Taking Off And Landing

[Stephen Grigg]

[Stephen Grigg]

If you click on the drawing you can see the layout of the field.The grass in front of the safety fence is also left long,so models can be restrained if to close to the pitts.

[David Turner 5]

Posted by Stephen Grigg on 13/09/2010 23:38:54:

I asked where we stood when its direction was across the patch,mutterings  were the answer.

 

 

Well, imagine that you normally had the one pilot's box, and it was mid-way along the runway.

 

When the wind was crossed, would you stay in that pilot's box and land directly towards you?

 

No, of course not. You'd have to make a choice, just as would those who have their pilot's boxes at either end of their runway.

 

For myself, if I can't cope with the cross-wind, using our single runway,  I don't fly.

 

[Aslan]

I'm with Lee here. If you wanna stand behind..... go ahead. If you wanna stand at the side.... go ahead. Good pilot-In control and uses common sense and courtesy. Bad pilot- Not in control,doesn't give a hoot about anyone else, and is sent home.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

We have a single pilots box - approximately midway down the strip. Its used regardless of the wind direction. There are short red flags in each corner of the strip to mark it out. Pilots take off and land either left to right or right to left - not at the same time! - depending on the wind direction.

 

The first pilots flying on nay particular day establish what is in effect the "circuit of the day" and everyone follows that direction. If the wind obviously changes direction then the pilots in the pilot box all agree to reverse the direction of the circuit - everyone is close together so there is no problem with inter-pilot communication. All take-offs and landings are "called". If the "circuit of the day" is not obvious when a new pilot comes to line up for take off he will simply ask the others already in the air "what direction is the circuit?" and they will reply approriately.

 

If the wind is across the strip then you just have to live with that and go for which ever of the two directions of circuit are more closely aligned to the wind. Learning to take off and land in a moderate cross wind is part of the skill. If the cross wind is very strong - we don't fly simple as that. This system seems to work very well and we loose very few days due to wind direction in practice.

 

To those that fly alone this might sound very regimented. But in reality its all very informal and friendly and we see it as just "routine" so no one worries about it. I suppose its just good manners and when you have many people flying together you have to have some sort of "framework" so that everyone can enjoy themselves in a secure way that isn't likely to hurt any models or people.

 

I am not sure how two pilot boxes would work - presumably you can only change the circuit direction if no one is actually flying at that time? Otherwise you'd have folks flying planes and walking from one box to the other! 

 

Stephen, I'm sure there are really good reasons - but the necessity to cross your strip to get to the pits looks a bit "dodgy" to me. Is there no alternative? Could you not put the pits on the access side?

 

BEB

[Stephen Grigg]

Apparently not,one reason is the Sun and the other that 23 years ago a lady complained that the engines were frightening her horses.As she is on a working farm that was a little surprising apparently.We therefor fly in the field on the other side of the trees hence when a model gets into difficulty you dont see where it ends up because of the trees

[David Turner 5]

Two pilots' boxes ... simple.

 

The pilots choose the box which is at the downwind end of the runway. The two boxes are not used simultaneously.

 

So, when you depart, there is no person in front of your aeroplane. When you touch down, there is no person in front of your aeroplane. You always have the full length of the runway available.

 

When landing, the touch-down point is close to the pilot.

 

This is especially advantageous because it places the model within the scope of binocular vision; an aid to depth perception. As I recall, the best cues are available when objects are no more than about 10 metres from the eye. Beyond that, the ability to accurately judge depth is gradually lost.

[Lee Smalley]

hmm not sure about that david, the whole lenght of the runway is allways available to you, its just if you are able or willing to use it  not sure about the requirement to cross the patch on arrival especially if you are a tad late and people are flying, i can't see why one complaint 23 years ago should stop you from changing the orientation of your patch horses are curious and not scared by model aircraft as long as you don't dive bomb them, the use of good sunglasses negates the sun problem (not that we get too much) i personally think its a reciepe for disaster to have this layout, but it seems to be working so what do i know!  the 2 pilot boxes is okay as long as they are never used at the same time

[Lee Smalley]

is it a case that the people in charge are uncomfotable with changing direction and this is the main reason it has stayed the same?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Yeap, I can see how that works David - my point is what happens if the wind direction changes while models are aloft? With the single box system we simply agree to reverse the circuit. Now you could do that in the double box situation but then surely you are landing towards yourself and toching down at the far end of the strip.

 

BEB

[David Turner 5]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother on 14/09/2010 13:33:43:

Yeap, I can see how that works David - my point is what happens if the wind direction changes while models are aloft? With the single box system we simply agree to reverse the circuit. Now you could do that in the double box situation but then surely you are landing towards yourself and toching down at the far end of the strip.

 

BEB

 

My field is affected by sea breezes. When we do get sudden changes of wind direction (evenings), the winds are always very light; a knot or two. For us, at least, there is never a problem.

 

Realistically, a sudden change from say, a 10 kt headwind to a 10 kt tailwind never happens ... 'cept maybe if you are in the vicinity of a thunderstorm.

 

Are you quite sure that you are not simply searching for reasons to reject the two-box system?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Why should I be looking for a reason to reject anything another flier does? If it works for you great, I'll was only asking you a simple question.

 

BEB

 

PS Changes in wind do happen - if they don't happen to you well you're the lucky one aren't you!

[Lee Smalley]

no just not so sure its not as safe as a single box system in the centre but if it works then so be it i personally prefer a single pilots box as it reduces confusion no one system is flawed its the implementation of that system that becomes the flaw still do not like the idea of crossing the strip to get to the pits though!!

[Stephen Grigg]

I  think your right Lee people not liking change.The day I first arrived,I walked out through the trees to see this beautifull open area in front of me,magical.We then crossed to the pitts to be informed,we fly over there beyondd the trees,PARDON what happened to the nice open space.A no fly area because its behind the pitts.I believe the field behind us belongs to the other farmer(whos wife complained).We dont do set circuits 1  way,and you soon learn there are flyers you dont fly  with,and we have a rule of only 5 models at a time.Having read how other clubs work I have to admit ours is organised chaous but seems to work somehow.I have to admit it is sometimes to busy for me so I just sit and watch.I sometimes wait until most have gone.I also sometimes go on days I know noone will be there and enjoy the seclusion of flying on my own.Mostly the club flies Tuesday,Thursday,Sunday,so the other days are fairly solo,which is good.

[David Turner 5]

If you visit our field, you will find that you may stand where you please, so long as you don't dither on the active. No-one will berate you or demand that you conform. We take the view that, since you are out on your own, you are responsible for your own safety and able to make rational decisions.

 

Similarly, no-one will demand to see your insurance. It's really none of their business whether you choose to protect your own assets, or not..

[Lee Smalley]

well im glad i do not fly at your site ps David your insurance is third party mate it does not cover anything of yours apart from your backside should you hit a child, car, property etc lets see what your attitude is if god forbid that happens !!

[Lee Smalley]

or you could allways go fly in spain,,,oh wait a minute !!!!!!

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Nice one Lee!

 

BEB

[David Turner 5]

Posted by Lee Smalley on 15/09/2010 15:08:20:
well im glad i do not fly at your site ps David your insurance is third party mate it does not cover anything of yours apart from your backside should you hit a child, car, property etc lets see what your attitude is if god forbid that happens !!

 

Insurance is their to protect the assets of the insured. I think we agree on that. If I am uninsured and am sued for damages, the likelihood is that I will lose some of my assets.

 

 

Mind you, if I am a dork and am sued, the insurance company is likely to then SUE ME to recover its losses ... having paid damages to a third party. So, fat lot of good it will do me, I suppose.

 

 

What has Spain got to do with it?

Edited By David Turner 5 on 15/09/2010 15:36:52

Edited By David Turner 5 on 15/09/2010 15:37:36

[David Turner 5]

double post

Edited By David Turner 5 on 15/09/2010 15:34:03

[Lee Smalley]

right lets keep this simple, if you have an accident and seriously injure someone you more than likely will be sued the damages could be horrendous you may have to pay damages such as to keep the injured party in the lifestyle he is accustomed to for 30 years or more, your assets (unless you are david beckham) is unlikely to cover this your insurance covers you against this litigation and the insurance company is unlikely to sue you unless you have lied or have been found to be negligent, to fly without insurance is in my opinion unbelievably selfish and dangerous considering what it actually costs anyway it think this is for another thread

[Aslan]

Flying without insurance is unbelievable......" responsible for your own safety and able to make rational decisions"..... what about the safety of others? Not allowed whatsoever at our patch...... Or any other that I know of. To be party to that carry on is outrageous David (and this is not a personal attack,just an opinion) It's everyones business if you are insured or not........ speechless and highly surprised.

[Tim Mackey]

Back on topic please gents

[Lee Smalley]

stephen would it be worth bringing up the issue at a club meeting or would it not be worth the hassle, Changing the strip round !!

[Stephen Grigg]

Hi Lee yes Pointless,the way round it is go on the way home drive into the field and park behind the pitts and fly my Fun Cub wherever I like because no one is ever there.Its the rebel in me.no one would complain its electric silent and I glide up high a lot!!