Which F3F model?

[Simon K 3]

Hi,

I currently fly various model in Hampshire including Baudis Banana, Steve Drake G-V-60 and Nan Models Alex 2.1 (all Spektrum 2.4Ghz). I am now starting to look at possible first F3F machines (prossibly >2.5m).
I prefer V-tails, as it keeps tail feathers a bit further away from the ground (but does not exclude X tails.

How about a X-model Blade XL or XXL?
I'm not particularly worried about using 2.4Ghz in Carbon fuselages, as I would ensure that I get the aerials outside fuselage and suitably range check before flying. Having said that if anyone has any experience of using 2.4g in this type of model, then your experience would also be welcome.

Any advice / thoughts?

Thanks

Simon

[Slopetrashuk]

You won't be competitive with any of the X model range and you'll soon end up outing anything remotely similar in favour of a better race machine.

You should be worried about 2.4 in carbon fuses. Everybody else is - aerials outside or not. Many manufacturers are now producing 2.4 friendly versions of their models with glass fronts and not carbon. There are still lock out issues though thanks to the masking of the aerials by the carbon in the wing skins.

About the best back for buck racer IMO (especially as you're considering 2.4) is the all glass Acacia 2.

Fast as all hell and tough as old boots.

Contact Ian Mason at Sloperacer.co.uk

[Simon K 3]

Andy,

Shows how good this forum is! I wasn't expecting a response that quickly!

Thank you for your 2.4ghz points. I'll have a think about this a bit further.

if you don't mind a few follow-up questions...
 - What is the difference between Acacia 2 and Acaia 3?
 - Does the Big Bird only come in a X tail, and how strong is the glass version?

Thanks

Simon

[Slopetrashuk]

The Acacia 2 and 3 are completely different models. I have never seen an Acacia 3 that looked happy. I even saw the designer flick his into the hillside at the Rugen Viking Race!

The Big Bird is well strong enough. Unless you're really getting into some serious racing on big hills like the Bwlch you're unlikely to notice the difference between a glass and a carbon model for your first F3F machine anyway.

So far as I know the Big Bird is only available in a cross tail but it's quite the machine and I wouldn't hesitate reccommending one for the price. The cross tail allows for a little better tracking and they are back en vogue at the moment. Doesn't mean they'll stay fashionable though.

Andy

[Tom Satinet]

my acacia 3 is quite cheerful! 

To back up Andy (not that he needs it), you won't get anywhere with an Xmodels. they are not close to the proper f3f racers.

 I think you will struggle to get an Acacia 2 (or 3) at the moment. It's my understanding that mr acacia hasn't been moulding much, if anything, of late (my mate has been waiting for a centre panel for AGES).

If you could get your hands on one, I would say to get a Sting.  A second hand pike or tragi would be worth looking at if one goes up for sale.

There is the javalin from www.sloperacer.co.uk but i don't know what it flies like to be honest.   yes there is the big bird, but i feel you might be wanting something bigger before too long. it really depends on where you fly.

 there was crossfire for sale the other day

[Tom Satinet]

If you haven't already, I would sign up to this mailing list:

 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/F3F/

often a good place to source second hand models (if you want) and of course race dates and other information.  

[Simon K 3]

Thanks for the tip on the List, I'll take a look this evening.

Simon

[Slopetrashuk]

Tom, don't make the mistake of tarring new models with the same brush as replacement parts. The manufacturers (Maslo) are hardly likely to tie up the mould to make your pink and white centre panel say if he's shifting full models out the door as fast as he can go.

Production doesn't stop to patch up broken models until there are no orders for new ones. This is fairly common across the European manufacturers unless they are big enough and active enough to split matching parts from otherwise finished models.

[Tom Satinet]

I'm not mate. I heard that he hasn't made any "whole" acacias for a while.  Maybe just hearsay though.  Best to ask Ian and see what the situation is. the A2 is a good model, as you say. 

[TWilson]

I have a new 2 piece double carbon Acacia 3 for sale on BMFA at the moment if anyone interested. I bought it from Ian Mason who had done a little work on it but never fitted the wing servos.

[Simon K 3]

Carbon Acacia 3 is probably not for me as I'm planning to use 2.4ghz, so not for me at the moment.

Good luck with sale.

[TWilson]

Cheers, It's only the wings that are carbon, the fuz is glass as are most F3F gliders these days. One thing that gets overlooked with 2,4 which is as much of an issue as the carbon blocking the signal, if not more, is that when the receiver voltage drops too low the RX will just shut down, where as a 35mhz will get carry on going with the odd glitch and weak servos, so you may want to look into using a LiPo with a regulator. I have gone down this route on 3 of mine so far and can recommend it.

[Simon K 3]

Normally I use 5 cell (6v) batteries 2.4ghz and spektrum receivers with Quick connect in my gliders and ic models and not had a problem.... yet!

You're using Lipo / regulator in your f3f machines? Which lipo / regulator?

[TWilson]

I started using a Duralite and 2 x 2s 1200ma packs in my Wizard, but as size became an issue went over to Medusa BECs running 2 of the biggest 2s packs I can fit in the model, doubling up gives a little security and greater capacity in a smaller space.

[steve streetly]

could enyone advise me about what transmitter to use for f3f  i was thinking of JRpcm9x11

[Tom Satinet]

a JR 9x2 will be fine for F3f. 

you won't get a 5 cell pack in most f3f planes these days. well not without creating some sort of dog-leg pack.

[Slopetrashuk]

Thats a bit of an over generalisation Tom. I use 5 cells in all of mine except for the very tight (narrowest F3F fuz onthe market) Freestyler 3.

A 9xII will do but I ditched it for graupner software years ago and have never looked back.

Andy

[Slopetrashuk]

Oh now I'm just jealous.......

[Simon K 3]

A quick update...

Well against my wife's better judgment of doing some more research and waiting and seeing what else turns up (well mine really), I went out and bought an Acacia 2.
  
I bought it from Ian, whilst waiting for the 65mph winds on top of the Bwlch on Sunday to abate (which it unfortunately didn't happen).

It’s got a few little paint chips around the outer panel join where the model came out of the mould, but nothing I can’t sort out myself.

With regards to the fuselage, I didn’t realize quite how bulbous the nose was (large enough for two standard size servos). It looks a little out of place, until you put the wings on. Think I could probably fit two of my alex inside it!!

Anyway I’m planning on putting futaba 3150 servos in the wings for ailerons and flaps, and either 3150 or 3152 in the fuselage as its large enough. I believe they are up to the job (Comments anyone?)

I was also wondering if anyone had any suggested throws / mixes they would recommend from their experience as a good place to start ? 
I was going to start with the ones on f3x.com - http://www.f3x.com/htdocs/pagestuff/set%20up.htm - (Thanks MattyB, rcgroups).
Reason for asking, is that it would appear you really can’t get very much up flap (though I don't think I should really need much).

Anyway I'm a happy modeler now!  Who knows if the weather is a bit kinder I maybe able to give it an outing at the next Bwlch F3F meet (assuming I can get a day pass ).

Will let you know how I get on.

Thanks for the help.

[Slopetrashuk]

Drop me your private e mail address. I have a full set up sheet for the Acacia 2.

 I run two Futaba 148's on my V tail but smaller servos will give you a little more room to play with inside the nosecone.

The secret of speedy f3f lies in flying them like you stole them....Don't worry about the bulbous front. It's never slowed an acacia down yet!

You also don't need much down flap so try and avoid blowing out the sub spar to get american LZ throws. 40-45 degrees under full crow is plenty. I ran the servo arms through the top wing skin to simple straight linkages to the top of the flap.

Take a look at Alex McMeekins Acacia 2 review here: http://www.knewt.com/planes/f3f/acaciaII.htm

Andy

[Simon K 3]

Thanks Andy.

With regards to the review, that was one of the sites which swayed my decision!

[Tom Satinet]

Hey Simon,

 good luck with the Acacia2.  If I were building an acacia 2 i would probably use the new hitec hs5085mg servos in the wing.  They would work in the fuse too, although you can go for standard sized servos, as you rightly say. 

 the models with larger fuses are a lot easier to handle when you are flying on your own. the broom handle types can be a bit hairy to launch.  

 hopey you enjoy the first race.

Tom

[Simon K 3]

Hi All,

Well work has been a bit unkind, and I'm only now getting around to putting the Acacia 2 together, and was hoping for some assistance with a query I have about wiring the wing.

I've built a wiring loom which can be seen in the diagram below, and all works fine.

What I tried to do next was see if I can power the receiver from a separate battery (as I'll be using Spektrum 2.4Ghz), and this does not work... as can be seen in the next diagram.

Any ideas why the second scenario would not work?
Do the negatives have to be common, or am I missing something completely?

Thanks for any advice

Simon

PS... I can move this question to DIY electronics if that's more appropriate...
but I just thought I would try the Gliding gang first.

PPS.... Sorry about the quality of the diagrams... they look lovely on my screen!

[Tom Satinet]

why are you powering the servos direct from the battery rather than through the RX?  i'm sure it will work, but it seems a unnecessary. Is this something to do with spektrumness?

 Again i see no point in using 2 batteries.  The RX on it's own barely draws any current (unless it's a 2.4 issue).  Twice as much to go wrong for no benefit.  I haven't been around long but i've yet to see an f3f model with 2 batteries.  I use 4 cell AA batteries in all my large mouldies.  In fact in the newer designs there is barely room for that never mind 2 packs.  that said i would look at using sub c cells on the acacia 2 as it has plenty of weight in the nose and they obviously give very long flying times.  i very  much doubt you would suffer brown outs or voltage drops etc with a sub c battery pack (and you could fly for about 2 days). 

[Tim Mackey]

I agree...seems to be over complicating things. Certainly not anything to do with Spektrumness as you call it