Commentary at the Nationals Show Line

[Tony Jones]

Would anyone who attended the Nationals and spent a little time at the Show Line, like to comment on the standard of commentary, bearing in mind that this is the BMFA's premium opportunity to showcase the hobby - not just to existing modellers but to those who might be thinking of taking it up?

 How did you think it compared with the standard at any full size air show you may have attended. 

 If there are no comments I will keep my opinions to myself. Don't want to be in a minority of one - not in public, anyway!

[Slopetrashuk]

You must have an issue with it or else why mention it?

DB sound would still be doing it to this day had the organisers and their ego's not clashed with him and his diva demands some time ago.

I always enjoyed him and I've been at the sharp end of his wit many times too but I've always had the feeling Hammond was reading it from a book and the pilots were all his 'pals'.

There is no substitute for experience on a line like that and whilst  Hammond does his best with what he has. the pace of the line and the alternating prop / jet / prop is at best a little bland. Too LMA and not enough BMFA. Bring back the Woodspring lads I say. They ran a tight ship and put on a good show for us on the demo line in the 90's.

 Andy

[Tony Jones]

Hi Andy

Yes I have an 'issue with it' but that's not terribly important. I was interested to see if anyone else was disatisfied before launching into a rant. Obviously, most are perfectly happy.

However, I agree with your comments in spades. I thought Colin Hammond was appalling, bearing in mind that this is the BMFA's premiere show and the opportunity to showcase the hobby to the general public. 

My complaints:

1. The conducting of one-sided (to the audience) inane conversations with his mates and fellow pilots over the tannoy. The impression given that if you didn't know what all this was about, who was doing it,  and how it was done he certainly wasn't going to bother to explain.

2. The impression given that this was a display given by a closed clique of (largely LMA) pilots purely for other modellers. And if you didn't understand the personal 'in' jokes  - tough luck.

3. Virtually no information about the models and even less about the hobby in general. No explanation of what ARTF means. No explanation of the difference between them, kits, and plan building. No indication of how much the models cost. No information about how - 'if you like what you are seeing here today', to get started.

4. No mention of the other activities that were taking place elsewhere on the airfield. Apart from a message for the pilots taking part in the free flight extravaganza that they must attend  a briefing at 1730.

Just think how interesting and informative the showline commentary could have been if conducted properly. I think the BMFA - presumably it is they who select the commentator - should be ashamed. And before you ask, yes I do think I could do better. In fact, having commentated occasionally at club motor race meetings in the past, I KNOW I could do better - a lot better. But the BMFA is a totally closed 'old boys' network, and Hammond is obviously well in.

Enough? 

[Slopetrashuk]

It is my understanding that the commentary is put out to tender each year.

Andy 

[John Rickett 102]

It sounds on the face of it as though Tony Jones would make an excellent commentator and I'm sure the BMFA would welcome his gesture of volunteering, it is certainly not a closed shop. Don't forget though that the commentator has to have some kind of track record and must also supply all the equipment necessary. 'Fees' usually run to nothing more than travel expenses.

The reason that LMA members are to the fore on the display line is because they have volunteered, anyone who is competent can volunteer but you have to accept that, on the display line,  people generally want to see something just a little different from everyday 'club' models. The volunteers will get nothing in return except the satisfaction that they have tried to entertain the public.  

It would of course be possible to fly trainers and show people that this is the way to get started, not on the slippery jets they are currently admiring and aspiring to, I fear though that the display line wouldn't hold interest for two seconds!

[Slopetrashuk]

DOn't forget that the commentator is never really there for the people who 'know' what they ar looking at. He is there for the people that don't. THAT is the great strength of DB who is a 'broadcaster' rather than an interested modeller who decided to extend his business after it had served it's original purpose of helping his club raise some funding to buy their patch......

[Tony Jones]

Gentlemen

 Thank you for your comments. If I may reply individually...

Chessiegolf, Certainly if the show line guys just flew trainers and the whole thing was put on for the benefit of potential aeromodellers, it would be very boring. I wouldn't suggest that for a minute. My moan is that NONE of the commentary was tailored to such people; it was purely by a modeller (and I accept that Mr Hamilton is a LMA modeller of some repute) for other modellers. And particularly for modellers who were personally acquainted with the show pilots. There were lots of obscure jokes about their personal traits that meant nothing to 99% of the people present.

As a modeller, I was greedy for real information about the aircraft flying - whether they had been built from a commercially available plan for instance, or based - as some were on ARTFs unavailable in this country. But I didn't get any.  

The most unprofessional incident in the two hours I was there occurred during a display of a gorgeous, large scale Hereford (IIRC), during which Mr Hamilton wittered on about motorcycles he had owned. 

Jetsome, I'm with you but I suppose at the Nationals, where the pilots are segregated from the public, a commentary is necessary. In fact, I would be extremely useful if it were conducted professionally. 

Andy,  I agree 100%. Let's hope next year the BMFA get a proper commentator. 

[John Rickett 102]

Well, it seems as if the problem is resolved. Tony KNOWS he can do better, a lot better, and has the experience on which to base that statement. As there really isn't a closed shop it would be remiss of him not to volunteer for next year's event, along with anyone else who KNOWS they can do better - if those who can do better don't volunteer, they can hardly complain when we are presented with the best of those that do!

I look forward to a fresh voice at next years Nats. Oh, and as its bad form to get people's names wrong, the commentator was (is) Colin Hammond. I must admit that his Kentish accent doesn't fall as easily on the ear as the polished voice of Dave Bishop and his knowledge of aeroplanes may not be as comprehensive, but the chap is trying to fill a void when others won't step forward......he shouldn't be castigated for that.

[Tony Jones]

Oops, sorry about the name booboo.

I'd be happy to volunteer but I'm sure others who are a lot more knowledgeable than me could do even better.

 Not only that, but if one is expected to provide the equipment and only be reimbursed for travelling expense, it's not a very attractive deal. You get what you pay for, and it appears the BMFA is not prepared to pay for a high quality commentary at this, the most high profile event of the year and an important showcase for the hobby. Sadly, I can't say I'm surprised.

[Tim Mackey]

Im pretty sure I heard that years ago DB sound actually charged for the service...which is, I think, to be expected. For too long IMO, this sport has been accustomed to willing enthusiasts being prepared to work for nothing, and its time they got real. Its one thing marshalling a flight line, or a TR control tent, but sitting on top of a bloomin Transit van, trying to please a knowledgeable "cast" AND an ignorant public of all ages for hours on end in all weathers is another kettle of swimmy thingies. I think he and others like him deserve a decent reward, after all, the admission charges are not exactly cheap to most of these shows these days.

[Tony Jones]

Amen, Timbo.

[Tony Jones]

No, just someone who would provide a couth, professional commentary with  information about the hobby in general for the benefit of the general public, some interesting details about the  the aircraft putting on the displays for us modellers, promote other areas to visit during the day, etc, etc.  In other words the sort of thing you would get if you visited the National showpiece of virtualy any other recreational occupation - or any full size airshow.

To achieve that, the BMFA need only select a knowledgeable commentator who can actually commentate, provide some sort of temporary stand for him to sit on and fork out a few quid for a P.A system. Too much to ask? Probably. 

[Tim Mackey]

I remember back in the days when I flew at public shows as part of my then local club team, we were always asked by DB or whoever else had taken up the mantle, to provide a short written summary of ourselves, and the model being flown, in order that they could announce during our slot those particular details, to "enlighten" the public. It seemed a logical and sensible way to do it....except of course Dave Bishop being Dave Bishop occasionaly cocked up the batting order, and I was once described as a veteran of the hobby brilliantly flying a Mick Reeves Gangster

.....  I was flying a 72" cap 21,   and I was 24 yr old at the time

Mind you the Gangster flyer was well chuffed - NOT - when Dave announced his slot and how old he looked for just 24 .....LOL/ LOL / LOL

Ah happy days......

[Tony Jones]

Jetsome,

But now I come to think of it, a celebrity commentator could be a big attraction. My vote would be for Natasha Kaplinski. But she would have to be on a podium where we could all see her.

Seriously though,  your idea of getting some of the show line pilots to have a go is excellent.  To be fair, I think CH tried during this last show but no one would comply. I think it's something that would have to be pre-arranged. Maybe a friend of the pilot of the model - who knows the necessary details - could be persuaded. Having more than one commentator would provide a break from the same old voice all the time.

However, ANY reasonably experienced modeller not intimidated by a microphone could explain to the gen. pub. how all models used to be built from kits or plans but now there is the ARTF alternative, promote the hobby as an educational and fascinating pasttime that need not cost a fortune, etc, etc.  And explain  bit about glow engines, petrols and electric and so on.

As to money, I'm sure people would give their time for free, so the BMFA would only need to fork out for the rent of the sound system. 

[Tony Jones]

Jesome

 You are right. What I'lll do is copy this thread to the BMFA and see if I get a response. On the day I was there my final action was to make my feelings known to a BMFA committee member in their tent but I'm afraid I can't remember who.

Anyway, thanks for your helpful input.

Best wishes

Tony

[Tim Mackey]

Tony....good luck with getting a response from the BMFA - but in my experience, dont hold your breath

If you can comment over the mike as well as you scribed for the mag recently, then you have my vote

[The real Ron Truth]

All commentators should remember the old proverb..

" Never pass up a good opportunity to shut up".

[Richard Acland]

I have just come across this discussion and I have to say that it really struck a cord with me. Having attended countless model shows over the years the number of good commentaters that I have listened to can be counted on two fingers.

This years Nationals air show commentry was an embarrassment to the extent that I had to move to a point where I couldn't here it.

 What these people should remember is that we are not interested in how many pals they may have on the flightline,how many " in" jokes they can cram in,what car/motorcycle they drive or any thing to do with their wife or kids. What we want is information on what is going on in front of us presented in a lighthearted  and informative style. When that is done SHUT UP!! until there is something else interesting to say. 

                                                                                                      R.A.

    

[Tony Jones]

R.A

 Thanks for your support. This thread has gone a bit cold now and I've decided that it's a waste of time communicating with the BMFA. You can bet your life that someone has drawn their attention to this thread, but the haven't bothered either to defend themselves or make any positive contribution. 

[Mouldy]

In my experience, 15 years+ ago, it was always a waste of time contacting the BMFA, (SMAE as it was then).

Wont bore you with details, (unless you want me to!!!), but I vowed that I would never join that crew again!! 

[Tim Mackey]

Timbo puts out his tasting machine and tests the air temperature, resisting the temptation to say "I told you so !"

Damn! - resistance is futile

[Tony Jones]

In a fit of madness I have copied all the posts and made them up into a chronological Word document and emailed it to the BMFA. No names appear against individual posts so everyone but me can sleep soundly in their beds!

I'll let you know if I get a reply. Again, suspension of breathing in anticipation would probably be unwise.

Thanks to all that have contributed.

Tony 

[Tim Mackey]

I once wrote to them about a complete untruth which had been published in the BMFA handbook, and the BMFA news regarding how the Spektrum 2.4Ghz system operated. Their reponse ( which took 3 emails from me to even arrive) was " thanks, yes we know its wrong, but we dont consider it serious enough to do anything about immediately, but will print a correction in future issues". They never did.

I personally felt that their writings were very misleading, and shameful in their ignorance and lack of research. It suggested that the Spektum 2.4Ghz system was pretty well immune from any interference because " if any interference od signal loss occurs, the system immediately switches to a different channel"

This, as anyone who actually understands the DSS system deployed by Spektrum is completely wrong.

Edited By Chris Card - Moderator on 17/05/2010 09:14:28

[Mouldy]

AMEN to that!

[Slopetrashuk]

When you say 'They' you must appreciate that 'They' is as much 'You' as it is 'Them'....

To whom did you send it?