Jeffrey Cottrell 2

Hi Guys Santa paid a belated visit this morning. Brought with him the 2650 4s packs and the spinner from Robotbirds. So, good news. HK list the packs as 22mm deep, they are actually 21mm, and fit the un-modded battery bay with room to spare. Even replaced the velcro strap with one a lot thicker, and still a good fit. Haven't decided yet what to do with the power leads. Left the esc 'floating' for the time being, until I do the test flight and am happy with the set up. Same with the spinner. Would really have liked a 50mm one to look right, but the 40mm leaves a gap which allows cooling air direct on to the motor. Happy with that. All I need now is some waders, so I can use the field. Jeff

Hi Keith Unless I'm mistaken, Kim is using these, which show as 22mm deep. Should fit the battery bay with room to spare. Jeff

Hi Keith No complaints from me, mate. Glad to have you with us. However I would like to question a couple of things from your post. First of all, one of the fun things with this hobby is everyone gets what they want from a model. Both Colin and Kim are happy with the performance, glad to hear it. Me, I'm a bit of a tinkerer, always thinking there is more to be had. Having said that I'm not contemplating major changes. Like anyone else on here, I've broken a prop from time to time. Wouldn't think twice about replacing one, so changing to a different size is really no biggy. Same with the Lipo. I use 2200 3s currently (ahem) but they also power my helicopters and quad so getting some different ones for the Riot is no worry. Won't know for sure until they arrive but I'm convinced those Turnigy ones will fit without modding the battery carrier. If they won't, might have to re-think.but I don't intend to 'upgrade the entire power train' or do any extensive airframe mods. Small steps does it for me Jeff

Hi Keith Those Turnigy packs should be with me within a few days, but I do have some 3s packs for my helicopters, so I can confirm some dimensions. HK quote length as 137mm, where mine are 140, but width as 44mm where mine are 42mm. Depth for the 3s is 17mm, so 4s should be 22 plus change. Sounds like a winner. Have to say I have taken a number of these packs apart, and they do have a layer of hard plastic around the cells. If need be this could be removed which could save another mm or so. Main issue to me would be how to accommodate the power wires, but I'm sure i can invent something once I have the packs. Anyway, £12.50 per pack not a lot to risk. Also interested to see Mark recommends 10 x 5/6 for the 4s packs. If that size flies the model with the authority i need, reduction in current and increased duration will be side benefits. We'll see Jeff

Hi Guys Keith Sounds like a plan to me. Let us know how you get on. At least you have a flying site. Mine is on clay, and given the weather the past few weeks it's more suited to growing rice than flying toy aeroplanes. Last time I went down there were a couple of swans paddling happily on what used to be the runway. Ho hum. Couple of thoughts. HK do a range of 'bone' props including 11 x 5.5 size here. I have one of these plus a genuine APC one and they both seem similar in stiffness. Best thing is the price. Also I use combined prop driver and spinner from here. These are made by a company called MPJet and are really good quality. Only issue is the biggest is 40mm which is a little small for the model, but does leave a gap for cool air to flow over the motor. Highly recommended. Kim 'I've taken to warming the batteries in my trouser pocket for a while before fitting them, which improved things.' Just make sure there is nothing else metallic in your pocket, otherwise it might not be only the batteries that get warmed up, if you get my drift Jeff

Hi Guys, few thoughts Colin and Kim Glad to hear you're happy with the performance of your Riots. Points out something that has always been an issue with ARTF. That is variable quality. Some may be better than others. Only way to check is if you could supply current and rpm readings to compare with ours. Also flight performance seems to be a very subjective thing. Mine in its standard format will loop and roll, but it doesn't do so with any authority. Seems to be struggling to do even the most basic manoevres. Bit like flying a blancmange, not to my liking at all. Anyway, some numbers would help. Keith From the readings I got, I would be suspicious of that 37a on 4s. Well worth trying, but could I suggest you start off with the 11 x 5.5 first. Either that or borrow your friends 4s again and make sure it's fully charged and run the test again. My figures show a 10a difference between props on 3s.On 4s I got 33a with the 11 x 5.5. Given that 4s on the 12 x 6 should be pretty close to 40a, leaving not much headroom for the esc and motor. Capt K I notice the motor you use in yours is now discontinued. If anyone wants to follow your lead, wonder if this might be a good replacement. In general. Someone posted they were not happy with the quality of the supplied prop driver. I can second that. Had to abort the first 4s run because the entire prop/driver came off. I was doing the test on the kitchen table and eventually found the prop behind the cooker. Ooh err. Switched to a better one from my stock to complete the test. However, awaiting fitting to another model I have one of these. Only 40mm so a bit small to look right, but it does leave a gap between the edge of the spinner and the cowl, enough to let cooling air into the motor and esc. Forget aesthetics for efficiency. I'm a big fan or Turnigy LiPos. Looking on HK site I found these. From the measurements, they might fit in the battery bay unmodified. Got a couple on order so we'll see. That's it for now Cheers Jeff

Hi Guys Peter and Keith, thanks for your contributions to the discussion. Couple of minor points First of all, Peter. When I started this thread I called it Riot Upgrades. Seems to me that talk of changing props and cell count is entirely in keeping with this, and not off topic as you suggest. Keith. When I flew my Riot I found the same as you. Although it flew adequately it lacked 'sparkle' which is was I like in a model. My benchmark is to be able to fly on half throttle or thereabouts, with full chat for those 'hooligan' moments. My Riot certainly did not do that, requiring almost full throttle for the whole flight. Have to agree with Peter, the standard flight performance would be ok for practising and taking your 'B' test, but not a lot in reserve for those brown trouser moments. Anyway, back to the plot. Dug my Riot out of its winter induced hibernation, and did some bench tests. Results were interesting, to say the least. First was a baseline run. This is its original flying form, 3s and 12 x 6 prop. Note this was not the Century supplied prop, but a 'bone' prop from HK. Results were 30.5a current and 7500 rpm. These are very much in keeping with the figures Keith posted. Certainly close enough to doubt there is anything wrong with his model. If there is then I must have the same issue. Next swapped to a 11 x 5.5, also bone prop, and came the first surprise. Current dropped to 21a, and rpm up to 8150. Smaller prop accounts for the increase in rpm, but I was surprised by how much the current draw went down. Much more than I would expect. Bear in mind these are bench tests, but I double checked both sets of results just to be sure. Now the acid test. I do not have any fixed wing 4s packs, so I borrowed a 5000 Hardcase pack from one of my helicopters. The higher capacity may skew the result a little, due to less voltage sag under load, but I don't think it will be much. Anyway, with 11 x 5.5 and 4s pack I got these figures. Current draw of 33a and rpm of 9900. Both pretty much what I was expecting. I did not try the 12 x 6 prop. I would question Keith finding of 37a on 12 x 6. Given the difference between the two props on 3s, I would expect over 40a and the magic smoke to come out. So, conclusions. My Riot takes 3s 2200 packs in the supplied battery carrier, so I was a bit reluctant to try 4s and the surgery involved. However given that I get almost 2000 rpm increase for only a couple of amps or so in current. might be worth a try. Flies ok on 3s, but to live up to the advertising blurb, 4s on 11 x 5.5 is an option. Hope this helps Jeff

Peter Did you find that earlier post? Interested in your mods to rudder and elevator. Cheers Jeff

Hi All Flew helicopters for many years, where throttle lock (more properly throttle hold) was pretty much standard. On going back to planks, I could see the safety value of being able to disable the throttle while still leaving the other controls working for pre-flight checks. Most transmitters have a Throttle Hold in their heli programming but not so many in fixed wing. I have a number of early JR transmitters, 2610 and 2720, but is easy to arrange a mix to perform this function. Worth mentioning that one of the cheapest, FlySky FS-i6 does in fact have this in its fixed wing programming as well. Score one for FlySky. Jeff

Hi Martin, thanks I assume the model that got the OS25 was the Capiche, not the one I pictured. An OS on the front of the Vagabond would be a missile, not a plane. Anyway, just started on the build and a couple of things I have to work out. I am planning on using the plug-in wings, to give more space for the battery, but the plan gives no details of how they are held in place. Also, the elevator uses an intenal pushrod, which I like, but I'm planning on glassing the fuz, so I would need this pushrod and elevator joiner in place before I glass the fuz, but not the tailplane. Have to think about that one, but if anyone else has sen this issue, always a better mousetrap, etc. For everone else, found a way to attach photos from an album, so added some more, easily accessed ones. Cheers Jeff

Hi Julian, another thought. Not sure why you want to fit an on/off switch, but the obvious reason would be to make it safer carrying a powered up model to the flight line. If that's so, bear in mind that is is possible to configure one of the switches on your transmitter to throttle hold set to zero throttle. Means you have to switch on before the throttle will operate, so you can do your control checks with the motor disabled. Much safer that way Jeff

Hi George Got a couple of those 20a YEP units in big helicopters. Faultless so far. Jeff

Hi Julian Your three wires from the esc are positive (Red) negative (Black) and signal (yellow) In order to fit an on/off switch you will need to cut either the red or black (not both) and fit the switch in between.Not sure why your switch has red and black wires. If it's a standard on/off, both wires should be the same colour. Anyway, doesn't really matter which wire goes where. You have two ends of the cut wire, connect switch red to one and switch black to the other. Do NOT cut both red and black from the esc and connect switch wires to both. Have to ask why you want to fit an on/off switch there. If you want to disable the power, that might work but it's not 100% reliable. To properly disable the motor, better to get a bigger switch and connect in the power wire from the battery, or better still make it easy to unplug the battery. Cheers Jeff

Hi All While back I posted a question about electrifyng a PMP Vagabond. Inundated with one reply (thanks Steve) but undaunted, finished the model off, and here it is. Recently downsized, so looks like most of my building will be done in the kitchen. This is the first product of my pseudo workshop. At least I'm not far from a cup of coffee when needed. Couple of questions. I'm using a FlySky FS-i6 with a FSiA6 receiver. As most have noticed this TX does not come with a range check function, so could I use the error messages on the screen to tell me how good the reception is? Thinking to walk away from the model watching the screen until I get a poor reading. If this works, how much of an error is acceptable, and how far away should I be? Finally, among my winter projects will be the Mini (44" Capiche, from Malcolm Corbin. Got the plan from Sarik, but it lacks abit of detail. Anybody built one, or alternatively has a copy of the magazine (RCME Sept 2000) it was published in. Cheers Jeff

Hi SV Thanks for the link to the Mini Capiche plan. Interested enough to order the plan which arrived today. Thinking of this one as a winter build, but the plan lacks details of the construction. I know you said you had the plan, but I wonder if you might also have the magazine article that goes with it. If so, is there any way you could get it photocopied and sent to me, or alternatively scanned and e-mailed. Hope you can help me Jeff

Hi All Thinking of the 44" Capiche as a winter build. This was, I believe, a free plan in Sept 2000 RCME Got the plan from Sarik, but it lacks a bit of detail. Wondering if anyone might have a copy of that magazine they would be willing to sell, or alternatively could photocopy the construction article and post, or e-mail to me. Thanks Jeff

Hi SV Going to add another to a long list, but this might be right up your street. Browsing e-bay (as you do) came across this Worth a look? Jeff

Hi SV Not sure if you're looking for a build or an artf. If you want a build, I have been looking for a while at the Chili Breeze from Mike Delacole. Simple and easy to build but makes a very pretty model. Plans here: https://www.sarikhobbies.com/product/chilli-breeze-rc1749/ Also, interested in the Capiche 44" you mention. All I can find is the 52" version, so do you have a link to the smaller one? Cheers Jeff