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DX6i AR6200 Issues


Matt Miller
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Hi all,

I wonder if anyone else has had any issue like this:

Firstly, I had an Arising Star Trainer fitter with a 4.8v pack, AR6100 receiver using a DX6i.  This plane ended up in a corn field, nose first.  We believe the battery pack failed for this to happen and lost signal.

Secondly, which is what I am confused about.  I have a new trainer, Boomerang by Seagul.  I have fitted a new AR6200 and have an fitted a 5 Cell 6v RX pack.

All working and flying ok for about 3 flights until momentarily the ailerons stops responding.  Just a short time, literally 1 secod or so and then the plane jilted quickly to turn, i.e the ailerons come back into control.

Checked everything over and visually all ok.

Another flight yesterday evening, all ok until the plane starts doing loops by itself.  Almost as if I am giving full up elevator quickly.  I have Dual rates set on the DX6i so it should never of been possible to do this.  At the time, I was pulling up very gently to climb but it seemed to pull up so sharply a couple of very tight loops were performed unintentially.

Yet again, the controls went back to normal and all seemed ok.  This did happen a couple of time in a previous flight but wasnt severe enough to think there was a fault, maybe a thermal or something kicking the tail down.

Landing was ok, ish, coming into land and as i went to flare etc it was too much and climbed again slighty.

Now, when we got the plane back to the pits we checked all linkages and rods and all were solid as a rock.  Even the RX pack under load was still 6.1 volts.  The TX battery was at 6v too.

We checked all servos and these were all solid and even tried holding the elevator while moving the stick.  There was no slack at all.

 So, the question is, is there something wrong with my DX6i or AR6200?  I'm seriously thinking about going backto 35Mhz or changing to Futaba.

 Anyone else had simular issues?

Thanks,

Matt

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Well to answer you in reverse as it were......

Nope never had these issues.

Your choice of course to return to 35Mhz or switch horses mid race - but you would be the first to do so that I know of

Is there something wrong with your DX6i - I dont know...does it behave alright with other models / receivers?

Ditto the AR6200 - however I note you have also had a problem ( operator error ) with a 6100 previously - have you a friend with a Spektrum tr who could do a temporary bind and see how the AR6200 behaves.

I am afarid you are into the usual scenario of thorough testing and elimination. Every part of the installation needs to be eliminated - one at time. Did you do a range check before flight? Simply fitting a 6v pack will NOT on its own prevent a problem - its the capoacity of the battery and its ability to deliver that power at the rate required thats important ( see the little piece by Graham Ashby in this months mag on exactly that point)

If the receiver suffered a brown out due to power drop, then your rcvr LED would be blinking - was it ?

Do you have your tr aerial orientated correctly ( 90 degree to horizontal ) to avoid the doughnut of death?

Are you SURE the model is correctly balanced and trimmed. 

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Hi

Not sure if Timbo noticed this but you say  'The TX battery was at 6v too' . that's seems very low even 9V is lower then i would use on my Dx7 ,most Tx's warn you when battery is at 9V to charge them back up they should be around the high 10v to 11v mark when you first switch it on, first flight of the day

Rob

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Dx6 voltage is fine at 6v Rob, the system only uses 4 batteries. Timbo is spot on intermittent faults are the worse it has to be broke to fix. I run the same system as you Matt never had a problem. Start at the beginning and work through, do you use the tx for other models? is it fault free, just because you tested the servo's does not mean they are ok the fault is intermittent are you using extension leads? If its glitched on more than one control I would have a tendency to think battery switch or leads to the rx. Just tried mine and disconnecting the bat leaves the control at the last command position, the thing is reconnecting takes a few seconds to regain contact does this narrow down the problem.

Spectrum do advise fitting the two aerials apposing (one horizontal one vertical) I have tested a friends model and just thrown the rx in temp still flew as on rails.

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I've used this same set-up for months with no problems although on another set-up I had a faulty rx switch which when checking the battery voltage thru the switch showed it to be almost discharged, repalced the switch all was fine, never bought that brand of switch again.
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Hi guys,

 Thanks very much for the replies, I was waiting for a few replies before I answer the questions raised.

1) Are the Receivers at 90 degress to each other?

 Yes, the main receiver is horizontal on the servo tray and the remote rx is vertical on the side of the fuse. 

The antennas of the main rx are about 2cm away from the nearest servo (wonder if there is servo noise?)

2) Is the plane properly trimmed and CG?

Yes, the plane has flown a few times with nearly always great flights but when these problems occur they dissapear as quickly as it appears.

3) Have I performed a range check?

Yes, While in range check mode on the TX I can get to about 30 ish paces before the plane stops responding to control inputs

4) Have I used the same DX6i with another model/rx?

Yes, I have a foamy profile plane with a AR6100e installed, I have never noticed issues with that but then again, I havnt flown that plane since having these current issues.

5) Did I have a brownout / flashing LEDS?

Ok, I cant be sure on this because after I landed the plane after the last issue the person who retrieved that plane turned the switch off before bringing to the pits.

6) Battery pack condition etc

I use a 6V battery pack (Instant Technology) and I have an onboard voltage monitor made by SM Services.  This has two leds, one green and one red.  Before and After the flight the green light stayed  on without any red flicker while moving all of the servos.

I also used an external battery checker made by SM services which has a high load setting, the battery dropped to 6.1v under hi load on the checker (after the flight).

7) Am I using extension leads?

Yes, but only on the Ailerons, the Elevator servo is connected directly to the AR6200 RX

8) Main switch

Same main switch from my first plane that lost total control (suspected dead cel in battery).  I will now measure the voltage the other side of the switch/ replace it!

Something else that I have thought of is that while I was banking, i.e turning left for example I give a little up elavator by pulling back on the stick.  What I noticed is a couple of time the plane banked very sharply/quickly.  This could also be related to the same problem as my un-intentional loops.

I do currently run with dual rates, set very low for my trainer.  The loop that was performed (when glitching or fault occured) was far more tight that I could possibly do on purpose with the current rates set.

 The Elevator servo would have had to fully travel to get that kind of loop etc/

I must also add that the plane never stuck that way after the glitch/issue.  Using the control I could level her out again.

I suppose it was like that elevator control became mega mega sensitive for a split second.

The other thing that I thought of was the main wing.  I am using a Seagul Boomerang which I think is a great plane but the wings are held on by bands.

I replaced the original bands that came with it for the big thick white bands.  I have been using 4 bands to secure the main wing.

Firstly, one either side of the fuse going parallel and then two more going criss cross.

If the main wing was to slightly lift away from the main fuse, could this simulate up elevator?

Thanks for all your help guys!

 Matt

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Snap-Loop, that sounds more like a better description of the problem!

 I will defaintely take a look at this. 

 Tonight I will put the four bands I used back on the plane and see if I can get it to seperate..

Something else which is now making me think along these lines is that when I did perform some large loops, on purpose of course, when I come round the bottom of the loop to level out the plane seemed to want to loop up again on its own. Therefore it wasnt a smooth loop.  Hope that makes sense!

Definately going to check the bands tonight!

Any other thoughts anyone?

 Thanks,

Matt

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Matt I always use 6 bands on my boomerang. They are the thick white bands and are short enough to be under a fair bit of tension when installed. I stretch them to full extent every time before fitting the wing and any sign of nicks, perishing or lack of tension I chuck that band away and replace with a new one. There is no way the wing would lift unless it struck the ground during a crash or a heavy arrival.
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Thanks Bruce...

 In a way, I really want this to be the problem!  Then I can relax about it being anything electrical or mechanical.

Hey Bruce, slilghtly off topic so you might want to PM but have you made your Boomerang into a Tail Dragger?  I keep bending the dam nose wheel on mine and the guys at the club keep telling me to tail drag it!

Gonna buy a undercarriage this weekend.

 Cheers,

 Matt

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Matt,

I can't PM you you have not got PMs enabled in your profile.

Yes I have converted it to a tail dragger there are some pictures on here somewhere showing what I have done. By the time I passed my A test the nose leg was so soft it could hardly hold the weight of the wheel let alone the model.

Sorry just looked at the title of this thread way way waaaaayyyyyy off topic.

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If your problem was bands why did it glitch as you were landing, wishful thinking there I reckon. Timbo, your remarks about the time the rx takes to respond, How long should it take from switching on the rx till it will respond to the tx? The few systems I have seen take a few seconds to pair.

The range check if my memory serves me correctly should be 90 paces I would be concerned if I could only manage 30. Perhaps my legs are a lot shorter

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You must n0t confuse initial switch on and bind time with recovery time following a brown out.

Initial switch on is often also quite long due to the tr having to find and own 2 spare channels. I usually switch on the tr, wait around 10 secs or so, then switch on the receiver, which then binds in around 2- 3 seconds. In a brown out scenario ( which is what was under discussion here ) the old firmware EG: NOT quick connect enabled - would often take between 3 - 6 seconds to re-boot. With Q/C enabled that comes down to a fraction of one second - too quick really to even notice....hence the LEDs flash on the receiver(s) to inform you that you have had a brown out.

PS This does NOT occur if you suffer loss of signal.

PPS The range test should perform up to 30 "paces" around 90 feet ...perhaps this is the confusion on the figures. 

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I see that Brown Out is being discussed but could a brown out initiate a snap loop and then give back control when the loop is over?

 What I mean is, the effect is mega over sensitive up elevator to cause a loop while trying to climb and a sharp bank when trying to bank gradually.

The best I can describe this problem is that its like the elevator is sometimes normal and sometimes, only for split second, well over sensative. 

I checked that bands last night, and with 4 bands on its pretty darn tight on there but if I hold the fuse and push down on once side of the main wing it will lift away from the fuse.

Even with 6 bands on I can still make it move away slightly.

Here's what I propose to do before my next flight.

1) Change the elevator servo for the throttle servo (dont have any spare atm)

2) Use 6 bands instead of 4

3) Move Main RX away from Servos ( Should I do this? the Antennas are 2 or 3 cm away from the thorttle and rudder servo)

4) Any other suggestions?

Thanks to all for your help and suggestions, its really appreciated!

Matt

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I don't think the rubber bands are involved-try holdin the wing and seeing if you can get the fuse to move just by 'bouncing' the wing-bet you can't.

I'm intrigued because we both have Dx6i and we've both suffered involuntary loops...coincidence?

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