Hangar 9 PTS Raptor

[NigelH]

The big question here is how slow it can fly (see the below tale).  I think that it was Timbo who mentioned one of his models that made him nervous and hence didn't fly it.  I wouldn't want to buy one of these and then feel the same way.

 

We had one at the field and the pilot took it out over the other side of town ready for the final and once he had it on the grass it must still have been doing 30 or 40mph.  He was running out of field (and it's a big field) and pulled up just in time to skim the hedge at the end of the field.

 

However, I've seen videos here and it looks really quite ok with and without the training gear.

 

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=839

 

In fact, in the 'advanced' mode it lands very slowly.

 

Edited By Nigel Hunter on 10/02/2010 21:05:39

[NigelH]

Just seen this

 

http://www0.epinions.com/review/Hangar_9_F_22_Raptor_Pts_Rtf/content_425930362500

 

You may as well throw them in the bin

 

[FEDERICO GILLI]

Obviously this model is never going to get the place of a wot trainer and I think this is the biggest mistake of hangar 9. If they did market the raptor as sport / jet introduction model and trash al the additional bits people would have get on with the flying characteristics without too much fuss. Bet they would have sold more and it would be still in hangar 9 portfolio. 

Back to my one. I got the supertigre in and looks tidy enough. The mock cowling has been cut out but I'll wait to cut the grey one untill I'm happy with the power to weight results (I might have to swap the 61 for my much bigger 68).

The tank is in with a tiny bit of foam around the bung to seal the passage to the engine compartment. The throttle rod is too thick and does not slide well at all. I think is oversized and I replaced with a much thinner piano wire job. Now everithing move smooth and the carb tilted to an angle leave the z bend working perfectly. An other advantage is that as result of this carb position the needle are farther away fronm the prop. The spinner backplate hole need a bit of reaming but the spinner prop blades cut outs are perfect for my apc 11x6 and require no trimming,

Legs and wheels are in but I think the flat spot in the front leg for the steering braket is in the wrong position. If I tight the arm in this spot there is very little right movement before the arm strike the plywood partition. The wheels itself are of a very good quality.

One issue at least for me is that all the servos cut outs are too small for my futaba s3001 so I will have to file some ply away. I also decided to not bother with the flap servos, If I cannot land without flap I'm not good enough for the plane. I'll start with the fix flaps in the middle position and see how bad is the landing without them after.

Tonight I'm planning to smooth the wrinkle and open up the servos cut outs. I also want to check if I can improve the elevator rod system as as they are appear to introduce some drifting during loops. I have a similar set up in my VQ Macchi 205 and I have not notice any issued with it during loops.

 

All the best.

 

Federico

[001]

I really think it is a shame that it was sold as a 'trainer' , if it had an outline that was more scale then I would be happier. But at £70 can't complain.

 I will decide where to place the elevator servo later, might have to go further back.

I am very tempted to connect the two elevators with a 6mm square carbon tube through the rear fuselage.

Some people say they fly badly, others say they fly well. Anything that shape, with a short moment arm is going to be compromise,  if I can save as much weight as I can, I think it will be OK.

[FEDERICO GILLI]

Latest..

 

if H9 supplied a roll of covering film too do the model could have been potentially faster than remove the wrinkles! By the way not all of them disappear but consideting the status of the various part I'm pleased enough.

An other think that H9 should have not done is to drill the holes for the servos. Having to cut out them all to fit my 3001 the hole did not match anymore so only 2 over 4 can be reused.

All tail surfaces have been installed and only one over the 8 screw wsa not aligning properly and give me a bit of sweat to get it in.

Servos for ele, rudd and thr in. Throttle linkage finalised and thr-cut set up on radio. I modified the steering leg notch to allow same movement right and left. Rudders are also been fitted and set-up. The rods need to be kinked up to line the plastic clevis with the plastic rudders arms. If this is not done the plastic will pull out with the wrong alignment induced strain. Battery switch is in too. I do not like any of the clevices and plastic retainer on brass rod clamps but I decided for once to use the supply equipment as much as I can, after all H9 is suppose to supply good quality stuff!

 

That's all as far I can recall.

 

Have a nice weekend.

Best Regards,

 

Federico  

[FEDERICO GILLI]

last night I got one of the wing copleted with fixed flap in neutral position and the airelon servo. As happen to me if you glue in place the flap three position plate before treading the aileron servo cable through the wing it make it quite hard to get it done after.

I have futaba 3001 in and the cross shape harm is just about long enough to clear the servo pit cover but the amount of movement is more than enough for well above the reccomended values. I  hope to finish the second wing tonight and stick on the underside of the wing and tail plane some yellow solartrim to help with orientation. I need than to asseble the wings and balace the model. I'm not so sure about following the instruction to the letter and fitting the battery far back.... any suggestions?

 

Regards,

 

Federico 

[001]

I will keep this short and to the left of the page.

New lighter tailplanes made & fitted, saved 210 grams.

Light grey Coverite looked at and compared,

does not match the model, so used silver Solarfilm.

(Can't find Ultracote locally)

Elevator servo (one) under tailplane in space for 4.8v battery.

Elevator halves connected with 6mm carbon tube.

The two front T nuts for the fins were clogged with glue,

fortunately not the back ones.

Cannot do any more until the motor arrives from HK.

 

 

[FEDERICO GILLI]

model finished bar apply some solartrim. I got airelones wires in the wrong spot that's why so hard to put is, fixed that.

The battery has been located in front of the tail servos and the cg is circa 1-1/2" forward the landing legs. I think I'm going to try this CG as I'm paranoic to thave this type of mofel tail heavy. The servo on the tail sound good if match with the weight reduction on the stabilyser, H9 should have done this day one. With the normal set up I could not avoid a bit of assimmetry on the two elevator at the fully down position but theyu are fine at fully up. I cannot see myself bunting this model anyway so I think I can survive with it.

The left wing root do not go perfectly flushed with the fuse once pushed in towards the trailing side, Thightening the wing bolt mitigate the issue but it is not a greath job from a manufacturer as H-9 would like us to believe.

Overhall the look is good even without the cowl, as I said I'll carve it out ony if I'm happy with the supertigre 51 at the front. 

Wheather permitting I might bring it out on sunday for a test flight.

Regards,

Federico

[FEDERICO GILLI]

Hello guys,

 

I'm been buisy with my mew gull so I did not get the time to fly the raptor. Any luck with yours?

 

Regards,

 

Federico

[FEDERICO GILLI]

Hi all,

 

eventually the maiden day arrived last Sunday.

With a stong breeze perpendicular to our run way I went through the usual checks and range check, everithing looked ok. The CG was circa 1" forward the reccomanded and the supertigre G51 runned very rough for what I could see a huge amount of vibration at the fuel tank. The sesulting bubbles in the supply pipe I guess are the couse of the not smoot engine operation.

The plane was put into the wind and throttle open gradually. The first take off was on the hedge of a stall. The normally quite powerfull engine looks undersized for the raptor. The airelons were very twitchey too. After few cirquit the stall was tested and the result was quite good with the plane dropping the nose a no major sign of tip stall.

Landing was not particulary difficult and the absence of flap (left in the fully up position) was not an issue. I like to test this again with no wind!

After inputting a big -80% in my airelon expo I tried a second tale off, this time I used all the space available and pull it in a very shallow climbe. The airelon where now manageble with sill a very fast roll rate when the sticks were pushed to the limits. loop are nice and wide too. Stall turns are not really for this model. I see why a lot of people opted for a bigger engine, I have an MDS 68 and I might try it in future, I only sorry to spoil even more the front of the plane with a bigh chunk of metal. At hight the whees are not very visible, actually the whole model is quite invisible! Yes I got the grey one!

Not a trainer by all means at least without all the stick on features. Overall I'm quite happy and if a bit more poke can be added at front for few nice vertical climbs the overall package will be well worthed the price I paid for.

I got few ground picture but I still need to transfer them from the camera to the pc.

All the beast,

 

Federico

[Braddock, VC]

I bought one and took it to the hastings fly-in to build, the bloke in the next caravan made me an offer I couldn't refuse for it. So I sold it on. One of my club mates had one and he offered it to me in a swap for some equipment so it's game on again.

I have four mini digital servos that are going in the rear flying surfaces with v. short pushrods and a yamada 45 2 stroke with minipipe that's going to be the prime mover. Currently this is turning a 11x7 apc at over 13000 revs/min so I'm going to up the nitro to 30% as it's cheaper than buying a new engine that may not be the equal of the YS and hope to exceed 14000, failing that I've a 91fx that''l pull the stunt but I'm reluctant to fit it because of the extra weight.

I can also, with a little surgery, get the throttle servo back aft to minimise the amount of noseweight, similarly the nosewheel steering servo, using the pushrod tubes for the ele and rudder..

I plan on fitting flaps and have decided to use my giantcod radio gear with 2 rxs one per side to minimise mixing, the only mix will be ch 4 and 5 with 5 being used for the nosewheel steering.

Unfortunately I've another build on the go and so I hope to get to the 50th anniversary bash and build it there. 

[001]

Today I flew my F22 for the first time. Delayed for several months due to illness and the weather.

 If anyone remembers, I chose to power it by el*ctricity, which needed some construction, modifications and pre-planning. The plan was to remove as much weight as possible and balance the aircraft towards the end of the build by assessing the position of the (5000 -5S) battery as things progressed.

I was concerned about the overall weight, which had crept up to nearly seven pounds but eventually I had plenty of power thanks to components from Hobby King and their budget prices.

I was quite nervous before the flight but it took off quite rapidly and climbed away briskly. I was not planning a long flight as ventilation to the motor and ESC was not ideal.

The model was very stable and smooth to fly, I was expecting it to be quite twitchy because it is close-coupled but it was actually surprisingly similar to any other sport model.......After a few steady circuits and a slight aileron trim to the right, the landing was OK until the last second, when the F22 veered to the left off the runway and suffered slight damage to the left wing- repairable. A friend videoed the flight  and I may be able to get hold of it.

 Any other electric F22 out there????

[Stephen Grigg]

Any idea as to the cause Richard glad you have recovered.

[001]

Thanks, Stephen, pilot error! I should add that the model was without the PTS attachments on the l.e of the wings.

[Tim Mackey]

 Well done Rich - look forward to you throwing it off the Orme someday

[Braddock, VC]

I started putting mine together yesterday as I'm not going to get to the rcme bash, fitted my ys 45 and noticed there is some serious downthrust, did anyone out there remove this or did it not create any issues. I think I'll bring the angle down so the plane is trimmed 0 - 0 - 0, after all I can always pop a bit of down trim in.

My YS is pumped so I can actually fit the tank over the cg as the servos normally there are now at the aft end and it means the weight of the empty tank ( 50 grammes!!!!!)isn't up front.

Like richard I'm seriously thinking about replacing the reinforced concrete tailplanes and fins with a balsa built up structure which will suit me as I can then build in fairings for the servos that will be mounted in them, I'll glue them in as one of the tailplane blind nuts was choked with glue, I had to do some surgery to remove it and clean it up.

At the back of my garage I found a new litre of cox mix with 16% nitro and this has upped the engine to 13600 ish but the noise is something else and it has castor to which I'm allergic, makes my eyes water something awful. It'll be helimix 20% next as I think I'm on the right track there.

Currently all the components add up to 7lbs 1 ounce, so saving nearly 8 ounces by replacing the tailplane and fins makes sense as with a 1700mAh nicad at the aft end she's tail heavy. If I can balance it with a 1600 2s lipo and bec I'll save another 2 - 3 ounces so I may end up with an auw of about 6lbs 5 ounces and the ys will make that sing the right notes, probably on 10% fuel so I'll win all round.

I had thought of launching from a dolly but the underside of the plane is as flimsy as jordan's lingerie so I won't bother with that. Yet.

[001]

John, I looked up a lot of information from other (American) Forums on this machine, there is a good video of it flying, but I cannot remember where.

Some 'experts' said that they had reduced the downthrust and it flew better.

I reduced the downthrust simply by adding washers behind the (electric) motor mount that I had to make.

 

My way of tackling the tailplane and elevator issue was to rebuild them in very light balsa, saving a lot of weight (80 grams I think). The elevators are joined with a 6mm carbon fibre tube running inside an aluminium tube behind the 'tailpipes' (Not inside the structure).

The elevator is driven by one standard servo in the battery hatch.

I did consider replacing the fins but left them, I did remove the rudders though!

[Braddock, VC]

Thanks Richard, it's funny how one learns how to operate this forum, I think I've got the hang of it so please mr ashby don't change the procedures.

My f22 is sitting undisturbed since my last posting, I'm determined to build it as my winter hack

Incidentally, I changed the plug on the ys for a colder one and lo and behold gained about 400 rpm but also a significant amount of decibels. I hadn't realised how plug sensitive performance engines are.