Keanonwuk Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Hi to all, I am a complete newby to R/C and this site. I have wanted to come back to modelling for many years, now retired, here I am. As you would expect I have done most things back to front. However, I have purchased a very old Svenson Westerley kit for my trainer which requires a 2.5 to 6cc engine. Two questions: 1) I purchased a second hand Mk11 Irvine 40 (6.5cc) engine, could I get away with this? Or look elswhere, if so what recommendations? 2) Could I replace the IC option with an electric motor, now I don't have a clue here, is there a table somewhere that lists the electric option of an IC engine? Sorry if these are silly questions. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Welcome to the forum Keanonwuk.... No such thing as a silly question so ask away....I am a bit confused though......you say you are a complete newby but wanted to come back to modelling....surely you can't be both?? To answer your specific questions I'm not familiar with the model so can only comment generally but if it suggested a 2.5 to 6cc motor then you might find the Irvine a tad powerful.....modern motors are a lot more powerful than the older crossflow units. That said you will have a throttle so you can always reduce the power. Weight might be an issue....a modern ball raced 40 will weigh a lot more than a 2.5cc diesel of yesteryear!!! Yes...pretty much anything can be electrified & will fly well......Electrickery is very different to IC in terms of "what is required" however...the best method is to forget IC exists & start from scratch. Might I suggest you take a quick look in the electric flight section of the forum...some great tutorials there that will familiarise you with the concepts & terminology......then we can get stuck into the questeions!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keanonwuk Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Hi Steve, thanks for your reply, yes I should explain I am a complete newby with respect to radio control, I used to build all sorts of plastic models as a lad and moved up to balsa woood and tissue gliders along with my school friends (those were the days a motorway now exists where we once used to fly). Many thanks for the advice I will have a look at the electric flight section. With respect to the Westerley I did some digging on Google and the model comes from the 1970s and was very popular with clubs of the day for training new pilots, I purchased it from a popular auction site, in fact there is now a second Westerley kit for sale so I assume the vender bought up stock from a now closed model shop. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Yes I had a quick surf after I'd replied & found the model....looks very nice. I do wonder if an ARTF trainer might be the way forward...these are very cheap fly well & come without the emotional attachment that spending hours building the thing brings......your Irvine will fit one of these very nicely.. Maybe learn on an ARTF & build the Westerley as your second model. Another thought that occurs is that if you were to go the electric route you would need to modify the way the kit is built....nothing too dramatic but mounting motors & batteries is different to mounting engines & fuel tanks if you get my meaning. I'm not trying to put you off but you should be in possesion of all the facts before you make a decision. Also are you planning to join a club? Clubs are a huge help in assisting beginners & will teach you to fly as well.....I would suggest you get in touch sooner rather than later...they may well stop you making an expensive mistake!!! Also do make sure you are insured before flying. Whilst not a leagal requirement you'd be very foolish to fly without it. Most flyers are members of the BMFA through their affiliated clubs & this confers third party insurance.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 A Google search produced some info on this model. 55inch span it says. Seems people used a 40 LA, or a .40 four stroke etc so the Irvine is a bit more powerful but would be OK if it works reliably. That's the thing when you are training - an engine that starts easily and runs without cutting out. An advantage of electric. Visit your local club, ask various people their opinion of your engine's condition. ( avoid the club knowall and dont worry about the Irvine haters ) See what others at that club train on, maybe electric is favoured, maybe hated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 kc makes a good point....there are some flyers who loathe IC & others who believe electric is the work of the devil but take it from me that both work extremely well. It comes down to what you like & enjoy doing....there is no "right" or "wrong". I'll declare a personal allegance to IC pwer but I also fly a lot of electric models & readily admit the advantages....they just lack a bit of "soul" to me.....funny things us humans.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 It's a club 'thing' some clubs ignore electric completely, some do both, some are electric only due to their site. You have to find out and join the one that is right for you . As regards ARTF if you want to be just another new member then OK, but if you want to be accepted as a real aeromodeller build your own plane ( Westerley ) You demonstrate your own craftsmanship and dedication to the hobby by building your own -it's a badge of honour, a rite of passage. Make sure you buy the right radio gear. Secondhand is not recommended unless you know the person selling. New is far better and almost mandatory at some clubs. 2.4Ghz is the only one to buy now. Some clubs only allow 2.4, most allow 35 mhz though but still prefer 2.4. Any of the major brands are OK but clubs have preferred make for training to match the instructors radio Check locally, also ask which Mode they train on ( Mode 1 throttle right or Mode 2 throttle left ) and buy radio to suit. Find your local clubs from the BMFA website. ( or give us your area and maybe someone here will advise you ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keanonwuk Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Many thanks for the replies and yes reading both leads me to think that I need to sort out a local club (I live in the North West, Blackpool area). Unfortunately, I have been impatient (a trait of mine for most of my life, doubt I'll change now). I have purchased a second hand 35mhz transmitter which came with three receivers and crystals (a Futaba T7CP) which appears to function as it should but won't be much use if the club only accept 2.4 kit. And of course there is the issue of the instructor's kit which I hadn't considered (got it wrong again dad!!!!!). So I think that is where I need to go next. I shall build my Westerley and look forward to flying her, and yes I will without doubt crash her but building has always been the primary buzz for me I love machines. Once again many thanks for the replies and the food for thought. Keano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I have to say it's so much better to ask at your local club first! This happens all the time. Fortunately there are not many clubs that are 2.4 only and good condition 35 mhz is still OK. Needs careful range check etc and nicads checked or replaced. Be certain to find out about 35 Mhz frequency control protocol used at the club before you switch on and shoot someone down. If you didnt get a manual it is availble online. Start anothe thread asking for clubs in the Blackpool area and someone from there will reply I am sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Eee bai gum lad ah'll go t' foot of our stairs.....another Lancastrian lad... I fly at the Skelmerdale club but probably a bit far away from you. There's an excellent club at Weeton...you'll be sure of a warm welcome there...... There is nothing wrong with 35MHz equipment...it is still legal & used by many people but 2.4GHz equipment does bring many advantages....in the way that more modern "kit" often seems to. One of these is an almost total immunity to the induced "electrical noise" you often get with Electric power systems......mainly from the high speed switching of the ESC. 35MHz can occasionally suffer in this regard. I have had electric models fly very successfully on 35MHz & electric models that suffered terrible interference on 35MHz.....there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to it. So if you do go for the electric option you may encounter problems but then again you may not. Glow engines on the other had create no induced electrical noise........not that I'm trying to influence you at all.... Edited By Steve Hargreaves - Moderator on 23/05/2013 15:04:55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hargreaves - Moderator Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Sorry meant to add the link to my earlier post.....BFRCMS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keanonwuk Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Thanks again, I shall have to go down the local club route I think first, then decide on ic or electric, both will have their problems I know, something tells me electric may be easier as the Irvine didn't come with a user manual and I have had no luck sourcing one on the internet, so I would need to speak with someone about how to use/run/lcheck and generally look after it and what fuel to use. I looked on the electric flight section and was pleased to see that the very first article fitted the Westerly like a glove, only problem I can see is to work out what size of propeller to use, will have another look around the site to see if I can find any clues. Getting quite excited now really looking forward to learning how to fly, should be a real thrill if I can get my Westerly airborne. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kc Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Dont worry about a manual for the Irvine, any good club will have plenty of people who will help you start it. Straight or 5 percent glow fuel and a 10 x 6 , 10 x7 11 x6 or 11 x7 prop will work.. Best combination is found by experience. Needle valve setting is found a bit by trial and error. Basic setting is often about 2 turns open from fully closed position. Be careful if the carb body is plastic. For electric prop size must be the appropriate size that suits the motor, battery & ESC combination. Very critical for electric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keanonwuk Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Many thanks for that, really grateful for your help. Keano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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