F3-RES

[MattyB]

Posted by Martyn K on 15/07/2016 07:08:11:

Matty

There are a small number of ARFs available for this class, for example the RESi also available as a kit.

I have some sympathy with your views, however, we are not designing a new class of glider, we are introducing (or trying to) an already established and proven class. We need to have some consistency, or otherwise why bother with rules at all.

Fair enough, but at the outset of this thread the stated goal was that this is a "New beginners class" to encourage fresh blood. Based on my experience in the ISA (Ivinghoe Soaring Association) where we have flat field competition based on unmodified foamies I am struggling to see how the rules as they are will achieve that aim. Do you have any info from Germany about how effective this class has been in encouraging new participants?

The ISA has about 150 members of which 8-12 participate in these comps. This is actually a big increase over most of the attempts we've had to get people engaged with comps on the slope in the past 15 years! Even this level of participation has required us to keep rules to an absolute minimum - we use only a timed motor run (no altitude switch), no airframe mods are allowed beyond uprated linkage hardware and only stock powertrains or powertrains with equivalent performance are allowed. Turn up with anything "hopped up" and you can expect a tap on the shoulder to let you know your motor run in the next round will be reduced. All this keeps costs down and encourages participation.

By contrast the ARF you link to does not appear to be available in the UK yet, and is going to cost a minimum of £250 by the time servos, RX, bungee and P&P are included. A Radian is only £140, is easier to operate and lots of sport flyers have them already, reducing the cost at maximum to that of an altitude switch. Had the ISA used the F3-RES rules rather than our own variant of BMFA esoaring I doubt we would ever have had enough entrants to run a comp. For this reason if you are really wanting to encourage maximum participation I think you need to open up some kind of equivalence formula to allow foam e-powered ARFs to compete alongside the scratch and kit built bungee launched gliders that the established thermal pilots will want to fly.

Posted by Steve Houghton 1 on 15/07/2016 07:54:14:

MattyB - There is already the esoaring series, with two classes of electric powered gliders.

1. Any electric powered glider up to 4 metres wing span

2. Any electric powered glider up to 2 metres wing span

And this includes foam models.

Yep, I am well aware of that class but it is not run on the postal format being suggested here - competitors need to travel to participate, a major barrier to newcomers. From what I understand after starting strongly when it was first introduced participation in the beginner 2m class has tapered off to ~10-12 in 2016. The fact this class is postal and can be carried out at local club fields or even in a park addresses that, but I still think the requirement for the model to be conventionally constructed and bungee launched will stifle any enthusiasm amongst more casual participants such as myself who do not have the time to build.

Anyway, I do wish you luck with it and will be watching from afar - I might even participate if you let foamies in!

Edited By MattyB on 15/07/2016 10:03:53

[Martyn K]

Posted by MattyB on 15/07/2016 09:54:07:

Posted by Martyn K on 15/07/2016 07:08:11:

Matty

There are a small number of ARFs available for this class, for example the RESi also available as a kit.

I have some sympathy with your views, however, we are not designing a new class of glider, we are introducing (or trying to) an already established and proven class. We need to have some consistency, or otherwise why bother with rules at all.

Fair enough, but at the outset of this thread the stated goal was that this is a "New beginners class" to encourage fresh blood. Based on my experience in the ISA (Ivinghoe Soaring Association) where we have flat field competition based on unmodified foamies I am struggling to see how the rules as they are will achieve that aim. Do you have any info from Germany about how effective this class has been in encouraging new participants?

 

Edited By MattyB on 15/07/2016 10:03:53

Matty

I have been speaking to the DAeC rep who is responsible for this class. (In Germany, each class has a nominated owner - which I think is a brilliant idea). Its very successful and although introduced as an introductory class, its become so popular that experts and advanced flyers are now taking part.

and

Edited By Martyn K on 15/07/2016 10:17:43

[Steve Houghton 1]

There seems to be a general dropping of interest in most forms of glider competition, probably mostly down to cost which make it prohibitive to the majority of modelers. I for one wouldn't dream of spending upwards of £1k on a model, and in the world of F3J/F5J, the guys who do take part have three of these. Either they must be sponsered or they have more money than sense IMO.

Model flying generally is made up of mostly mature men, whose children have grown up and have more disposable income, and I am one of these. To attract kids to the hobby, and competition, there has to be an entry level that is affordable to all with venues that are reasonably close to home

In my own area, (SE Wales) F3F is king, but unless a national event is taking place, the local organisers struggle for participants, and I see them posting on the local Facebook page, asking people to come along and fly whatever it is they have out of sheer desperation for numbers. I personally wouldn't take part as I have no interest in F3F.

Travelling is another issue. I wouldn't want to travel more than 2½ - 3 hours from home as I already take part in other events which involve travelling and accomodation. So a one day event only.

But I would be happy to take part in a glider comp that involves cheap models, say under £200 inc electrics, or hi-start launches, where postal entries are accepted. There would of course have to be rules regarding this, maybe including photographic evidence, a signed witness statement also to verify that all the info submitted is true, etc.

[MattyB]

Posted by Martyn K on 15/07/2016 10:17:18:

I have been speaking to the DAeC rep who is responsible for this class. (In Germany, each class has a nominated owner - which I think is a brilliant idea). Its very successful and although introduced as an introductory class, its become so popular that experts and advanced flyers are now taking part.

Looks good; there are even some faces under the age of 30 participating by the looks of it, amazing! Somehow though I think it will be a lot harder to get people enthused here in the UK unless you can find a compromise to enable participation with foam ARFs, but I wish you luck with it.

[Martyn K]

Thanks Matty

I did ask why it was that in Germany and the USA they have no problem promoting classes like this. In fact, it was noted that in the USA there is more interest - competitive and fun flying - in simple RES gliders than moulded gliders. It was also suggested that the Germans are more advanced (as a model flying body) and better organised than we are and I do think we are quite disparate with diverse pockets of interest - as has been noted above.

Population and major population centres are similar to England/Wales and their road network is similar to ours. It may be that the attraction and advantages of home built model construction has been 'sold' better in Germany and the USA.

Still, I'd rather be an evangelist than a pessimist. At the end of the day, if it doesn't happen then at least I'll have a nice glider I can fly at my local field. If my model is any good, then plans and Laser cut parts can be made available.

Martyn

[Whitmore]

Hullo chaps,

Martyn pointed me in the direction of this thread so I thought I drop by.

We will be running a 'postal' duration Challenge on the BARCS forum as soon as we have a few models flying. This is a proven format - the DLG version has run for some years. The idea is that you post a time and if it remains unbeaten for 14 days you win the round. If someone else posts a better time, the round continues for another 14 days. A new round resets the time to zero. The competition will be open to any 2 metre glider, foamie, mouldie or F3-RES as long as it is launched by the prescribed bungee Hi-Start.

If participation warrants it, we will split the challenge into Open 2m and F3-RES classes. The idea is that a postal challenge will provide a focal point for those interested in 2m and F3-RES flying and if there is interest we hope to run some actual F3-RES competitions next summer.

The F3-RES class is developing a bit of a buzz. It's certainly more accessible than the hi tech mouldie dominated classes, at least in cost terms. It's perhaps not a total beginners class, rather something that would appeal to the general modeller who would like to dabble in relaxed competition. There's also not really anywhere else that an own designed, own built model can be competitive. So the purpose of this initiative is not to increase participation (although we hope it will) it's simply that the models are pretty darn cool

Jon