know how to sort things now. Still nosing over on landing but I think that's due to the fairly long grass on the playing field. I've put bigger wheels on my Appentice to help, so I'll be doing the same with the Artizan. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon barr Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Goodo... Glad you've got it sorted now, John. A good way to test if the CG is about right, is to fly inverted straight and level. If the CG is right, you should need just a slight forward pressure on the elevator stick to keep the nose from dropping. Everyone is different, so just set it up to how you are comfortable... and enjoy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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