Artto Ilmanen

What do we know of Prosynth fuel? What is the oil used in the blend? Is it low viscosity or high viscosity? ML70 for instance is a high viscosity oil. I have my own experience with Byron fuel that has low viscosity Klotz in it. The oil failed to lubricate my 240v properly which lead to serious engine damage. Getting back to Prosynth fuel I think I read in RCU the oil is Aerosave. This is a bit confusing as Aerosave is very popular in continental Europe and has a very high viscosity index. I think this is one reason why I don't like those ready made blends that you can't get proper information on what oil & how much there is in the blend.

Braddock, It's funny how different Laser behave differently. My 300v for instance does not throw any oil through the breathing nipple. Practically speaking 90% oil comes out through the left cylinder looking behind of the model engine inverted. At full throttle the right cylinder does not throw any oil through the exhaust you can keep hand below it and it stays clean. If you set the right cylinder overly rich, then some oil may come out of the exhaust but to my surprise the left cylinder throws even more oil out. According to Laser the oil gets thrown on walls of the other cylinder due to moving parts which is why the other cylinder smokes more. Laser no says 10% GOOD quality synthetic oil is fine so this helps with having cleaner models, too. I don't know Prosynth fuel I'm mixing my own fuel with 5% nitro and 10% Aerosave.

Posted by Jon Harper on 29/08/2015 21:20:41: Most people now do not follow things like scale champs. In the old days, model clubs were a place for model builders to get together to build and fly. Most model club meetings had something to do with modelling. We had soldering and spraying tutorials and it was a social thing as well as a hobby. We would all get together and share stories of our builds and pop over to see the other guy who had a lathe and could make you that custom left handed widget that you needed, and while the epoxy was drying you would read a magazine containing the details of the latest competitions or the NATS and marvel at the creations before you and talk about these wonderful engines that were in such proliferation. Now, you buy your artf in isolation, often online and just put it together yourself. You then go and fly it, perhaps with others but in general you need no further interactions to fly your chosen model and given that the model is built and painted you need not bother the chap whose compressor you would have borrowed. Because of this, word of mouth no longer serves as a means of advertising and scale champ results are sadly pretty meaningless. While our reputation in scale champs and our tally of results is a wonderful feather in our cap it is no longer sufficient basis for advertising. Names like Mick reeves, brian taylor, Laser (and Neil of course), PAW, Unitracts, Flair, precedent, aerotech and even chris foss have all but gone from the collective modelling mind. They have been replaced by new names like yt, hangar 9, dle, sebart, align, seagull and Blackhorse. And even some of the new names like wren, arc, ats, have already started to fall as the next wave of names sweeps in with dji, turnigy and so on. Some companies have survived. Like SLEC and DB, they have been able to adapt and I hope are doing well. But many of the names I have listed have gone. No more aerotech Lancaster and mosquito, no more precedent stampe's (lucky for us slec bought the rights though) or turbulents and currently it seems flair are again in dire straights. Also were it not for the intervention of ripmax we could have seen the last of the WOT's from Chris foss. What I am trying to get at here is that the changes in modelling in recent years are like nothing that has gone before and the time frames for change are so much shorter. Many companies have gone because they could not, or would not adapt. At Laser I am desperately trying to bring new ideas to the table to make us competitive and attractive in this new market. Development of a petrol engine continues, I have plans for other larger engines of single and multi cylinder configurations. We are also looking at new ways of selling the engines and increasing our market share. only time will tell if my efforts are as successful as I want them to be I guess for majority, and especially in US market everything has to be easy in these days. Easy ARFs, easy petrol engines, etc.. Saito and OS that used to be big names in the US are being replaced by DLE & DA as the petrol engines seem to be in fashion now. Why? clean models and pump & CDI are very much appreciated by an average modeller. I think Laser engines will maintain to be considered as number 1 choice for serious modellers. However, to gain market share (and thus enjoy economies of scale) there should to be also "easy engines" in Laser range that can be used with ARFs in a similar ways like DLEs etc. I think the 180 petrol might be one of these engines. The engine for the masses has to be petrol, easy to handle and suit to 35 cc and 50-60cc arf class and not be too heavy. Alll i say is of course very obvious to you. I personally admire the great quality of Laser engines. I think there will always be people who appreciate a quality product. Let's think of Porsche or BMW to name some examples. Now this all being said let's also remember that people have less and less time for their hobbies. Hence they want to have ARFs and an engine they can mount in easily without need to carry out extra work such as moving the tank to a better location in the model, etc. So just keep up the great work Jon and the future wil be bright and prosperous!

Posted by Jon Harper on 29/08/2015 18:13:03: We had a new member at our club today and he asked what engine I was using. I said Laser and he said 'never heard of them'. Time for the PR dept to swing in to action....oh wait, that's me, I guess I will do it when the planets align, the engines are in stock and my R&D well under way. As for syncing carb I do it by eye when I build the engines I have a little torch to help me but its just done by eye. I guess I have gotten used to it. How can someone be in yhe hobby without having head of Laser engines? I remember first time I head of them was in Lappeenranta, Finland (where I lived in those days) in 1992 when Pete McDermot won F4C European Championship. The engine was Laser 180v.. Jon, I wish my eays were as good as yours!

Posted by Broken Prop on 29/08/2015 17:20:25: Just spent the afternoon on the Scale line at the Nationals, listening to the Lasers. Aahhh...... Here is one to listen as well I originally posted this video on RCU Saito club when I tried to teach my Saito FA-125a to run on 5% nitro.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEpkXlWiMK4 This the same 300v of which I suspect the carbs are out of synchronization a tad. If you listen carefully you hear the engine does not idle as smooth as Jon's (Carosel43) Laser 240v or 300v do. P.S . Broken Prop, I wish I could have been there, as well! -Artto

Hi Jon The model & engine is a joy to fly so that's what I'm going to do for now. Soon it will be autumn & windy which means I can have a look on the carbs before winter arrives and I can fit skis on the model for winter flying I try to have the idle as low as possible to ease things on landings.. Besides, I do think I need to learn a better procedure to ensure the carbs are syncronized for future installations referring to my 240V & Esm Focke! regards, Artto P.S: happy to hear your are making progress with your stampe!

Dear friends, I have a Laser 300v that works well and is my joy and pride. However, I have some challenges to reach reliable low idle. When idling the right cylinder (looking from behind of the model engine inverted) always stops running after a while, say, 30-45 seconds. The idle is pretty low, say 1500-1600 rpm. but the left cylinder never fails to run properly, even after the right one stops running. This happens despite I have adjusted the LS needle a bit leaner on the right cylinder compared to other one. Also, it feels the right cylinder, when it idles, it misses every second revolution. You can hear and feel this when you keep your hand below the exhaust outlet. The fuel is 10% Aerosave & 5% nitro. I replaced the glow plugs, no effect (OS F) So I assume the carbs are not properly syncronized? I would like to hear of best practises to check that the carbs are syncronized on a Laser V engine. extract from the Laser instructions: "The carburettors must be carefully synchronised to close together. It is very important that each carburettor has the same amount of opening at idle position. The barrels can be closed onto a piece of copper wire used as a gauge to check the positions." I have used a copper wire which is about 1,3mm thick. No this may be too thick a gauge as the barrels close more at idle position. Next my plan is to find copper wire which is maybe 0,5mm or so to see if a thinner wire helps to reach a more precises syncronization of the carbs. Any other hints? Has anyone tested adjusting the barrels to close in such manner that one of the cylinder closes a tad earlier than the other, like using a 0,5mm wire on one carb and 0,6mm wire in the other carb? (now this is of course against Laser official instructions) I appreciate to hear of your expariences and thoughts, thanks & regards, Artto     Edited By Artto Ilmanen on 29/08/2015 10:33:34

Here are a couple of pictures on my cooling arrangement for a 300v and a picture on how nicely a Laser 150 fits inside the cowl of the Great Planes Super Chipmunk

Posted by Jon Harper on 16/08/2015 19:56:20: The primary issue with RCV is not the design but the manufacture. Alas the Chinese QC is not able to keep to the tolerances required by the design. The SP range are more critical in this regard than the CD which is why they suffer more. Artto, we can supply a pice of flexi pipe to go into the end of the standard exhaust. Would that be any good? Hi Jon, Thanks, something like this is in my mind! I'll give you a call to get all that's needed. I might try to test the flexi pipe without silencer as we are not that noise sensitive here (fortunately). I guess a longer flexi pipe could then be cut to suitable lenght to install a silencer into it if needed?

Posted by Solly on 16/08/2015 17:55:50: Have you looked at the RCV 130Cd? This will fit in the cowl and is a lovely engine. I use one in a giant Seagull PT19 and it's one of the nicest engines in my collection. I forget the RCV engines! Sure, they may be nice engines, too. However, Ihave read mixed reviews on them? Some like them, some don't? I do not have any personal experience on them, though..

I'm assembling a GP Super Chipmunk with a Laser 150 in it. I guess no other engine than a Laser (150 single, 160v or even 240v) can be hidden completely inside the cowling! Saito FA-182 won't fit, Magnum/ ASP/SC/OS 160 twin won't fit either. The same applies to OS 120 or Saito 120 / 125/ 150/180. None of them fits without butchering the cowl! I must admit, though, that the stock silencer has to be replaced by a Laser flexi tube to clear the exhaust. No big deal! Thumbs up for Laser Engines! Btw. how do you attach pictures from your computer to your post?

@ Artto: Hi Artto, good to hear from you too. I received both engines back from Morris a couple of months ago but have only today found time to start testing. Rather than go off-topic on Jon's thread I'll report back on my RCMF thread in due course. Cheers for now, Gordon Hi Gordon, Very nice to hear you have some time for engine testing now. I and many others lookng forward to hearing from experiences on your RCMF thread. It's going to be interesting to hear from your experiences on the new carbd with insulation material between the intake header and the carb body. -Artto

Posted by Jon Harper on 06/08/2015 10:26:18:.. ..The problem is testing a new engine is exceptionally difficult as its very hard to replicate how modellers will use the engine. I think you have learned quite a bit of this when talking to me, huh?

Hi Jon, Sorry to hear of your loss! And thanks for the update. I think it's very important to carry out the testing in a proper manner, to avoid problems such as those associated to premature launch of Saito petrol line engines. At least I am willing to wait a little more to have then a top quality product like is the case with Laser glow engines. As far as the 4-stroke petrol carburettor is concerned it seems to be the challenging component of other model engine manufacturers, too. This is the case with Roto 85, to name one example. P.S. Gordon, nice to hear of you! Any news on your / Morris's attampts to convert your 300v & 240V to run on petrol? -Artto

Stevo, Sorry to hear that things did not go like they should have gone. Sometimes Murphy's law takes place.. Still 99% of time the service of Laser engines is just excellent. I hope your situation will be sorted out in a positive way, eventually!Edited By Artto Ilmanen on 21/07/2015 18:48:58

Posted by Frank Skilbeck on 04/07/2015 08:20:24: You could always buy an electric fuel pump, i.e. http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__17416__Turnigy_12v_Electric_Fuel_Pump_Nitro_Gas.html these will be brushed motors so with a lower voltage will run at a slower speed. But you are maybe starting to get a bit complicated Edited By Frank Skilbeck on 04/07/2015 08:20:54 Thanks Frank, The weight of this pump is pretty high, 175 grams. ( a Perry VP30 weighs 23 grams) I have also tested these chines pumps with poor luck on my flight pack. It seems they are good for few gallons, then they are done.. But of course testing the set-up on the bench with this kind of a pump could be ok! I think I need to check if I still have something simiar available in my workshop. I think a friend of mine has this pump on his F4C Yak 52 modified to methanol http://shop.rc-electronic.com/PUMPS-TANKS/PowerFuel-RX-fuel-pump.htm?shop=k_emcotec_e&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=A90053&p=1024 His pump was modified to be suitable for methanol fuel by the manufacturer. The weight is 96 grams + battery so a bit on a heavy side, too.

Posted by Martin McIntosh on 03/07/2015 23:06:14: In my experience (not on Lasers in this case), don`t touch Perry pumps with a barge pole. The only thing I used in my aerobatic days was a TK regulator which was fool proof. I could have put the tank in the tail if I had wished but have never tried one on a four stroke. Managed to get two more at the Nats bring and buy a couple of years ago. Brilliant. Hi Martin, I don't know of TK regulators. I tested Clines and the Laser 240v didn't like them. Other modellers (for instance Fiery / Australia & 300v) reported similar experience in RCU. -Artto

Posted by Jon Harper on 03/07/2015 21:42:30: for the header tank setup to work correctly you need to treat them as the main tanks, and the tank on the c/g as a reserve tank that you use to fill up the main tanks. If you put pressure in to the tank on the c/g and have the headers sealed then you effectively have a tank that reaches back to the c/g and so have all the problems you would expect to see with a tank that far away. If however the smaller header tanks are only just behind the engine as normal and have their own vent fuel can be drawn from them without drawing from the tank on the c/g so you don't have any problems. clearly by doing this they will run dry, so you need a pump or some exhaust pressure to keep them topped up. If there is still confusion I will see if I can draw a diagram to explain Hi Jon, What Frank says is, in my understanding, an arrangement in which the fuel is available in the header tanks for the engine in all circumstances, The vent / spill back means the carbs won't feel pressure / vacuum as the extra fuel (i.e. the fuel which is pumped to the header buy not consumed ) get's back to the main tank. Also the engine does not need to suck the fuel from long distance (main tank on CG) as the fuel is pumped to the header. Therefore, to my understanding, the header does not need to be open to the atmosphere as no vacuum can take place (provided with the pump capacity is large enough). Further, if the outgoing volume of the pump is regulated to be the same if flying horizontal or vertical, then the hydrostatic pressure against the carbs should remain pretty much the same in all circumastances, i.e. horizontal / vertical flying. As this is only theory it should be tested, of course. Too bad I got an email from Conley: Artto, Unfortunately, I do not have a pump that will work for your application. The VP-30 pump needs a positive/negative pulse from the crankcase to make it operate. I do not know if the Laser engine will give this. The VP-20 will not work, because there is simply not enough vibration. Sorry I could not be more help. Best regards, GARY L. CONLEY 1-630-858-3160 [email protected] So it seems I do not have a pump to test with? Is there an electric pump I could play with? -Artto Edited By Artto Ilmanen on 04/07/2015 07:45:34

Posted by Jon Harper on 03/07/2015 11:37:13: You would need the header tanks vented to atmosphere as normal and have the main tank refill them via some sort of pump..... You could try using exhaust pressure into the main tank, with the headers breathing naturally without pressure. it would be a headache though making sure the headers did not over/under fill Thanks Jon, Ok I guess the best is to select a model with a short nose I think in case I can find a pump of some kind I may, just out of curiosity, try the set-up on the bench. If I get a positive experience then I may try something similar on my Yak -Artto