Nigel Banham

I only heard about Brian's death the other day. Very sad - as a dedicated "petrol head" I always went first to his column and on the occasions that I wrote to him he always responded helpfully. A very hard act to follow - his depth of knowledge was impressive; and his humour and humanity always infectious. R.I.P.Brian

Hi Everyone, I have now given the Mossie its first flight. I moved the CG back to 130mm and took both ailerons slightly up, as did Danny, to imitate some washout. She accelerated fast but I kept it on the ground until we had lots of speed and then climbed gently. It flies fast and I took it up high to try the stall with differing flap settings - no surprises and stall was straight ahead. Motors are Axi 4130/16 V2 and props are 16x10 contra spinning. A 6s lipo 4500mah on each motor and separate Nimh for both retracts and Rx.I reduced the throws of both ailerons and elevator to 60% and set expo at 40 for both. Rudder as per the book. I tried to get the engines at zero-zero on thrust and in the air it needed a little bit of left aileron, but the controls are about right for a soft, smooth response. A bit more aileron needed at slow speed but quite a sweet aeroplane. The only time it bit me was on the landing, which was full flap and turned out to be "floaty". All ok until one ft up, then the nose dropped. My fault - I had allowed it to slow too much! Next time I will keep the power on about a quarter and "fly it on" Damage is only slight and has been mended. Lesson learned - yet again! Thanks for the help and advice guys. Regards, Nigel

Yes - it is an OS GF40 and is maybe a little overpowered but who flies at full throttle? I had one before with an NGH 35 2 stroke and it ran out of steam when going uphill! The vibration destroyed the Rx battery by breaking the tags between the cells (and the aircraft, and thank goodness it hit no-one) and I now use a battery backer on large models! The model is a delight to fly- it does lovely big, slow aerobatics - I can understand why you fly it in contests. Max flap is at 50 degrees - just measured it - and although they certainly slow it, I wouldn't call it parachuting down. Prop is 18x10 wooden and maybe, as Jon says, it could could do with increasing in size - it may be poss to slow the tickover. If the Mossie flies half as well I will be very happy!

Now that is interesting because that is exactly what my B.Taylor Tempest used to do. (I suspect in that case that the efficient split flaps slowed it, but it did not accelerate in a dive with flaps and on tickover, even though it was heavy. I have a large BH Chippie which has a 40cc petrol 4 stroke and although it is beautifully behaved, even with the flaps down it speeds up on tickover in a dive, so that has to be landed power on but with along flat approach - luckily we have the room to do it! Thanks for your help Nigel

Thanks for the advice guys - I will let you know how I get on. Keep the speed up is a good mantra. Got it! Sadly, I watched a lovely scale model get damaged last week due to slowing up the approach too much. Speed does not wreck aircraft; it is the lack of it. The idea of flying a lot of Mossies together at an event is an interesting exercise, particularly if they all have the same markings! Now - I have some dayglo paint somewhere.... All the best, Nigel

Hi Chris, Yes - point taken. I did not realise that you had no flap on but the wind sounded quite brisk so in real terms you had more airspeed. Thanks for the video - You did very well and those 4 stokes sounded great. I would imagine that with those pointy wings the stall would be nasty. Even a small amount of flap should help that because you are in effect introducing a large chunk of washout, but of course, the drag goes up. The 40% throttle needed to hold speed is interesting. Most A/c go nose up when flaps are deployed - at least until the speed decays, but a few go tail high! What does the Mossie do? I think that I am going to get the club test pilot to do this one. He is a better pilot than any of us and is about 30 years younger than I am! Kind regards, Nigel

Hi Chris, Thanks for the advice on flying and testing. I will take the CG back to 130mm - not too hard to do! Flying too slowly on the approach is a killer. I used to have a Brian Taylor Tempest that virtually stopped when the flaps were lowered. You had to keep the nose down and flare at the very last moment. I will perhaps try a "landing " at height first just to see what the stall is like! I didn't put down the AUW - it is 7.366 K, which seems to be about the same as everyone's ...and I have been trying to upload the pics and failed! I doubt that I will fly it this week - it is blowing old boots in Suffolk and I will wait till it settles. My thanks for your help. Kind regards, Nigel

Hi Everyone, My thanks for all the info re CG and throws/settings etc. I have gone the electric route, which is a little against the grain for me, but two guys in our club, John Ranson and Tony Waters, have built and successfully flown beautiful, larger electric Mossies - (with sound systems as well) and I picked their brains. To help the CG issue, I built a tray for my two 6sx4500 lipos, right at the front of the fus and then had to fit capacitors as Danny Fenton did. I have also moved those two fuselage servos as far forward as poss and used pull-pull wires on the rudder and the "mighty" tail-wheel, to get rid of two of those long rods. The Rx is in the port nacelle with its separate nimh battery and the retract battery - a small nimh is in the starboard one. The switches for both are on the outboard side of the nacelles under the wing, together with their charging ports. Both batteries as far fwd as poss under the wooden inner nacelles.The CG has actually come out at 122mm back from the LE at the root which is probably too far forward so should I take it back to 130mm which is where you guys seem to be setting it with success? I believe that Seagull must have designed for IC because it seemed that both nacelles had quite a lot of right thrust. I have fitted a "pusher" prop on the starboard motor, so that gets rid of the torque problem as the props go opposite ways. Yes - I know that this is not "scale" as the original had them turning the same way but I'll bet that the pilots would have loved to get rid of that swing on take off! Props are 16x10 electric and they turn at 7300, which gives quite a decent wind. A little butchery was needed on the outside nacelles as the right thrust was also evident on them. I have tried to get the both at zero side thrust with just a little down-thrust. Anther thing that I have discovered whilst doing this "build" is that the Oracover (fuelproof) two pack paint , which is a reasonable colour match, is an "Ouch" very shiny gloss paint, so I have some flatting down to do on all the bits that I have painted. Now working up to the maiden - I would stick some pics of my changes on here but I have not used this forum for a few years and have forgotten how to add them!

Hi Guys, My friend Eric, who is 87 and a skilled engineer, although new to model flying, has built a Vega from these plans and I test flew it for him earlier this year. It flew very well if a little sedately. We changed the prop and this improved it. However, he brought it to fly last week and as soon as it was in the air we were in trouble. It felt very tail heavy was barely controllable. I was very lucky to get it round the circuit and back on the ground - elevator was hyper-sensitive! He had made a slight change to the battery placement and the CG is now back where it should be! I want to check the control throws before we venture skywards again, but the plans don't show them and Eric no longer has the mag. Can't find them on the blog so does anyone have any idea??...just to save another cardiac arrest! Many thanks. Nigel.

Hi Ian, There is a post from me on no 31 of this thread on what went where and some photos of the finished model on no. 36. Engine was mounted on a nylon mount - sidewinder and the cowling was made from a shrunken plastic bottle (balsa plug and a heat gun), using the neck as the front end behind the prop. Canopy was likewise a plastic bottle. A lot of Tesco's water went on the garden during the production experiments. To get the CG back the Rx battery is strapped on the cross bracing behind the "fus" and you may find with a 15 that you have even more of a "nose down" prob. The model has loads of power and it flies fast + climbs well, but short of using a vintage style diesel, the ASP 12 is about as small as you can get. I used a 4oz tank, but the engine uses so little fuel that I may replace it with a 2oz, as the model needs to begin a flight rather nose heavy, which then of course, lightens during the flight....a problem that the leccy boys don't have. No-one in our club (Raydon in Suffolk) has done these things before so I am ploughing a furrow, but there is a lot of info on this site....good luck! Nigel

Hi Everyone, Mine is an IC Atom with an ASP12 on an 8x4 prop. (I like engines) I built it in 2014/15 but until today, I have never flown it nor any other autogyro!! I was waiting for a steady breeze - blowing nicely this morning. My first takeoff, with the rotor spinning well showed that it was way over elevated. To maintain S&L I had the stick almost as far as it would go forward. Quick untidy landing - broken prop but ok otherwise. The next take-off - after trimming was better and I managed about six circuits of the field.....getting the hang of it. A fast flyer with this set-up... G of G a bit forward?? However - I then did a downwind turn with a bit too much bank on.....it came down like a man-hole cover and I could not pull it out in time. I have just read Richard Harris's post about shallow turns - I learned that the hard way. Quite a lot of repair to do now - A lesson learned!!! But - the bug has bitten. I will repair this and am thinking of building another... Nigel Banham

Hi Richard, Advice please!!!!! I'm the man with the ASP.12 i.c. engine on the front of my Atom. I ran in the engine and got it to 15k with a 7x4 prop before switching to an 8x4 for the maiden.....so lots of urge at the front. I tried to fly before Christmas - nice bright windless day - and found that despite plenty of forward speed, the rotors were not (rotating) , so no lift. Took it home and increased the rotor incidence, ie tilted them back slightly more than the 90 degree angle with the mast. Tried again this morning but it made no difference - still the same result. Two questions. My rotors are set up to spin anti-clockwise, as yours appeared to be - some autogyros go the other way - does this make any difference? Secondly, should I attempt to spin the rotors as fast as possible at the beginning of the take off run? Well - at least it provided entertainment to my shivering club mates at our bright but very frosty fly-in! Many thanks, Nigel Banham

Hi Richard, Oops Just noticed a typo - I meant that I have widened the standard 45mm AJ blades to 60mm....not 600mm.... Same length. Nigel

Thanks for the kind comments gentlemen. Ian Prop at the moment is 7x4, (have not had an engine this tiny since the 70's and I had to look it up!) and although ABC engines are not supposed to need much running in, this is just to run it lightly loaded for the first couple of tanks and I may go up 7x5 or 6 later... I'll feed back when I have done it

Hi Richard, Thanks for that. I have extended the blades to 600mm as that seems the way to go. Please don't overload yours if you have not done the same! I think that I might have found the way to upload some pictures now so........., I might build another with a re-disigned fus shape so that I can get the battery indoors, rather than have it hanging out. I'll probably fly it at the New Years day club fly-in, when I have a beer and a burger by way of support. Nigel

Hi Richard, I have now finished an Atom with an ASP 12 glow on the front. As mentioned , to get the CG correct I have fitted the radio battery (1600m/ah) behind the rotor and because there is a 4oz tank in the cockpit, the engine servo is next to the rudder servo, with a cable under the tank. I have had to use a (cut down) standard fibre engine mount, but if anyone can find or make a radial back-plate mount for their engine (ie fitted onto the motor back-plate screws then it would make the installation neater. I would be interested in knowing the normal all up weight of the electric versions for comparison -anyone??? The ic one comes out at 1lb 13oz (no fuel) in old money. If mine is much heavier then hopefully it may be more powerful, otherwise take-off could be in the distance -we have quite a big field but its a bit soggy at present. I had intended to put in some pictures, but I have not yet worked out how to do it....... we will see what it looks like after the maiden - perhaps when Suffolk dries out a bit! Nigel

Hi Richard, I'm the one who has fitted an ASP 12 on the front. The extra stuff does, of course need to be housed somewhere! Throttle servo fits neatly (sideways) beside and above the rudder servo, with a bowden cable along the floor to the engine. I have made the cowl using a plug and the pop bottle as in the plan.....we will see if it melts!!!...., but a pilot is out I'm afraid - 4oz tank is sitting there so the canopy is sprayed black inside. As a guide to anyone thinking of going IC, the battery is currently behind the firewall but the model is then very nose heavy due to the lump on the front, so I think that its going to have to go under the webbing at the forward end of the booms, to achieve the correct balance....should work out ok. Its all looking quite neat. Am currently working on the rotors to thicken and widen them in accordance with redesign of the redesign of the revamp of these!!....and waiting for the HK head to come on its rowing boat from Hong Kong - will send a picture when its finished. Thanks for all the info everyone - never done an autogyro before and am enjoying it all.

Hi Guys, Have not built an autogyro before although I recall flying a DB twin rotor one for somebody many years back. I have now built an ATOM but have done an IC version - ASP 12 on the front. However both HK and Coolwind are out of stock of the heads, so production has ground to a halt. Does anyone have the contacts please for the gentleman who has made the laser cut ply version - regret that I don't have twitter. Many thanks,

Galaxy was my LMS and I have known Gary and his brothers for more than 35 years. Part of the problem in the model trade is the same as what happened in pharmacy some years ago, where large wholesale operators have bought into the retail sector and this gives them the ability to undercut the prices of most of the rest of the trade, since they have both the retail and the wholesale margin to play with. The internet accentuates this as they can compete better with all of the independent sector and they are the ones who set the prices and discounts for that sector. They are of course also able to gain "best" prices from manufacturers. Now there is nothing wrong with the internet and we all use it, but what will happen when the big guys have put all the independents out of business? Might prices rise? I also wonder whether they will donate all the raffle pizes at events run by the local clubs here, where we often raised several hundred for the local air ambulance. Many years ago, I had a child that died suddenly. Gary raise a collection from among his many customers and sent a huge bunch of flowers from them all, to the funeral for us. I have never forgotten it - Thanks Gary Use your LMS or lose it.