Greybeard Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Well the building is finished, all I have left to do is to work out how to mix the aileron channel to another so that I can arrange aileron differential and generally set the control throws. It’s not as nice as Jim’s as my covering skills seem to have deserted me in the 20 years since I last used covering, in this case Profilm. In fact quite a lot of my skill set seems to have gone missing. It weighs 1.8 kg with a 4s 3700mAh battery, so I think that it should have a reasonable aerobatic performance. Now all I need is some calm(ish) weather to find out how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I’ve a couple of point regarding the build of this kit that may help others following. I have installed my 4s 3700 mAh flight battery right up against the engine bulkhead even so the CofG is about 7mm behind the recommended position, this may suit me later but for the first flights I shall add nose lead to pull it forward to the “correct” position. I’ve build the model as a tail dragger so those keeping the tricycle undercarriage may avoid this problem. I needed to construct a motor mounting box of about 35mm to get the motor forward to the correct position, if I had thought about it a bit more I could have extended the battery position forward over this which would have alleviated the weight problem. I don’t know about you but I hate having to put lead nose weight in; yuk! The instruction photos for the aileron build are wrong as they suggest that the ribs should be fitted at 90 deg to the aileron leading edge whereas they need to be angled to align with the wing ribs. I had to fit 5mm balsa end caps and sand them to shape because I didn’t spot this early enough, which was annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob H Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Hi GB Sounds good, and quick building too. Maybe a picture sometime. I should not bother about adding nose wight you will forget its there after a few flights !! Thanks for the tip re the aileron. Just get the CG right. All the best for the maiden flight. Still enjoying the weather on my Hols. Will let you Know when I get back. All thr best, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbledon99 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Posted by Greybeard on 03/10/2012 15:47:36: I’ve a couple of point regarding the build of this kit that may help others following. I have installed my 4s 3700 mAh flight battery right up against the engine bulkhead even so the CofG is about 7mm behind the recommended position, this may suit me later but for the first flights I shall add nose lead to pull it forward to the “correct” position. I’ve build the model as a tail dragger so those keeping the tricycle undercarriage may avoid this problem. I needed to construct a motor mounting box of about 35mm to get the motor forward to the correct position, if I had thought about it a bit more I could have extended the battery position forward over this which would have alleviated the weight problem. I don’t know about you but I hate having to put lead nose weight in; yuk! The instruction photos for the aileron build are wrong as they suggest that the ribs should be fitted at 90 deg to the aileron leading edge whereas they need to be angled to align with the wing ribs. I had to fit 5mm balsa end caps and sand them to shape because I didn’t spot this early enough, which was annoying. You are not the only one. I too built mine at 90 deg. I then offered them up to the wing and kicked myself. I've been building a long time so 's*it happens'. Still can't bring myself to put an electric motor up-front. Just doesn't seem right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwyn Gee Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Maybe you should look toward the good old US of A for inspiration, they've electrified a few gangsters in their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Posted by Alwyn Gee on 03/10/2012 23:32:29: Maybe you should look toward the good old US of A for inspiration, they've electrified a few gangsters in their time. goodin alwyn.... ... ken anderson ... ne..1 ....electrified gangsters dept.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob H Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Good one Alwyn. Can hardly type for laughing........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I did a balance check today and found that I need 130g of church roof at the motor position to get it to balance level so the model will weigh 4 1/4 lbs or nearly 2 Kg in old English before it takes off. So any one else constructing a similar model may like to consider extending the nose by a couple of inches and gettng the battery as far forward as possible to counter this. I will be interested to hear how others have got on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I flew mine today and am happy with its handling although there are several points to attend too. I think the nose weight I installed is too much so I shall remove half before the next outting. The undercarriage is too short for the 12" prop and could do with being an inch longer and swept forward to the leading edge of the wing. As the ground is getting softer I will have to fit slightly larger/wider wheels so that the initial roll is easier. Other than that it flies very well on half throttle with more power obviously needed for vertical stuff. I couldn't explore that aspect very well because of the thick mist that I was flying in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob H Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Thanks for the info and "Weldone". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 More notes for those that are following. I replaced the undercarriage with spare Wot4e undercart which I cut in half and screwed to the wing plate. The wheels are still not quite far enough forward but the prop clearance is much improved. I made my second flight with this model during the week on a clear blue sky day. Pulling up to vertical produced a very long climb with no sign of slowing down, so that target is achieved; it did however need considerable down-elevator to maintain the vertical. I then checked level flight having trimmed for straight and level flight on half throttle, going to full throttle resulted in a 20 degree climb, so I estimate around 2 or 3 degrees engine down-thrust is needed. On the third flight, after enjoying a flight that was a little too long I ended up checking out the dead-stick (flat battery) downwind turn characteristics and snapped the nose off! So that resolves both the down-thrust and nose weight problems since I can fix both with a new nose job. Back to the work bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbledon99 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Hi, Any chance of a couple of pictures of the underside please? I'm interested to see how you mounted the wing servos and the aileron push-rods. Also keen to see your servo installation and how the tail push-rods exit at the rear. Was thinking about a Pull-Pull rudder myself. Might also fit a rod between the elevators as the 'twin rod' looks a real pain with the servo up-front. Thanks P.S. Would also like to see the completed model the right way up too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Posted by Wimbledon99 on 15/10/2012 21:42:29: Hi, Any chance of a couple of pictures of the underside please? I'm interested to see how you mounted the wing servos and the aileron push-rods. Also keen to see your servo installation and how the tail push-rods exit at the rear. Was thinking about a Pull-Pull rudder myself. Might also fit a rod between the elevators as the 'twin rod' looks a real pain with the servo up-front. Thanks P.S. Would also like to see the completed model the right way up too I used the flat type of servos for the aileron so only the horn shows through a slot in the covering, they are fixed in place with the double-sided tape that came with the servos. I used Sulivan snakes for the rudder and elevator having coupled the two elevator halves together with a carbon fibre rod. There is no reason why closed-loop wires should not be used on the rudder provided a ball-raced servo is used. I too would like to see the complete model again – either way up; when the new nose is finished I shall take a couple of snaps and post them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo565 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 GB, I see you are using ball joints on the rudder / elevator,be wary,dont ask me how i know JImbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I can't think of a linkage type that I haven't had fail on me at some stage but I do prefer ball joints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbledon99 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Thanks Greybeard. I might go with the Sullivan Snakes myself after looking at that. Hope your nose gets better soon Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Whalley 2 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I realise I am coming in late to this thread,however I picked up on Greybeard's comment regarding converting to a taildragger.I converted mine,it looks so much better.Note,place the main u/c well forward,I had to do mine a second time due to it being difficult to taxi cross wind.The weight on the tailwheel is light and therefore it weathercocks alarmingly.All the best Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Posted by Frank Whalley 2 on 17/10/2012 17:16:29: I realise I am coming in late to this thread,however I picked up on Greybeard's comment regarding converting to a taildragger.I converted mine,it looks so much better.Note,place the main u/c well forward,I had to do mine a second time due to it being difficult to taxi cross wind.The weight on the tailwheel is light and therefore it weathercocks alarmingly.All the best Frank. You're not wrong, mine thinks it's a mole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Baird Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hi, I built one last year and have had a number of flights with it, I have used 4.5AH 4s lipo, Emax 283205 mounted on studs that fit the holes for the original motor mount. This was to get round the front u/c which I made fixed rather than steerable. As mentioned it flys on rails and as slow as you like. I mounted the elevator and rudder servos at the back used Savox mini, they work well but noisy.I replaced the cowling as mine split with a wooden one and I needed just 1oz of lead to balance. Wheels are a bit small for our grass strip so may change to a larger size. All up weight was 4lb. Hope this helps Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redex Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hi Graham, Can you supply any photos of your Gangster - as I too have an Emax 2832 which was in a Wot 4, but now looking for a new home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Horsman Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Hi all,I recently purchased a plan built Gangster style trad built model for £25. Good old Ebay! It has a 1310mm venneerd foam wing with 1040mm balsa/ply fuse. The bare airframe comes in at 1164 g and I'm ading 3 standard size servos for the controls. I plan to use an 870kv Eflite Power 25 which weighs 190 grams and I've some 3300 3s packs that I can use. Will use alloy u/c in a tail dragger configuration with a simple tail skid as I fly from grass. Seems to work well enough on my Super Slinky E (see my photos) Am I safe to assume 30-35% of chord for the c of g as it's coming out around there at the moment? Andy Edited By Andy Horsman on 11/05/2013 07:58:25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Horsman Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Well went for the maiden this morning. No rocket ship but with a ready to fly weight of 2020 grams that's to be expected. Nice and stable without any bad habits. Could do with some more aileron throw but that's an easy fix. Here's an unedited vido of the maiden. I'd welcome any observations **LINK** Andy Edited By Andy Horsman on 12/05/2013 09:43:57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob H Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Very nice Andy. Is that elastic you have on the undercarriage ? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Horsman Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Thanks Bob the model had originally been built as a belly lander but I wanted to try a tail dragger configuration. There was a lipo access hatch underneath between the cowl and wing l/e but this was where I wanted to fit my u/c. I beefed up that area from inside with some softwood square stock and inserted 2 dowels through the side of the fuse resting on top of the softwood.. The u/c is just banded on using 4 bands - 2 front to back and 2 crossing over. I was going to add two crosswise bearers either side of the u/c to keep it straight but it's quite tightly attached so I didn't bother. I cut a new access hatch on top. I tapered the sides so it can't fall in but on my 2nd flight it did pop off so I need to add a catch or tape it down. It easily takes a 2200 3s pack and the esc and I reckon a 3300 3S pack will fit. This should extend the flight time to around 4 mins. A 4s pack would certainly wake her up so that's an option in the future. On taking off, there was a little swing to the left which I caught on my second flight and it did come in hotter than I expected. I don't think I'll fly again at my local park as she needs a bit more space for the landing leg approach. Hopefully I can avoid the bounce next time She had a good glide and had no bad habits at all. Andy Edited By Andy Horsman on 12/05/2013 11:27:18 Edited By Andy Horsman on 12/05/2013 11:27:46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob H Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Hi Andy, Many thanks for the info. I'm still building my Ganster 63 Lite. Just the wings are built at the moment. Things keep getting in the way, like holidays and stuff! Will post a picture of it sometime, hopefully this year! Cheers, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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